I hate regulators

I have to agree for the most part. If the regulator is set for the lower pressure range of the hammer weight designed for then it works pretty well. Obviously not all guns are equal so it all of depends, regulated guns are sooooo much easier to tune so I see the appeal and I also regulated my crosman 1720T and it shoots awesome. 


to your other point it does increase number of parts that could go wrong but it really isn’t that bad.

So do I .. I’ve found a light hammer, short stiff spring and proper valve spring can give near regulated results and easy power adjustment. That being said, I’ve never owned a regulated gun.. and have seen some incredible shot strings with them.

USFT is one of the unregulated guns out there, low pressure (1500 psi) and is able to get 40-50 shots within 10-15fps pretty easily.

I keep my unregulated rifles unregulated. Once the sweet spot is figured out your good to go. No need in making it something it wasn't designed to do. I dont mind regulated rifles that are simple to tune such as the RTI rifles.. so easy to set up. So much easier and quicker than other brands. 

I have one factory regulated rifle, the DAR G3. It's pretty consistent, but I would agree if you can get your springs and ports/pressures right for your barrel length, no need for a reg. I never regulated any of my 2260/disco pcp builds and I would have a nice tight ES in their power curve. Finding the pellet it likes and gives the tightest spread is also part of it all.

I have a huma ready to drop in my Kral Mega and I'll probably do that this weekend after I get a full shot string to compare with. Hopefully I can increase my shot count dramatically and not lose much power. It's set up with a 16" 177 barrel doing 16 fpe and I know it's getting at least 56 shots in that range already. If I can tune it for 6 mags/84shots in that power range I'd call it done. If it makes it any quieter, it'll sound broken lol. Running a full shroud with an air stripper and 8 Mrod baffles, all I can hear now is a click and the pellet hit.

We shall need to agree on Not agreeing ..... At least if one shoots for score or needs shots to land where aimed with any consistency over many shots taken.



Hunters and For Score shooters are at opposing ends of the requirement spectrum pretty much.

It is always better to use any machine according to especifications aligned to the design.

A non regulated rifle is designed to work NON regulated. 

I really still keep wondering why an earth ppl keep valve return springs.. unless you have balanced valve you dont really need one. So much to gain and that spring have only one purpose and thats to ease up fill from totally empty. Its amazing how much that junk obstructs airflow and how much better your valve works without one. What comes to opening forces it has really little to do with return spring.

We shall need to agree on Not agreeing ..... At least if one shoots for score or needs shots to land where aimed with any consistency over many shots taken.



Hunters and For Score shooters are at opposing ends of the requirement spectrum pretty much.

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He did score well recently in a 100 yard bench rest competition with his unregulated Krale Bighorn. https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/first-outing-for-the-kral-bighorn-audad/#post-1262390

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No interest in regulated guns, in the past I would have bought some of the Eastern European offering if only they also came with an Unregulated version,

As it stands I passed on guns I like a lot just because they are Regulated.

In my humble opinion, a well regulated gun is mostly about the skill of the installer. For my own use, I have found that an unregulated gun is easier to keep working and in tune. But I don’t shoot competitively. I do have a couple of good quality regged rifles and like them just fine too.

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Not related to the thread, so sorry. But that has got to be one of the worst no blue sky range setup I've ever seen. Is that like a 6" window to shoot through?

The slots are there to limit muzzle elevation.



There is a populated area within 2 miles of the backstop berm, and the match is hosted at a gun club where they shoot powder burners.

It limits the use of mechanical front rests depending on their height, but it is really a pleasant place to shoot.

If you understand the qualities of a regulator, and it supports your use, it's well worth it. If you don't, and it doesn't, then just shoot and be happy without it.

SlugmasterABC said:

I really still keep wondering why an earth ppl keep valve return springs.. unless you have balanced valve you dont really need one. So much to gain and that spring have only one purpose and thats to ease up fill from totally empty.

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The valve spring plays an important role in the valve's self-regulation characteristics. True, it is less important in a regulated PCP than it is in a conventional PCP. However no regulator is perfect...they are subject to a number of causes of pressure variations like creep, temperature-induced pressure rise, and an output pressure that moves up and down slightly with the reservoir (input regulation characteristics).

You will almost always get a noticeably better extreme spread by retaining the valve spring.

nervoustrig said:

The valve spring plays an important role in the valve's self-regulation characteristics. True, it is less important in a regulated PCP than it is in a conventional PCP. However no regulator is perfect...they are subject to a number of causes of pressure variations like creep, temperature-induced pressure rise, and an output pressure that moves up and down slightly with the reservoir (input regulation characteristics).

You will almost always get a noticeably better extreme spread by retaining the valve spring.

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My experience is 100% opposite. I dont run with regulated guns and Iv found all my guns produce better efficiency, higher power in all pressure ranges, less spread or so called better self regulating without valve return spring. Iv never found any reason to keep one unless your balanced valve requires one or you dont have chance to fill from scuba tank. I recently made peekpoppet with flat surface size of 8,5mm sealing to valve bodys 6.8mm and it did hold asap so you could in theory fill with hand pump from empty even without spring even when using Peek as long as its perfect.

In a thread specifically about regulators, you made a statement about valve springs being pointless (other than filling from zero)...with no mention that it’s based on your experience with unregulated PCPs. That’s kind of an important distinction. Without it, the readership has to assume you are talking about regulated PCPs.

But if we are switching topics to unregulated PCPs, a heavier valve spring provides a wider usable pressure range. Meaning a broader bell curve / higher shot count. Achieving “less spread” by removing the valve spring is a possible outcome if one accepts a narrower bell curve. That hardly seems like an indictment against valve springs.

Not all regulated guns have pressure gauges on their regulated chamber. My P35 does not. Not a major limitation since you can see where it went off the regulator is you watch velocity.

My one unregulated gun is a Prod which has a Bstaley but the ES is still over 20 fps. My two regulated guns are generally better although the Avenger gets up to 30 sometimes. The P35 was 13 last time I measured it. You benchrest gun looks interesting and maybe it can get to this sort of velocity variation but my little Prod cannot.