Field Target is an arms race.

[Bramezy]

I hate shoot-offs too, you gotta win that thing on the field!!! LOL



If you shoot at the same target 100 times you won't get any better, but if you take 100 in match shots you will get better.

What is 'practice'?

Just "shooting" isn't practice, practice is building and going through the entire routine from approaching the box to leaving the box. It is also shooting on/at targets/lanes you are not overly familiar with. True practice is match simulation without a match environment. I know for myself if I take four shots at a target at distance in wind I can continue to hit it more than I might miss. After the first three shots i'm not actually learning anything about the wind that I didn't already know after the second shot. You get one or two shots per target in a match, so practicing with more shots than match shots isn't going to help (all this assumes the shooter is relatively proficient and not learning wind or figuring dope).

I think Scott S hinted at this but didn't take it to the conclusion. Over practicing can be harmful, possibly detrimental in the moment, but after a rest you can see that it elevated your abilities in at least one way if you self review (usually more than one). But in that moment when you hit the wall it definitely felt like it was hurting more than helping. After you workout you are exhausted, weak, sore, it is only after you fully recover do you see/feel the benefits.

Being efficient when you are practicing is important, having things to work on is key, and knowing what to work on is critical.

I've been at this since 2011 and every once in a while I will make some fairly drastic changes to see if it helps or hurts. Practice time can be helpful for evaluating the effects of these changes so the trial and error period isn't happening during a match. But I can't just shoot at the same target from the same position, I need to simulate a match to know if it's helping or hurting.

When I was getting my clicks for the Worlds I shot in the typical knees up position as well as the deadman position to see if one worked better than the other. I was more stable in the deadman position but it took longer to find the target, in the knees up position I was pretty much on target and in my natural point of aim before I even looked into the scope. I decided to go knees up for the Worlds so I could have some additional time to read the wind and I needed that time since it was my first WFTF match and there was lots of wind. Sometimes a seemingly better thing may not be better.

The above only works if you have a good foundation. If you rifle can't shoot around/under 3/4" benched at 55 yards indoors (30-50 shots at the same target) you are going to have a tough time doing well. No amount of practice, dope, ranging or even natural talent is going to correct the issue, you'll just get incredibly and increasingly frustrated and angry. A good rifle will naturally focus your practice, a bad one will derail practice, you will be chasing the pellet all over the target without resolution.

We haven't covered the mental game yet. If you want to go hardcore "With Wining In Mind" by Lanny Bassham is excellent, and good for life in general. Positive reenforcement is key, negative reenforcement is bad. If anyone has other books or talks that they found helpful please post. I watch/listen to a lot of PRS stuff, Miles to Matches is a great podcast about the mental/physical game of shooting and much of the mental/self-analysis stuff can be applied to FT.

I agree completely.

 

[cavedweller]

I have to say, in my own personal experience its not even the equipment that trumps all but good equipment with ACCURATE DOPE AND RANGING trumps all. I have to ask this...how much better can you be sitting on a bucket and sticks today vs doing it 1,000 times? I don't believe that just because you sat and shot 1,000 times your going to hit that 3/8" KZ 100 more times than if your ranging was off or dope was off and you corrected it.

I have experienced this myself as well as heard it at every single match I have attended. Yes you need an accurate gun but the gun that holds MOA vs the gun that holds sub MOA are still equal on an 1.5" paddle. Its the guy that ranges it at 48yds vs the guy that ranges it at 54yds that makes the difference every time.
Again, my own personal experience. I practice shooting tiny stuff, 1/4" and such to test my data! I move and I'm shaky a bit. But I have missed more shots from bad data over it being a $3,000 gun vs a $600 gun. Yes wind and environmental factors are always there. Remove them and your left with data! Some spend more time acquiring gear rather than perfecting it (GUILTY!!!!). I don't care what gun you use as long as its X accurate at whatever distance. If your data is off, you aren't hitting everything!
Ill say this, I have different setups like some of you. I have a Marauder with Hawke scope. The gun is not the holding back factor, I am with my lack of perfecting my data at close and long range and ranging. I also have a Wolverine with Sightron S3. Its more accurate than the Marauder but ive missed more shots with the Wolverine because my data was off.

There's something to the whole beware of a guy with 1 guy vs a guy with 100 guns. That comes into play here. Those that spend the time with good enough equipment perfecting their data and ranging will win hands down. Hand anyone a setup thats dialed and they will do amazing! Sub 12fpe is a different story in the sense of wind and body positional. Same deal, if your data is off, no hit targets!

Not tooting my own horn, I haven't done anything special or that hasn't already been done but to prove my point, the gear is only part of it, but I feel the data is the highest ranked piece of the puzzle here. The guys that "practice" are perfecting data or practicing off hand. I get the offhand practice, nothing can substitute that.

Yes, thats me shooting the Marauder in which I tied for 2nd at the Burning River GP 2024 and was in a shoot off against a Red Wolf and Thomas. I suck at positional and pressure so naturally I lost it but it wasn't the guns fault. That was nerves mainly. I suck at all shoot offs!

Ask Tyler P, his courses are long typically and he does this as the long shots seem to be the toughest. Good data is key here.

Rambled enough here, hope it makes sense. Practice off hand and perfect your data and you will place in the top every time. Learn wind and you will win every time lol.



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I create variable free data from a bench locked in shooting from 10-55 yards in 1/2 yard increments to create my dope for each gun. Always a no wind day. No matter how cheap or expensive the scope or gun.

But before I start the above process I shoot several 10 shot groups at 55 yards… if the gun can‘t hold a group within 1.5 inches I either get it tuned or move on so I don’t waste any more time on it.

I don’t think anyone can truly trust their data/dope unless they’ve gone through the actual ”taking the shots” process.

After this process it’s time to get out the sticks and buckets as I KNOW its not the gun screwing up…

My Crosman HFT Challenger @$750.00 holds its own against my Redwolf @$3200. on the bench, but that all changes when those same two guns are outside in the sticks… but I haven’t put my Sightron S3 on the Challenger yet for a true test because I love how lightweight it is.

”edit” for me the heavier gun is much more stable in the sticks but a detrimental impact for me shooting offhand. I hit way more positional KZ’s with the Challenger but way more seated with the Redwolfz; yes I have a few.

 

[Franklink]

I create variable free data from a bench locked in shooting from 10-55 yards in 1/2 yard increments to create my dope for each gun. Always a no wind day. No matter how cheap or expensive the scope or gun.

But before I start the above process I shoot several 10 shot groups at 55 yards… if the gun can‘t hold a group within 1.5 inches I either get it tuned or move on so I don’t waste any more time on it.

I don’t think anyone can truly trust their data/dope unless they’ve gone through the actual ”taking the shots” process.

After this process it’s time to get out the sticks and buckets as I KNOW its not the gun screwing up…

My Crosman HFT Challenger @$750.00 holds its own against my Redwolf @$3200. on the bench, but that all changes when those same two guns are outside in the sticks… but I haven’t put my Sightron S3 on the Challenger yet for a true test because I love how lightweight it is.

Do all your shooting with your ft gun from your in-match position (s) and your scores WILL improve. That includes working out actual dope. Every airgun I've ever shot will shoot to a slightly different place depending on the position from which it's being shot. So figuring out dope from a bench and then hoping it's spot on from stool and sticks is optimistic at best. It'll be close sure, but not perfect.

Of all my practices and methods related to field target, I feel that shooting almost exclusively from my actual in-match positions is the biggest factor to my successes.

 

[Bramezy]

Do all your shooting with your ft gun from your in-match position (s) and your scores WILL improve. That includes working out actual dope. Every airgun I've ever shot will shoot to a slightly different place depending on the position from which it's being shot. So figuring out dope from a bench and then hoping it's spot on from stool and sticks is optimistic at best. It'll be close sure, but not perfect.

Of all my practices and methods related to field target, I feel that shooting almost exclusively from my actual in-match positions is the biggest factor to my successes.

I shoot from bench for all info and range and then test from sticks to see if it’s the same. Did this enough to know there is no difference for me. Plus im so unsteady even on sticks that I can’t get the consistency and precision I can from a bench in which I’m still moving a hair. I was taught this way and it works for me.

 

[cavedweller]

Do all your shooting with your ft gun from your in-match position (s) and your scores WILL improve. That includes working out actual dope. Every airgun I've ever shot will shoot to a slightly different place depending on the position from which it's being shot. So figuring out dope from a bench and then hoping it's spot on from stool and sticks is optimistic at best. It'll be close sure, but not perfect.

Of all my practices and methods related to field target, I feel that shooting almost exclusively from my actual in-match positions is the biggest factor to my successes.

Seldom disagree - but nope - ol shaky bodies are just that, as are cheap wobbly sticks or testing fiddly pellets.

If dope is to be exact then variables must be removed.

When the end user is preparing equipment first things first = remove all human interface errors so you can rest assured your equipment and pellet choice is 100% spot on.

#2 YES - get out and shoot and shoot and shoot and if something is off, you know its human interface error not your exact dope.
Having the luxury of an indoor to outdoor bench/range and setting up over 30 different rigs has taught me this lesson again and again. It’s driven home the understanding that me, the shooter is the weakest link.

Although my 68 Year old self has no plans to win anything, I do want to best myself every single time i get planted behind my scope. That said, looking through a locked in gun and scope is no substitute for developing an established well rehearsed routine. Nor will one realize that their weakness maybe physical rather than equipment. Also finding the best scope and reticle choices is better done outside from the sticks!!

These days I’ve shifted my focus to the variables created between the gun and sticks - wow - you’d think those $100 plus trigger stick gen 3’s would be rock solid, but nope; they rock at the neck with any shoulder movement from the shooter…

My latest arms race…..
Finding support equipment which helps minimize my human interface errors AKA the seat and sticks and anti glare hat and the right shooting glasses and on and on.
The more comfortable the shooter the more consistent the shooter.

This ARMS RACE is all part of the fun…
as it should be.

 

[cavedweller]

PowderBurnt mentioned a class built around a particular rifle, like 10m. It is a pretty good analogy but there is mission creep there, too. I started with a recoil less rifle ( FWB 300s), then came SSP and a FWB 602. And finally, at least for now, PCP (FWB 700). There are an infinite amount of bits and bobs to add to your rifle but the rifle itself is within fairly narrow parameters. I have spent as much on diopters and front sights as a good scope. Where there is a wallet somebody will have the next best gadget for you no matter what the competition.

Mike

Brilliant

 

[Franklink]

Do all your shooting with your ft gun from your in-match position (s) and your scores WILL improve. Put that statement to the test and I guarantee you'll be happy with the outcome.

Yes, trigger sticks are wobbly. I commented about trigger sticks being wobbly when I shared photos of my home-made shooting sticks a while back.

 

[steve123]

It's a catch22.
If you do your dope off a bench, at the very least, reconfirm the dope, "in position" (especially your zero first) Don't assume........

A few weeks ago I was experimenting with different ways to hold my Thomas HPX and had a .2 mil difference at 25Y which is my zero distance. That's enough to lower my score at UFT by 15-20% if I were to guess. Remember you're shooting at circle shaped KZ's so if you are off in the vertical and you don't guess the wind almost perfectly you'll be getting more splits on the face plates.

 

[thomasair]

You can get all your clicks or holdovers from a bench...then just reset your zero from position.

 

[Franklink]

The position-specific dope/zero is part of the value, but there's also the "practice" factor when you dedicate trigger time to shooting from the position you'll use in a match.

And there's more to trigger time than just the trigger finger. And in a game like field target where your body is at least somewhat supporting that gun....muscle memory is a real thing. Even with the unsteadiness that might accompany advanced years, training your body to time everything correctly so that the cross hairs are right where you want em to be when the trigger breaks is extremely beneficial.

 

[thomasair]

If you can't hold dead still...you're better off getting your numbers from a bench and adjusting zero. Then spend as much time with your accurate numbers practicing from position.

I'm an advocate of getting your zero, near, and far numbers and then using a ballistic calculator to fill in between. Jerking around all day setting out targets every yard is a waste of time and is no more accurate. Those that haven't actually checked one method against the other will disagree, though.

Mike

 

[Franklink]

If you can't hold dead still...you're better off getting your numbers from a bench and adjusting zero. Then spend as much time with your accurate numbers practicing from position.

I'm an advocate of getting your zero, near, and far numbers and then using a ballistic calculator to fill in between. Jerking around all day setting out targets every yard is a waste of time and is no more accurate. Those that haven't actually checked one method against the other will disagree, though.

Mike

I do both Mike. When I set up a gun the first time I do both concurrently. I'll use what the app spits out as a starting point and then refine it by shooting at that distance. And this is where paper comes in handy. I really prefer shooting reactive targets, but paper is king for seeing that your holdover or click value is half a pellets width high or low. I've yet to find an exact match from a ballistic app to the actual results that I'm seeing by moving targets. And no amount of tweaking scope heights and BCs and temps and elevations in the apps will make it perfect. Can get plenty close enough to win matches, but I can't get the apps to give me a ballistic curve that corresponds perfectly with the pellet on pellet accuracy that I expect from a gun that I'm gonna compete with. And realistically, the pellet on pellet is only out to about 26-28 yards. Past that the wind starts to confound things.

I give a lot more value to shooting the distances than I do to the trajectory curve supplied by a ballistics app. And much of that is the confidence gained from KNOWING my dope data is accurate, not hoping it is. And the whole process constitutes practice as well.

Where we're at here is to do what works. I'm not saying anybody else's methods are wrong, just sharing what I've personally found in case somebody could benefit from it.

 

[thomasair]

Your trouble at the long distances is likely because you are not calculating in aerodynamic jump. If you are getting your clicks in even a very slight left to right wind...all of your long clicks will be lower than they should be.

 

[Franklink]

Your trouble at the long distances is likely because you are not calculating in aerodynamic jump. If you are getting your clicks in even a very slight left to right wind...all of your long clicks will be lower than they should be.

My comment on the pellet on pellet stopping at about 26-28 yards was just being realistic about shooting pellets in the wind.

The curve issues from the apps is that even from say 10 to 11 yards it's not perfect. And changing the parameters to make it fit one distance makes others not match. Again, close? Yeah, but never perfect. I'm much more concerned about being half a pellets height off for the 3/8" or 1/2" kill zones than I am for the 1.5" kzs.

I'm pretty happy with the process that I've worked out. My two most recent sub20 matches, different gun/scope at each....
50/52 at the AZ State match (only shot on day one). And my misses were: first offhand shot that I forgot to hold over for, and a stool/stix shot that I yanked right and hit at 3 o'clock. Both my fault.
51/52 at the local "Founders Cup" where I missed an offhand shot.

So, 101/104 for 97% at my last two matches and none of those 3 misses was ranging/trajectory related. Just brain farts.

 

[steve123]

Using SHOOTER app I'll be off at the closest distances slightly so I'll memorize 10Y and 11Y but by 12 the dope is lining up okay as well as the farthest distances. Especially at 10 and 11 I use a tape to the middle of the barrel because that's where I place the gun between the cones when I'm shooting a match. But if near as I can figure it's say 10.5Y I'll take off a few clicks from 10Y.

 

[thomasair]

I don't try to get horses to drink anymore. .

If the zero, near, and far method doesn't work for you… It's because you're doing it wrong or simply don't understand how to perform the method properly. Garbage in garbage out.

Mike

 

[thomasair]

Using SHOOTER app I'll be off at the closest distances slightly so I'll memorize 10Y and 11Y but by 12 the dope is lining up okay as well as the farthest distances. Especially at 10 and 11 I use a tape to the middle of the barrel because that's where I place the gun between the cones when I'm shooting a match. But if near as I can figure it's say 10.5Y I'll take off a few clicks from 10Y.

You should never be off at the close distances or the far distance because those are the two distances you have to get exactly right for it to fill in the other ones properly.

 

[Franklink]

Just to clarify, I shoot actual at 1 yard increments from 10-22 or so, basically to the beginning of zero, and then 5 yard increments from 25-55yards. And that is more than enough data to score well at matches.

 

[Franklink]

I don't try to get horses to drink anymore. .


Mike

More than one way to skin a cat.

 

[thomasair]

The proper way to perform this is to get your zero first and set your turret to zero. Then empirically obtain your 10 yard and your 55 yard clicks the absolute best that you can. Then simply use chair gun to fill in the blanks. The first step in using chair gun is to get your 55 yard clicks and your 10 yard clicks in the chair gun program to exactly align with what you obtained empirically. To adjust the clicks at 55 yards in chair gun you must alter the BC...to adjust the clicks at 10 yards in chair gun you must alter the scope height. You have to do a little juggling back-and-forth as one may affect the other slightly, but you will eventually come upon a scope height and BC ....along with your speed that will give you the exact same clicks that you empirically obtained at 55 yards in 10 yards After doing that everything in between will be exactly correct .