Hi, could a drop or machenical impact, such as a shot from a firearm, cause a pcp bottle explode? And would an aluminum one have higher chance of explosion?
Could dropping a PCP cause an exposion?
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The chances of catastrophic failure of any kind are slim to none, and if you are talking a hard impact, extremely hard, it wouldn't likely "explode" but rather abruptly erupt and let the air out. A bullet hitting an airgun reservoir or tank directly would be comparable (but much smaller) to the videos on YouTube where firearm channels hit scuba tanks with 50 cals and so on ***DO NOT DO THIS it is not only unsafe but such talk is expressly forbidden on this forum and for good reason*** The scuba vs direct impact videos that I've seen are never an explosion per say but an eruption and the tank moves around during the sudden decompression. Obviously°°°°° do not replicate that foolishness with a firearm as it is dangerous and would be a bad example for the sport. There have been stress tests done by professional reviewers in desolate places, and manufacturers obviously do stress tests in controlled environments. Aluminum I believe would be the most brittle compared to steel, carbon wrapped tanks, and titanium, but I do not believe an accidental impact of an extreme nature would result in the Hollywood portrayal of an explosion such as in the film Jaws. I believe it would be a bang, an eruption, and the airgun flying 5-10 ft. However, I am not an engineer so I will render that input to the engineers here. Dana Webb @Crosman999 (professional reviewer) who frequents this forum did a stress test with an Evol, Dreamlite, and a Brocock in a remote desert, including throwing them off a cliff, dragging them behind a car, and running them over, and their ability to take hard impacts is demonstrative of the safety built into them. If you want to see a HPA scuba tank catastrophic failure there are many examples on YouTube, but they usually fail between 9-12k pressure for steel (well above the operating pressure). The only manufacturer that has done an unconventional display of a stress test on video that I can think of is Edgun when he ran over his product but for the life of me I can't find the video. Back in the day there were a couple C02 to PCP conversions that had tank failures, so you could study those instances as well (again do not replicate this and do not fill a tank beyond the manufacturer's suggested operating pressure).
Hope that answers your question, and again, don't purposely hit a reservoir or a tank under any circumstance.
-Atlas
Hope that answers your question, and again, don't purposely hit a reservoir or a tank under any circumstance.
-Atlas
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Maybe if you dropped it in the water and someone shot it while the shark was chewing on it. 
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In most cases...sorta like shooting a hole in a spray paint can. Like Atlas says.
BUT, a full pressure, 4350psi bottle incursion, might well create a small explosion. I HAVE seen industrial pressure bottles that have been ripped open because of a deep crease in them, and exploded when tested.
A bullet piercing a "full" (4350psi) bottle (or cylinder)...I would NOT want to be too close to. Especially if you've seen the aftermath of the explosion. YES, they can and do explode.
4350psi isn't childsplay !
The "carbon fiber" bottles are actually a thin aluminum bottle with the carbon fiber overwrapping, to make up for the "thin" original material, to provide full strength.
So...in actuality, the carbon fiber bottles are actually considered a "composite" (more than one material) bottle.
Mike
BUT, a full pressure, 4350psi bottle incursion, might well create a small explosion. I HAVE seen industrial pressure bottles that have been ripped open because of a deep crease in them, and exploded when tested.
A bullet piercing a "full" (4350psi) bottle (or cylinder)...I would NOT want to be too close to. Especially if you've seen the aftermath of the explosion. YES, they can and do explode.
4350psi isn't childsplay !
The "carbon fiber" bottles are actually a thin aluminum bottle with the carbon fiber overwrapping, to make up for the "thin" original material, to provide full strength.
So...in actuality, the carbon fiber bottles are actually considered a "composite" (more than one material) bottle.
Mike
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I concur with the above statements.
I would expect and hope that any pressure vessel is metallurgical sound in the manner that it should fail in a somewhat controlled manner. Therefore it would still try to stay together to reduce shrapnel and allow to the gas to depressurize as it needs to.
No matter what I would not want to be near on in the even of such a failure but only because safety training for welding gasses and conventional air compressors.
I think the general setup ls you run into are safe regardless for every day use. So I would not worry.
Personally I concern myself with the health of my regulator during elevation and sudden temperature changes when the bottle is fully charged rather than explosion.
I would expect and hope that any pressure vessel is metallurgical sound in the manner that it should fail in a somewhat controlled manner. Therefore it would still try to stay together to reduce shrapnel and allow to the gas to depressurize as it needs to.
No matter what I would not want to be near on in the even of such a failure but only because safety training for welding gasses and conventional air compressors.
I think the general setup ls you run into are safe regardless for every day use. So I would not worry.
Personally I concern myself with the health of my regulator during elevation and sudden temperature changes when the bottle is fully charged rather than explosion.
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Possible? Yes. Likely, not very. A 4500psi bottle has a safety factor of 3 times that amount of pressure. Common sense dictates we treat ANY amount of high pressure with respect & goes even more so for manufacturers worrying about the liabilities of that kind of pressure being near our faces! I've always been an advocate of extreme caution when dealing with HP air but after dealing with it & associated equipment for 35 years I also understand what safety margins are built in. Then again, there's no accounting for the depths of human stupidity & what SOME people will do with said equipment 
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Through the years I've only encountered a few what I would call catastrophic failures. One was the HiPac incident that was user error and ended up blowing off the gun into someone's leg. A few fill whips have exploded, one causing serious hand injury, a few probes being ejected into the face and arms. A YongHong compressor fill whip catching fire.... usually the fill source and components are of more danger than the actual gun. This is especially the case when dealing with cheap poorly made components. Most Airguns can withstand a tremendous amount of abuse...I know this through my own work. If you aren't sure about something, please don't be afraid to ask for help.
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I was driving thru a generating station the other day. When passing by the stored cylinders I thought about the times thru 42 years in the industrial work place I have have seen discipline issued from a person not securing a steel pressurized cylinder that are usually under 3kpsi. Then thought how the pressures we use are several times more. I ran across this read here while back. It is a interesting and a good reminder.
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I would say no explosion but the high pressure air escape is dangerous too. I once grabbed a full (3000psi) scuba tank and accidently cracked open the valve. It spun out of my hand and went dancing across the floor just missing me. After it was over I noticed the tank had blown a big chunk of skin off my ankle bone. Took over 5 min to drain.
Just read oldsparky's link. Yep, that is what it looks like.
Just read oldsparky's link. Yep, that is what it looks like.
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If yoy think about paintball shooters, it is probably not uncommon someone falls with there guns, but I have never heard og a failure.
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Once I made a similar question to some one that worked at a squba store in San Antonio. He answered me that he had never seen an accident that could had hurt someone.
So the real answer to your question should be:
"No, but you should rather be cautious af not make someone to catch a pellet or a slug. That is a real risk that could cause someone to die easily !!! "
So the real answer to your question should be:
"No, but you should rather be cautious af not make someone to catch a pellet or a slug. That is a real risk that could cause someone to die easily !!! "
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I am replacing an air conditioner in a hot garage. When I get hot I come take a break. I was watching utube check this out. Hey I am not running paranoid. But stored energy can be dangerous. Also who knows how this guys tank was taken care of.
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That is scary. But to be honest if you treat the equipment right, it is probably more dangerous to drive your car, than having a catastrofic failure on your gun.
Almost like airplane accidents. They do happen, but considering the thousands of flights, and million of people flying, it is still safer than allot of everyday day life stuff. I however like to wear eye protection while filling my guns, as fittings can come loose when filling. Escpesially if the O-ring in fitting is thight, and if one forget to check that the collar is pulled all the way forward. It has never happened yet, but I believe the chance of that happening is bigger than any failure on the gun, or tank itself. It is probably also easier to cause it to fly off, by human error.
Almost like airplane accidents. They do happen, but considering the thousands of flights, and million of people flying, it is still safer than allot of everyday day life stuff. I however like to wear eye protection while filling my guns, as fittings can come loose when filling. Escpesially if the O-ring in fitting is thight, and if one forget to check that the collar is pulled all the way forward. It has never happened yet, but I believe the chance of that happening is bigger than any failure on the gun, or tank itself. It is probably also easier to cause it to fly off, by human error.
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I think what needs clarification here is what factors can make mechanical deflegration happen .
#1 concern is abuse, overfilling, crushing, material fatigue from failure to hydro as needed.
#2 concern is effects from corrosion internal or external.
Internal to me is more dangerous because you don’t see it; thus the importance of hydro testing.
#3 Keep corrosive materials away from HP air systems and don't store your PCP's anywhere where chemicals are kept.
Safety First - Always Secure your charging leads or whips! Use moisture filters!
#1 concern is abuse, overfilling, crushing, material fatigue from failure to hydro as needed.
#2 concern is effects from corrosion internal or external.
Internal to me is more dangerous because you don’t see it; thus the importance of hydro testing.
#3 Keep corrosive materials away from HP air systems and don't store your PCP's anywhere where chemicals are kept.
Safety First - Always Secure your charging leads or whips! Use moisture filters!
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I had once a loud bang when the probe came out during a filling with my compressor caused by my fault of not pushing the probe all way inside the filling port. But it was just a bang. Nothing else.
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I used to get my scba tanks filled at my local fire department. I asked them if they’d ever seen or heard of catastrophic failure with carbon fiber wrapped tanks. They said no even though the safety videos showed some possibilities they had to be induced to fail. One of guys said he got knocked backwards and slid down a flight of metal steps on his tank. Deep scratches and gouges in the epoxy but the tank was fine for two more years of service. He said they beat and bang the hell out of their tanks. Even said they bounce on concrete when someone fails to catch one being tossed out of a truck or off a balcony. Valve failure is their biggest concern. Was told a tank dented a steel rim on an old farm truck used for parades when it was involuntarily separated from its valve under full pressure. And they hated my 1 hour tanks. Said they prefer 30 minute size for weight and say no one wants to be in a burning building for an hour. I can see that
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Seems like there are at least two parts of this. First, if a HPA component fails for any reason, could you call the rapid release of the air an explosion. I looked at the definition of an explosion and I think you can but I suggest we not do that. Any sort of gun does not need more negative publicity. Safer in terms of public perception just to call it a rapid release of the high pressure air. Depending on the amount of stored air and it's pressure, the release could involve things banging around and just a jet of high pressure air can do damage. Regardless of what we call it, it is a bad thing.
The other factor is what sort of damage to our guns could cause this. It seems to me that there may be a difference between guns with carbon fiber bottles and guns that store their air in a metal container. In either case, the design margins also seem significant but I don't know how to obtain them for review. If the damage to the air storage container removes or damages enough depth of the material such that it overcomes the design margin, the container fails. A gouge or a dent that results in a crack seem like possibilities. The carbon fiber won't dent but it probably gouges easier than metal. With respect to steel versus aluminum I would suggest that ductility is influenced by material and that generally higher yield aluminum alloys are less ductile. Steel has much higher yield strength but if it is made thinner based upon the higher yield strength the margins may be less than the aluminum. I'd rather have steel but I don't think the risk is high enough I would want to carry the resulting gun around on a hunt. I think as a practical matter we get aluminum. Even when the outside is carbon fiber the part touching the air is aluminum.
Anybody worried about this can add margin by not filling to the limit. If your gun is rated for 300 bar, you can fill to 250. A container at lower pressure has more margin to withstand damage. But I hope we are not damaging our guns enough that they would suddenly release the stored air.
The other factor is what sort of damage to our guns could cause this. It seems to me that there may be a difference between guns with carbon fiber bottles and guns that store their air in a metal container. In either case, the design margins also seem significant but I don't know how to obtain them for review. If the damage to the air storage container removes or damages enough depth of the material such that it overcomes the design margin, the container fails. A gouge or a dent that results in a crack seem like possibilities. The carbon fiber won't dent but it probably gouges easier than metal. With respect to steel versus aluminum I would suggest that ductility is influenced by material and that generally higher yield aluminum alloys are less ductile. Steel has much higher yield strength but if it is made thinner based upon the higher yield strength the margins may be less than the aluminum. I'd rather have steel but I don't think the risk is high enough I would want to carry the resulting gun around on a hunt. I think as a practical matter we get aluminum. Even when the outside is carbon fiber the part touching the air is aluminum.
Anybody worried about this can add margin by not filling to the limit. If your gun is rated for 300 bar, you can fill to 250. A container at lower pressure has more margin to withstand damage. But I hope we are not damaging our guns enough that they would suddenly release the stored air.
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