Sorting out the Delta Wolf HP 0.22

So, I and a few friends and acquaintances got our Delta Wolf HP'S in 0.22 around early July from the first SA shipment with much excitement... And every single one of us was horribly disappointed. 

Especially for me, the gun was both the most expensive and the absolute worst shooting rifle I had ever experienced, despite having a wonderful trigger and shot cycle as well as producing superbly consistent velocities (despite some genuinely beta level software at present) particularly in advanced mode. 

I suppose the near complete lack of coverage of the 0.22 DW should have rung a few bells. And if you look back at Matt Mannings review his group was completely subpar with shots stringing diagonally. Only Richard Saunders/Alpha Militaria seems to have managed to show one decent group on camera with 25gr redesigns.

Now I can say with absolute conviction that the gun is magnificently designed and engineered from the bottle to the transfer port, with near edgun level rigidity of the frame. Yet it still produced 'groups' like this at 20m regardless of pellet or velocity (excuse the first target- it was shot at my parents place):

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And scattershot like this with the best performing 20m pellet and velocity at 50m:

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These groups remained unchanged whether the moderator was on or off the gun (I ran some risks with the neighbors firing this thing off without one as in stock form the shroud does not do a thing). I was ready to send the gun back and initially I actually did, but curiosity and a need to know why got the better of me, along with the suspicion it would be a long long wait until anything got sorted out, so I asked for the gun back to run some tests. 

I was initially completely convinced we'd all somehow received out of spec barrels from LW in out batch of Delta's and so contacted everyone I knew with a gun to check their twist rates and chokes as well as see if their barrels had tight spots or burrs etc, but as it turns out the barrels are actually okay, albeit so unbelievably pellet and velocity fussy that they just about completely negate to usefulness of all the tuneability of the gun. Shooting completely bare barrel with the chrony removed and disabled in the software (following setup with 25gr to similar velocities to an HP Red wolf) improved things significantly too.

So that left the shroud and chrony setup. In stock form the chrony connects directly to the end of the barrel via an M14x1 muzzle thread. The chrony has four very small holes (see the below pic) that lie just about flush to the edge of the muzzle when the chrony is threaded on fully. This is the only connection between muzzle and the rest of the shroud. Thereafter the closed ~10mm diameter and roughly 10cm long closed chrony tube begins, ending approximately 5mm from shrouds large m20 endcap. The result is virtually no air stripping and hence the megaphone like effect of the shroud which makes the gun so loud. 

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The other issue I noticed is the shroud support. The collar that houses the chrony connector is firmly attached to the barrel via grubs screws. The CF shroud slips over this and is held in place by two further grub screws, that only provide forward back and rotational stability, but don't clamp the shroud down firmly at all. Not a big deal but unfortunately the only forward support for the shroud is orings around the flexible plastic chrony itself, resulting in some quite significant 'whip and wobble' in the shroud during the shot cycle.

So figured given the apparent absence of any other design flaws it was likely some combination of the above causing the issues. To my mind the most likely reason being massive turbulence caused by the long chrony tube funneling the muzzle blast into the pellet path. Especially as most people that I've spoken to that have had any luck at all getting theirs to shoot straight have said that the higher the reg pressure, the better, presumably since the valve can then close much sooner and reduce muzzle blast for a given velocity.

While considering finding and machining a new LW barrel I happened to notice that the breech ends of the Delta Wolf and FX barrels are virtually identical.

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All it took was to polish 0.015mm off the brass port and the bands on the silver colored steel part of the fx barrel and it fit like a glove. Didn't even need to remove the FX orings.

Because the FX barrel is 14mm OD vs the original barrels 15mm I initially 3d printed a small collar to ensure it was centered and snug at the front part of the frame. 

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Shooting bare barrel at 30m the results were instantaneous with tiny one hole full mag groups. And the best bit was I didn't lose any velocity with the 500mm barrel I used at all compared to the stock 590mm barrel, presumably mostly because of the larger transfer port. So, iffy barrel sorted.

I had a 1/2inch unf to m14 adapter machined (using a 500mm barrel was necessary to have enough space in the OEM shroud for this) along with making 3d printed bushings for the shroud/chrony collar and reassembled, and found the groups were back to being poor.

So I had a friend machine a new adapter that was also an air stripper, with the baffle part also supporting the shroud instead of the chrony. By happy accident he also discovered that a 15mm OD copper plumbing pipe perfectly fits over the fx barrel, making it a perfect match externally to the OEM barrel.

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Anyway after hating the gun and wanting to throw it in the river, the results have been spectacular. Below is a full mag at 30m and it's confirmed effortlessly sub moa out to 120m, which is as far as I've had a chance to shoot so far as it's incredibly windy at the moment. It's virtually impossible to get this gun to do anything but drill holes now, plus I get the versatility of the different liners.

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Fringe benefits of all this are a massive reduction in muzzle report now that there is an air stripper in there and the shroud is being used effectively, as well as fact that I haven't had to clean the chrony tube in well over 1500 shots.

Of course I should never have had to do all this on the 'world's most advanced airgun' but it is a very new platform and it's pretty easy to forget the huge amount of work and myriad upgrades it took to get my and many others' impacts to the level they are at now. And the delta is already shooting at the same level. 

It seems to me that the Delta Wolves that shoot really well stock (and get actual youtube/social media coverage) are the sub 12 0.177 and the 30cals. I can only guess it's because the former has so little air behind the pellet that turbulence isn't much of an issue, and that the latter hurls such big heavy chunks of lead that their shear inertia may just shrug it off? As far as I can see the 0.25's also seem to strongly prefer the heavier jsb's, just maybe since they can also shrug off that muzzle blast? Of course they're also seemingly limited to the no longer available mk1 too, which is likely barrel related. So this could be useful for them too for that reason.

Anyway I'm very happy with my Delta Wolf now and hopefully this might help anyone that's struggling with theirs but can still see the potential. It took a while to get right but now I know how it's actually a very quick and easy solution. 

My next plan is to install a superior heavy liner, a dual transfer port and change the stock probe to a pin probe, just to see what gains there may be. It never ends :)

Cheers!

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I had a .30 DW. It wasn’t any better, and had a number of other problems. I appreciate you showing us what it took to get your gun shooting correctly, but I would never put that much work into repairing a brand new $3,000+ airgun. I knew the software was something I would never be able to fix on my own. Seeing this post makes me very happy that I returned mine to my dealer for credit only, after 3 months of nothing but problems.

*Actually, I had 2. Dealer replaced the first. The second was worse than the first.
 
Marcos,

Thank you for the detailed report on the .22 Delta Wolf. This is a gun that I am/was interested in after owning/shooting a .17 RedWolf that I could not get used to the almost 4ft/1.2M Length.

Interesting that Daystate would even let this disaster out the door! I most certainly am not interested in paying $3400++ for an airgun then have to spend many Hundreds of dollars more to get it to stay on paper. No wonder there as been so little talk of this model.

Again thank you for your timely and honest account of your experience with the .22 DW, you may have just saved a few people from an expensive and Very Frustrating buying experience!



JoeWillie
 
Haha
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must have been a bad day for the ART crew. Nice working diagnosing and fixing the problem.

Strange usually .22 is such a strong caliber for Daystate.

True! It's usually the bulletproof choice when buying a daystate.

Haha it was your stx edgun leshiy 2 post that finally pushed me to sit and post this! If I had posted it a few weeks ago it'd have been a much angrier post, but it's kinda won me back over now. 

I had a .30 DW. It wasn’t any better, and had a number of other problems. I appreciate you showing us what it took to get your gun shooting correctly, but I would never put that much work into repairing a brand new $3,000+ airgun. I knew the software was something I would never be able to fix on my own. Seeing this post makes me very happy that I returned mine to my dealer for credit only, after 3 months of nothing but problems.

My pleasure.

I can totally understand that. I nearly did exactly the same but I guess I'm a sucker for punishment haha. Plus the dealer didn't have anything else that really piqued my interest. Maybe if the leshiy 2's they have just got in stock now were available at the time I'd be shooting one of those instead of talking about the delta!

Marcos,

Thank you for the detailed report on the .22 Delta Wolf. This is a gun that I am/was interested in after owning/shooting a .17 RedWolf that I could not get used to the almost 4ft/1.2M Length.

Interesting that Daystate would even let this disaster out the door! I most certainly am not interested in paying $3400++ for an airgun then have to spend many Hundreds of dollars more to get it to stay on paper. No wonder there as been so little talk of this model.

Again thank you for your timely and honest account of your experience with the .22 DW, you may have just saved a few people from an expensive and Very Frustrating buying experience!



JoeWillie

Glad to help.

It really seems like a silly design blunder that should be exceptionally easy to fix to implement at a factory level, and the rest of the gun's design has lived up to the hype. At least my example has. 

So hopefully this post will become redundant soon, but who knows. Sometimes these companies really do some utterly inexplicable things. The problem with the old daystate mags in the RW/Pulsar/Wolverine comes to mind. They vehemently denied that there was any issue and shortly thereafter released a mag that specifically fixes that exact problem, even at the expense of anti-double load. Lol oh well!
 
Thanks for the post! Being on the wait list since early spring for DW .22 with possible availability Of July/August which I doubt will happen. Considering I have Red Wolf HP and it is great but the lack of availability and hence lack of DW units in the field I’ve been thinking I’ll wait till it is a more mature product.Your post affirms some doubts I already had in my gut. Time will tell.

The Brocock Commander Magnum has been on my radar for a while 😀
 
I applaud your determination and troubleshooting skills but a $3400 gun should not require the customer to alter the gun just to get it to shoot correctly. Adding insult to injury, I imagine that Daystate will now void your warranty too.

Thanks @Hawkeye69 :)

Quite possibly they might try, but since I technically haven't done anything at all except for moving the completely user removable chrony over onto a different barrel that happens to have an air stripper built into its adapter, they'd be playing pretty fast and loose with their reputation if they did do something like that...
 
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@Blejda

Mine was only tested to make sure power levels were up to spec and came with a sheet stating tested velocities with JSB beasts over 5 or so shots. No target with groups or anything like that was provided.



Don't know about the whole barrel thing. As I mentioned they shot okay for a friend with the shroud and chrony off the gun, once that perfect velocity and pellet was used. The use of an FX barrel was really by chance as due to dimensions it turned out to be extremely convenient. No doubt they're absolutely fantastic barrels and as I've said I'm super happy both with performance and the added flexibility, so it'll take a major development for me to consider changing back, but I suppose they do come with their own (to my mind minor) things to deal with. However, there are plenty who still prefer solid barrels. Competition never hurts either and I'd love to see airgun barrel makers pushing each other more. CZ are always up there and LW can make excellent stuff as long as manufacturers get their specs right AND hold their feet to the fire. I will say that I haven't had a hint of poi shift etc with an stx in this gun and I think it's largely because of how rigid the overall frame of the gun is. There is never any pressure or torque transferred to the barrel however you hold or rest the gun.



I really like the idea behind the ART project, but have to wonder if the decision to aim for the 25gr monster rd's with their 0.22 poly barrels isn't part of the issue since they seem to be of slightly bigger outer diameters than the other 0.22 pellets that jsb makes (remember the stx pellet B liner that made it nowhere?) as well as almost a semi slug in terms of stability, to paraphrase centercut. Not hard to imagine a barrel designed specifically around them may not do so hot with a lot of other projectiles.



I've found the monsters also tend to be the jsb pellet with the most variance in quality, with some truly awful batches.



Maybe the answer to the whole barrel side of the issue is to take the RTI route and have specific high and low power optimised barrels? Daystates normal non HP barrels have a history of being exceptional.



Cheers



Greg 
 
LW sent JSAR a batch of out of spec barrels when the Raptor was in the process of being created. It took them a while to figure that out and some guns (like mine) were sent out with one of these barrels. They made good for it and only a lot of lost time was factored in.

I took the chance of buying a 177 Wolverine "R" (regulated) when they first came out and were untested like your Delta Wolf. Untested in field and practical use is what I mean. I got lucky and even though my gun may have been the first or one of the first sent out once they hit our shores, it turned out to be a jewel. It too, like the Delta Wolf was a new design, but it was based on a time proven gun, the standard, unregulated Wolverine. The Delta is an entirely new concept with what appears to be growing pains. I only hope the kids at Daystate see your post and learn from it.
 


https://youtu.be/61V_7SwLeKI



Another dud DW.

Yeah I spoke with him a bit in the comments round the time I was still thinking all this out and just getting started with the above. 

Some of his issues, such as the loose/jiggly cocking lever were present on mine but was a simple matter of slightly snuggling up the screws that attach the rail to rest of the frame. It's now rock solid and hasn't changed. I don't know about that whole business where he talks about his probe having slight forward/back play - mine has no such thing.

The safety doesn't have an unacceptable amount of play at all. It's simply the ball detent moving in and out as you shift positions and is completely fine and as you'd expect.

The huma reg on his seems to be a real dud if what he says is true. Mine has been rock solid with zero creep and less than 3bar variance from a full fill to near set pressure. Granted I may be lucky in this regard as I don't get the same temperature related reg pressure change some guys on this forum have mentioned either.

The accuracy part - from what I can see and as he describes it he's having the exact same issues I did, presumably for the same reasons.