Does it exist? Slash, SWFA SS second gen?

[Franklink]

Two semi-related questions in one....

Is the image quality/optical clarity any better with the second gen SWFA SS than it is with the first?

Recently deescalated the scope situation on my Ghost (@cavedweller, Rudy, you were right). The Falcon X50 was just too big and heavy of a scope to put on a gun with an inherently large bore/scope height. It just messed up the balance and made the gun harder to shoot. So, off came the X50 and on went my spare, a first gen SWFA SS 20x. And I'm surprisingly liking everything about it, except the image quality.

So, assuming the second gen SS is still murky and less than clear...

Does a scope exist with the following parameters.....
1. First and foremost is Clear glass (Athlon Midas Tac clarity or better and I'd be happy here)
2. 1/10 mil click values that are as trustable as the SWFA
3. Mil reticle of course
4. No longer than 14inches
5. No heavier than 22ounces
6. Objective bell of 42mm like the SS would be fine (does not have to be a big honking 50mm
7. Fixed power of at least 20x would be fine
8. If variable power, must be ffp
9. Would prefer non-Christmas tree reticle
10. Does not have to have illuminated reticle
11. Does not have to have a zero stop
12. 30mm tube (with the weight restriction, no 34mm would likely qualify anyway)

I'm tempted to just go with another 6-24 Midas Tac, but they're a bit bigger/heavier than I'd like for this rifles uses.

Suggestions?

 

[boscoebrea]

This should be interesting.You say you would like a fixed 20x but would settle on 6-24 Midas.
14" Um, that may be the hard part. The Midas is 14.6" I will check out my scope catalogs.

 

[Franklink]

This should be interesting.You say you would like a fixed 20x but would settle on 6-24 Midas.
14" Um, that may be the hard part. The Midas is 14.6" I will check out my scope catalogs.

I've got four of the 6-24 Midas Tacs, and they're generally my favorite scope. I very well might end up with another one. But just wanted to pose the question to see if there's a scope that I'm not aware of. There's not a huge difference in size and weight between the 20x42 SWFA and a 6-24 Midas, but I'm just really liking that slightly smaller/lighter aspect of the SWFA. It doesn't have to be fixed power, but I don't mind if it is if that's the trade for the size/weight.

In other words, IQ of the Midas Tac in the size/weight of the SWFA 20x would be perfect.

 

[boscoebrea]

It is a lot easier finding a variable-power scope. I will look through my catalogs again, but I had no luck finding a fixed-power 20. I did see a fixed Leupold 24 x, but it is an older model.Nikon Monarch3 5-20x44SF 14.1" 19oz. Good luck,I do think there are scopes that meet your criteria, it kinda fun looking for them

 

[MongooseV8]

ArKen EPL4 is pretty close. 50MM Objective and 23.8oz I think are the only issues.

 

[cavedweller]

Two semi-related questions in one....

Is the image quality/optical clarity any better with the second gen SWFA SS than it is with the first?

Recently deescalated the scope situation on my Ghost (@cavedweller, Rudy, you were right). The Falcon X50 was just too big and heavy of a scope to put on a gun with an inherently large bore/scope height. It just messed up the balance and made the gun harder to shoot. So, off came the X50 and on went my spare, a first gen SWFA SS 20x. And I'm surprisingly liking everything about it, except the image quality.

So, assuming the second gen SS is still murky and less than clear...

Does a scope exist with the following parameters.....
1. First and foremost is Clear glass (Athlon Midas Tac clarity or better and I'd be happy here)
2. 1/10 mil click values that are as trustable as the SWFA
3. Mil reticle of course
4. No longer than 14inches
5. No heavier than 22ounces
6. Objective bell of 42mm like the SS would be fine (does not have to be a big honking 50mm
7. Fixed power of at least 20x would be fine
8. If variable power, must be ffp
9. Would prefer non-Christmas tree reticle
10. Does not have to have illuminated reticle
11. Does not have to have a zero stop
12. 30mm tube (with the weight restriction, no 34mm would likely qualify anyway)

I'm tempted to just go with another 6-24 Midas Tac, but they're a bit bigger/heavier than I'd like for this rifles uses.

Suggestions?

I'm following this with great interest.
I have several potentials but lets see if @steve123 has more indexes in his brain's rolodex than i do.
Hmmm ... rolodex.... i think i just dated myself and confused some "younger" shooters.

@Franklink ... have you put your eyeball behind the Sightron 4-20x50 S-Tac? It almost tics every box for you except as listed:

weight 25.6 oz - yes i know you'd like 22 oz but 3.6 oz is meh.
length is 15" - i know you'd prefer 14" but 1" is meh
.1 Mrad with 23.3 Mrad range of adjustment
no christmas tree - I prefer the MH4 reticle
ffp with IR
image quality, at least to my aging eyes is very good (at least for field target)

$can be had for $570. on sale or less in classifieds.

S-TAC FFP4-20x50 Zero Stop

Built for precision target shooting and hunters. The Sightron's S-TAC 4-20x50 rifle scope with zero-stop tactical turrets and illuminated reticles delivers superior optics and accuracy when it counts.

sightron.com

next up is a recent acquisition:
Athlon Ares 2.5-15x50 BTR Gen 3 FFP / IR
although a christmas tree type reticle everything else on this scope is to my liking

weight 27.3 - 5.3 oz more than you prefer.
length 13.8" - score
.1 Mil
amazing turrets
glass very good
disclaimer - i have not put a parallax wheel on one yet, but i anticipate it will spread out the numbers similar to all the other Athlons.

Ares BTR GEN3 HD 2.5-15x50 APRS13 Riflescope

When you want the best features from the top-tier rifle scope but not break the bank, look no further than the new Ares BTR line of scopes.

athlonoptics.com

Although this is a 12X scope it is a much understated sleeper especially for HFT / EFT pistol class:

US Optics TS12X.
Magnification: 3-12x
Eye Relief: 3 inches
Diopter: +3, -2.5
Parallax Adjustment:10yd – Infinity
Field of View @ 3x: 100 yds = 30.41′
Field of View @ 12x: 8.33′ meters
Eye Relief: 2-3 Inches
Objective Lens Diameter: 44mm
Tube Diameter: 30mm
Overall Length: 9.6 in
Ocular Lens Diameter: 34 mm
Weight: 18.11 oz
Reticle Illumination: Non-Lit
Finish Color: Type III Hard Anodized Matte Black
Elevation Knob: Locking 1/10MIL
Elevation Travel: 30 MILS Total Travel
Windage Knob: Locking 1/10MIL
Windage Adjustment Range: 25 MILS (12.5L/12.5R)
Reticle: Second Focal Plane Triplex or First Focal Plane MHR

TS-12X | US Optics

www.usoptics.com

 

[rangur1]

I have a possible match for you. ZeroTech Thrive HD 6-24x50. Barely over your requirements. 26 oz , 30mm tube, 14.5" long. Good glass and brightness. Non illuminated version runs ballpark $550

 

[wolfmangreg]

Following with interest. Always loved the SWFA SS, but admit it lacks in image quality. Eyebox gets a bit touchy for me beyond 12x too.

Will second @cavedweller recommendation to check out the S-TAC 4-20 FFP ZS (model 26016). Just a bit out on some of your specs, but not terribly so. Good image quality, & love the MH-4 reticle.
Only thing I can't vouch for (yet) is #2 on your list. Used holdover with it until a few weeks ago. Now mounted on a rimfire that will be used for UFT, so the elevation turret is getting a workout. Cautiously optimistic, but reserving final judgement until it gets through at least one season with no drifting.
SWFA SS is my gold standard for that criterion. Have a 12x nearly a decade old, untold thousands of clicks & never, ever drifts. Had a 10x that was just as good, and have a spare 12x that I temporarily mount to a rifle if it's having POA/POI issues, to rule out/confirm scope as the problem. I trust the SWFA that much. To be fair, no experience with truly high end scopes (think Zeiss/Swaro etc.), but have had scopes 3-5x the price of SWFA SS that eventually drifted or became unreliable, long before reaching the punishment level that old 12x has taken.

 

[Motorhead]

US Optics TS12X.
Magnification: 3-12x
Eye Relief: 3 inches
Diopter: +3, -2.5
Parallax Adjustment:10yd – Infinity
Field of View @ 3x: 100 yds = 30.41′
Field of View @ 12x: 8.33′ meters
Eye Relief: 2-3 Inches
Objective Lens Diameter: 44mm
Tube Diameter: 30mm
Overall Length: 9.6 in
Ocular Lens Diameter: 34 mm
Weight: 18.11 oz
Reticle Illumination: Non-Lit
Finish Color: Type III Hard Anodized Matte Black
Elevation Knob: Locking 1/10MIL
Elevation Travel: 30 MILS Total Travel
Windage Knob: Locking 1/10MIL
Windage Adjustment Range: 25 MILS (12.5L/12.5R)
Reticle: Second Focal Plane Triplex or First Focal Plane MHR

TS-12X | US Optics

www.usoptics.com

Ding ding ... we have a winner
It now resides on my Theoben MFR Hunter class FT pistolla

 

[steve123]

I don't have but a few suggestions and they don't match your criteria. A few are best guesses.

The MT 4-16's went on close out pricing.

The Helos G2 4-20 I'd for sure rather have than the SWFA 3-15 or the fixed 20x which I've have/had. IQ is decent, etc.

That new Ares BTR G3 2.5-15 is such a killer scope! Too me it came out great. Or perhaps the MT G2 which I suspect also being about the same in quality.

A March 4.5-28. Seems the closest but expensive.

 

[Coinwa]

The “US Optics” TS12x isn’t a real “US Optics” scope…. It’s a Vector Veyron with USO badging.

I’ve never had an issue with an SWFA optic, either in regard to image quality or function…. but I’ve only owned about two dozen of them over the past 15+ years. Admittedly, I’ve not spent a lot of time behind the fixed 16x & 20x models (even though I’ve got a 16x sitting here brand new).

The Athlon Helos is a solid optic in its own right.

Are you planning on dialing for elevation, or using the reticle? If you’re planning to dial for range, there’s only about two or three sub-$750 scopes I would trust, and the SWFA line is one of them.

 

[Franklink]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

@cavedweller er, no I have not looked through the Sightron STAC you mentioned.

@rangur1, the "ZeroTech" brand is a new one to me. I'll have to do some research there.

@steve123, thanks for the suggestions, and you know me too well when you noted that the March is $$$. I'm not much of a scope dude. I'll use what works, for the most part.

@Coinwa, yes, combination of dialing turret and holdovers, mostly dialing. And I agree, the SWFA SS line doesn't have many faults, just that dang IQ. As for tracking, their turrets are much more reliable than they've got any business being, given the price.

Just snapped this photo to show size comparison....

Athlon Midas Tac 6-24 on the top
Falcon X50 in the middle (yea, it's a telescope)
SWFA SS 20x on the bottom

 

[cavedweller]

I have a possible match for you. ZeroTech Thrive HD 6-24x50. Barely over your requirements. 26 oz , 30mm tube, 14.5" long. Good glass and brightness. Non illuminated version runs ballpark $550

Thanks for all the suggestions.

@cavedweller er, no I have not looked through the Sightron STAC you mentioned.

@rangur1, the "ZeroTech" brand is a new one to me. I'll have to do some research there.

@steve123, thanks for the suggestions, and you know me too well when you noted that the March is $$$. I'm not much of a scope dude. I'll use what works, for the most part.

@Coinwa, yes, combination of dialing turret and holdovers, mostly dialing. And I agree, the SWFA SS line doesn't have many faults, just that dang IQ. As for tracking, their turrets are much more reliable than they've got any business being, given the price.

Just snapped this photo to show size comparison....

Athlon Midas Tac 6-24 on the top
Falcon X50 in the middle (yea, it's a telescope)
SWFA SS 20x on the bottom
View attachment 544751

Cole, would you like me to send you an S-Tac to try? @Franklink

 

[cavedweller]

The “US Optics” TS12x isn’t a real “US Optics” scope…. It’s a Vector Veyron with USO badging.

I’ve never had an issue with an SWFA optic, either in regard to image quality or function…. but I’ve only owned about two dozen of them over the past 15+ years. Admittedly, I’ve not spent a lot of time behind the fixed 16x & 20x models (even though I’ve got a 16x sitting here brand new).

The Athlon Helos is a solid optic in its own right.

Are you planning on dialing for elevation, or using the reticle? If you’re planning to dial for range, there’s only about two or three sub-$750 scopes I would trust, and the SWFA line is one of them.

That is an interesting rebranding tidbit - how did you figure that out?
as I own both of these scopes the U.S. optics seems much more robust

 

[Franklink]

Cole, would you like me to send you an S-Tac to try? @Franklink

Thank you Rudy, very generous offer. But let's hold off for now.

I think I'll try the next UFT match with the SWFA on the Ghost, and make a decision from there.
The EFT Grand Prix I won last summer was with an SWFA 20x on my Veteran Long, so they're plenty capable....just a matter of how much time I spend looking through the optics on the Ghost .20, and whether or not I can live with the murky image as a trade for the size and dead-nuts reliable turrets.

I've got enough guns and scopes at this point that I can't shoot them all. So I'm constantly going through the mental gymnastics of the trade-off between buying more scopes or having a gun all ready to go, doped, etc. The sillyness to me is buying more equipment, just to have yet another gun/scope combo to also just sit there "ready to go." But man o man I really like to leave a scope/gun/projectile all set once I've done the work to tune it and dope out the trajectory.

 

[cavedweller]

Thank you Rudy, very generous offer. But let's hold off for now.

I think I'll try the next UFT match with the SWFA on the Ghost, and make a decision from there.
The EFT Grand Prix I won last summer was with an SWFA 20x on my Veteran Long, so they're plenty capable....just a matter of how much time I spend looking through the optics on the Ghost .20, and whether or not I can live with the murky image as a trade for the size and dead-nuts reliable turrets.

I've got enough guns and scopes at this point that I can't shoot them all. So I'm constantly going through the mental gymnastics of the trade-off between buying more scopes or having a gun all ready to go, doped, etc. The sillyness to me is buying more equipment, just to have yet another gun/scope combo to also just sit there "ready to go." But man o man I really like to leave a scope/gun/projectile all set once I've done the work to tune it and dope out the trajectory.

my experience has been that finding the right scope for a particular Airgun is like pairing cheese and wine; sometimes what goes well together is a complete surprise
and other times what you thought would go perfect together is a uncomfortable disaster.
But the end goal is UFT?
Hmmm?

 

[Mr.H]

That is an interesting rebranding tidbit - how did you figure that out?
as I own both of these scopes the U.S. optics seems much more robust

There has been much speculation about this as they are so similar in size and controls. But I've seen no definitive proof that this is true. Vector offers a 5 year warranty on their scope, whereas US Optics has a lifetime warranty.

 

[Coinwa]

There has been much speculation about this as they are so similar in size and controls. But I've seen no definitive proof that this is true. Vector offers a 5 year warranty on their scope, whereas US Optics has a lifetime warranty.

It may not be a total “rebrand”… but they are definitely kissing cousins. My point is: just because it says US Optics on the side, doesn’t mean it’s a US Optics optic.

 

[Franklink]

my experience has been that finding the right scope for a particular Airgun is like pairing cheese and wine; sometimes what goes well together is a complete surprise
and other times what you thought would go perfect together is a uncomfortable disaster.
But the end goal is UFT?
Hmmm?

Not specifically long range field target, but yes, the intended use is for the .20 Ghost, my primary long range gun these days. So it'll probably see a lot of prairie dog use this summer as well

 

[Coinwa]

Scopes that work well for PB long range pursuits, are the same scopes that work well for airgun long range pursuits. There’s no shortcut simply because the ranges are compressed.