What are some of the benefits of having a long barrel besides making more power? Let's use barrel lengths over 26" as examples. I bring this up as a topic as to me it's strange that manufacturers would not be putting more effort into shortening barrels to make them a bit more "harmonically friendly"?? Are longer barrels somehow more accurate than shorter barrels, or is it more of a fact without them they simply cannot make power to shoot slugs effectively nor efficiently?
Long barrels are better?
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I was under the impression it was all about maximizing power and/or efficiency in a PCP and part of the reason why Bullpups were so popular. Long barrel with a small footprint.
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What type of air gun are you talking about? Barrel length requirements are different for different platforms. PCP, springer etc, etc.
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longer barrels have more time to accelerate a pellet or slug with the same amount of air, so they have the potential of being more efficient.
obviously this depends on lots of factors and there will be diminishing returns until you're slowing down before it leaves the barrel.
as far as accuracy, there is little or no benefit once the barrel is long enough to spin stabilize the projectile, but an additional 10 fps might help.
obviously this depends on lots of factors and there will be diminishing returns until you're slowing down before it leaves the barrel.
as far as accuracy, there is little or no benefit once the barrel is long enough to spin stabilize the projectile, but an additional 10 fps might help.
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Barrel length is only a small part of the equation. Twist rate, plenum size, hammer spring power, hammer weight, regulator setting etc. all play a part. To achieve maximum power and accuracy whether with pellets or slugs with a PCP all these variables have to work together. It is the task of the design engineers to make sure this happens. Sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't. For springers and theoben powered weapons, barrel length, piston power, twist rate etc all apply. The barrel length is only a small part of the perfect shooter quest.
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I know in the PB world barrel length vs muzzle velocity has a definite correlation all other factors being equal. With PB (gettin' to air guns...) certain powders burn faster or slower. Slower burning powders can take advantage of a longer barrel where fast powders are preferred for pistols.
In the airgun realm would a valve that releases a longer duration pulse of air be analogous to a slower burning powder? It seems like it would make sense to release air for a longer perios if the pellet/slug is still accelerating in the barrel. I am not airgun knowledgeable enough to be certain if the "slow burn powder" analogy holds for different hammer and valve adjustments for air guns. Curious myself..
In the airgun realm would a valve that releases a longer duration pulse of air be analogous to a slower burning powder? It seems like it would make sense to release air for a longer perios if the pellet/slug is still accelerating in the barrel. I am not airgun knowledgeable enough to be certain if the "slow burn powder" analogy holds for different hammer and valve adjustments for air guns. Curious myself..
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Let me guess,No. Because a "blast" of powder is different than a blast of air.
I also came from the powder-burning world and was trying to relate the two different ways of propulsion; what I found out= it is better not to relate them,they both stand on their own merits and differences, now that is me, you may find out it helps you, though I think in time you will embrace the differences.
Length of barrels,I think it is all worked out.
I also came from the powder-burning world and was trying to relate the two different ways of propulsion; what I found out= it is better not to relate them,they both stand on their own merits and differences, now that is me, you may find out it helps you, though I think in time you will embrace the differences.
Length of barrels,I think it is all worked out.
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I’m with you Dana, I like compact and short. None of my guns have a barrel any longer than 500mm, and that’s the way I like it. I also don’t shoot crazy fast speeds, so efficiency isn’t a bud deal either. I think the longer range guys are into longer barrels just based on being stuck at a bench, and needing the longer barrel to get the speeds they need, but for most of us, it’s just not needed!
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All agree? How? You didn't say PCP. While mentioning slugs would generally imply PCP, it's not a lock. You know there's lots of non PCP airguns out there. You should have posted this in the PCP section if that's solely what your question is about. Forgive me for trying to be helpful.
Later,
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I guess any of this could apply to any types of airguns, I'm just not aware of any Springers with 26"+ long barrels...I could be dead wrong though.All agree? How? You didn't say PCP. While mentioning slugs would generally imply PCP, it's not a lock. You know there's lots of non PCP airguns out there. You should have posted this in the PCP section if that's solely what your question is about. Forgive me for trying to be helpful.
Later,
I went ahead and flagged my own post to move it over to the PCP gate so people won't continue being confused.
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When I was doing a lot of match shooting with a .308 I found that shorter barrels gave slightly slower speeds but accuracy out to 500 yards was fine. Getting into the longer distances past about 600 the shorter barrels didn’t do as well. I imagine the same is true with whatever type of air rifle one is using, once distances become a bit extreme the longer barrels will deliver.
Rick H.
Rick H.
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I may be wrong but this is my opinion.
Lets talk for example 500-600-700 mm barrels for now.
Shorter barrels need more power to propel the projectile.
Longer barrels need less power to propel the same projectile with the same speed.
With higher Reg micro-tuning the dwell is less user friendly, yes, it is possible to get it right but more finicky, and most people never spent a good enough effort to reach that level.
If you not careful enough with the amount of power, the high airblast pushing the projectile through the muzzle will give a very last kick into the "skirt" and that will make you flyers and/or tumbling.
This why the longer barrels are more popular, the (slightly) lower Reg is more friendly to tune the dwell.
Lets talk for example 500-600-700 mm barrels for now.
Shorter barrels need more power to propel the projectile.
Longer barrels need less power to propel the same projectile with the same speed.
With higher Reg micro-tuning the dwell is less user friendly, yes, it is possible to get it right but more finicky, and most people never spent a good enough effort to reach that level.
If you not careful enough with the amount of power, the high airblast pushing the projectile through the muzzle will give a very last kick into the "skirt" and that will make you flyers and/or tumbling.
This why the longer barrels are more popular, the (slightly) lower Reg is more friendly to tune the dwell.
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From what I have read, here and on GTA, tuning for efficiency not only makes a noticeable difference in Db at the muzzle, but also in accuracy.
If I understand it correctly, an airgun tuned to maximum efficiency uses just as much air as needed, so very little is wasted once the projectile leaves the barrel and therefor doesn't affect the accuracy negatively with a blast of excess air behind the projectile once it leaves the muzzle. I don't know if tuning to the "knee" is the best way to achieve this, but...
Again, from what I have read, you may get the best results in lower noise and accuracy by using the highest PSI and shortest dwell of the HS/valve that will make the projectile leave the muzzle at the desired fps. Finding the perfect mix of those 2 is the key.
Cue those folks who have actually done testing in this area to chime in and either confirm/deny or amend what I just posted. (grin)
P.S.
If I understand what I said above correctly, then tuning for efficiency works regardless of barrel length for the most part.
If I understand it correctly, an airgun tuned to maximum efficiency uses just as much air as needed, so very little is wasted once the projectile leaves the barrel and therefor doesn't affect the accuracy negatively with a blast of excess air behind the projectile once it leaves the muzzle. I don't know if tuning to the "knee" is the best way to achieve this, but...
Again, from what I have read, you may get the best results in lower noise and accuracy by using the highest PSI and shortest dwell of the HS/valve that will make the projectile leave the muzzle at the desired fps. Finding the perfect mix of those 2 is the key.
Cue those folks who have actually done testing in this area to chime in and either confirm/deny or amend what I just posted. (grin)
P.S.
If I understand what I said above correctly, then tuning for efficiency works regardless of barrel length for the most part.
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I understand and agree completely!!! My rigs are tune to use High psi at fast, full open short dwell times. This allows for the low report, high shot count, and easily controlled harmonics.
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Yeah, I had to edit my post to add valve dwell, which is what I meant when I wrote HS dwell. Getting old ain't for sissies! (chuckle)
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To me it is all about power, not accuracy. Both long and short barrels can be very accurate. If you want to try and get 22lr velocity out of an airgun, a really long barrel will definitely help. If you are trying to knock a tree rat out of a tree, or make nice little groups at 50 yards or less, the shorter barrel will do just fine.
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Hello
It has been my experience shooting many brands of air rifles and spending many long hours with the best airgun engineers and manufacturers. The better the air delivery system whether it is hammer, hammer less, regulated or non regulated, electronic or mechanical will give a balance of more power, more accuracy, more shots per cylinder and at the same time requires LESS barrel length to achieve. We all call this TUNING. The better the design from the beginning the less TUNING is required by the user to achieve results intended by the maker. Airgunners seem to be a unique group of shooters that like to think the manufacturers design can be improved on. Sometimes it can.
Barrel length is free power up to a point that is different with every rifle and it’s tune. However it can be a crutch for a poorly designed air delivery system and turn the wasted air into use. Dana’s point about harmonics is well taken. The longer the barrel the more vibration and corresponding accuracy issues can be present. Requiring more tuning.
Many users want to recreate the firearm with air power. 4500 psi compared to 20000. It’s not a fair fight. Fun to try though.
Rob.
It has been my experience shooting many brands of air rifles and spending many long hours with the best airgun engineers and manufacturers. The better the air delivery system whether it is hammer, hammer less, regulated or non regulated, electronic or mechanical will give a balance of more power, more accuracy, more shots per cylinder and at the same time requires LESS barrel length to achieve. We all call this TUNING. The better the design from the beginning the less TUNING is required by the user to achieve results intended by the maker. Airgunners seem to be a unique group of shooters that like to think the manufacturers design can be improved on. Sometimes it can.
Barrel length is free power up to a point that is different with every rifle and it’s tune. However it can be a crutch for a poorly designed air delivery system and turn the wasted air into use. Dana’s point about harmonics is well taken. The longer the barrel the more vibration and corresponding accuracy issues can be present. Requiring more tuning.
Many users want to recreate the firearm with air power. 4500 psi compared to 20000. It’s not a fair fight. Fun to try though.
Rob.
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