Probably a non-wanted question, but...

MikeVV said:

Question to those that shoot with their guns supported by other than the shooters hands.

Why is it that folks think it's SO...cool, wonderful, amazing, astonishing, etc., that a modern, quality pellet rifle (you name the caliber and gun brand) when said gun shoots dime sized groups at 50 or even 100 yards...when used with sand bags, bipods or tripods to steady the shooter and his/her gun ?

Yeah, I tried it once, to see what the difficulty is. I'm quickly coming up on 72 yrs old, and yeah...EVEN...I can shoot dime sized groups at 75 yards (that's the distance I shot) with my RTI Prophet Compact, in .22 .

So...WHAT's the attraction ? Nothing's been proven, very little skill involved..!?

Sure, I fully understand supporting the gun for sighting in the new sight/scope of your choice. It's much faster than sighting in, supported, than doing it free hand. I'll give you that. I also understand the help in finding possible problems that a gun may have recently exhibited.

I don't get it. Please counsel me on crutched shooting, so I can understand the possible misunderstood .

And...yeah, no...disrespect intended to anyone. Just don't understand this type of shooting.

Mike

Click to expand...

Well Mike, as someone who loves to shoot offhand (and who got into air rifles because they allowed me to practice offhand shooting in my basement and backyard) I kind of agree with you.

On the other hand, shooting dime sized 5 or 10 shot groups at 50 and 100 yards ain’t that easy, (at least to me) and is also impossible without a stable rest. So, I do both. I always want to see what I can do at 25, 50 and 100 yards offhand. For that, especially at 75-100 yards, I love shooting steel. At 25 yards or under I’ll shoot both paper for group size and steel. BUT, I also love shooting those Timmy groups at 50 and 100 yards from a good bench, with a bipod or a rest.

At the same time, I really don’t understand the need for monopods or the like for shooting standing up. I guess I grew up understanding that you should be able to hit a man or deer sized target reliably offhand anywhere from 50 to 200 yards.

My 10 cents…

Chris

The chasing of supreme precision and accuracy is something I enjoy about airguns, up near the top of my list actually. When that is the pursuit, offhand is not the shooting position to be using.

Well, in the spirit of possibly pissing off some fellow forum members, I would offer this: You seem to have answered your own question, and imho because going for greater than 55 yard moa groups is easier than competing in Field Target ,where the contestant is required to know where their airgun will print AT RANDOM DISTANCES -

It wasn't all that long ago when pellets guns were incapable of such accuracy no matter how they were supported and, even with the newest and the best, it's still a challenge for most of us mortals.

The strength in my left shoulder started waning about 5 years ago. I CANNOT shoot offhand with any acceptable degree of accuracy & my targets are live prey so inaccuracy is unacceptable. Do I compare myself to guys who can do it offhand, HELL NO. I envy that ability. When shooting with the support that I use I'm WAAAAAY more impressed by the GUN's ability than mine. It's THAT accuracy that I think is "SO cool & amazing" not mine so much. I'd love to be able to do it without external support but my love of & desire to be shooting means I have to do whatever I have to do to continue. Plus, I know there are guys out there who don't have the ability to shoot well even with the use of rests, bipods, etc. If YOU (OP) have the ability & skill to do it offhand, more power to ya. Be grateful, but don't diminish other's accomplishments because they need a little aid. I strongly disagree that "little skill" is involved. Just ask some military snipers about that

I have 2 properties where getting rid of pigeons is the only concern. The more I get, the happier they are. Shots are generally 40 to 70 yards. My chances are improved quite a bit when I can support the gun. I can and have taken them out free standing but missing is more frequet. I look for every edge I can get. I don't have to look good or have bragging rights. I just need a pile of dead birds.

How about reading wind?

Because it's fun to see how many pellets I can get through the same hole. I'm not as steady as I used to be and steadying an 8-pound rifle for an accurate shot is not easy these days...

I agree that doing anything offhand is more impressive but shooting an MOA group at 100yds with a pellet gun from a rest still takes a decent amount of patience and skill. There's skill in tuning the gun properly, skill in reading small changes in wind, skill in pulling the trigger properly, or just plain skill in knowing when NOT to pull that trigger. Give an inexperienced shooter a .22 M3 and a tin of pellets in even a light 5 mph crosswind. I'm willing to bet that group isn't going to be all that noteworthy.

I do love to shoot offhand, but respect the art of bench rest & the skills it requires.

Wish offhand would gain more popularity, but under no illusion that it will. Always wanted to try metallic silhouette competition, but it doesn't exist anywhere near me. Plenty of BR though.
Was the same when I was into powder burners... ask someone if the club they shoot at has silhouette competition, & they assume you mean those torso silhouettes used in IDPA. Most think steel chickens is a heavy metal band.

A shame, given the low barriers to entry. Decent rifle & scope, pellets, & a set of 1/10 silhouettes & you're good to go. Also a lot easier to find a 45 yard space to shoot than 100.

If you just punch holes in paper and are satisfied with your groups, go for what ever makes you happy. If you are shooting tree rats or other vermin/varmints, a supported shot will produce a head or heart lung hit and humanly kill the critter (thats a paradox, lol) as opposed to wounding or maiming it and have it limp off to die later.

I always shoot rested or leaning against something if at all possible. I have made some good offhand shots but feel more comfortable using a rest. At the dairy I want to hit what I'm shooting at and not a cow or equipment. Since I started using a Trigger Stick tripod my offhand skills have suffered I will say that.

MikeVV said:

Question to those that shoot with their guns supported by other than the shooters hands.

Why is it that folks think it's SO...cool, wonderful, amazing, astonishing, etc., that a modern, quality pellet rifle (you name the caliber and gun brand) when said gun shoots dime sized groups at 50 or even 100 yards...when used with sand bags, bipods or tripods to steady the shooter and his/her gun ?

Yeah, I tried it once, to see what the difficulty is. I'm quickly coming up on 72 yrs old, and yeah...EVEN...I can shoot dime sized groups at 75 yards (that's the distance I shot) with my RTI Prophet Compact, in .22 .

So...WHAT's the attraction ? Nothing's been proven, very little skill involved..!?

Sure, I fully understand supporting the gun for sighting in the new sight/scope of your choice. It's much faster than sighting in, supported, than doing it free hand. I'll give you that. I also understand the help in finding possible problems that a gun may have recently exhibited.

I don't get it. Please counsel me on crutched shooting, so I can understand the possible misunderstood .

And...yeah, no...disrespect intended to anyone. Just don't understand this type of shooting.

Mike

Click to expand...

That is why I have zero interest in target shooting with PCPs, they are just to easy to shoot precisely.

I only shoot my PCPs to make sure the zero is right for hunting then they go away until they are called upon to go in the woods to perform.

If i feel like target shooting I use my springers.

When practicing or just shooting for fun I always shoot off hand. I will use the bench for sighting in and testing ammo.
When I'm hunting I still shoot off hand but much prefer to get into a position where I can use a tree as a rest in order to make a more precise shot.

I am a hunter and I know since I was a kid two important things:

1.- It is very difficult for me to hit the target when shooting off hand; and

2.- My target won't let me set a bench, a bipod, a bubble level and to read the wind.

I alwas try to identify as fast as possible the rest I've got near by. Normally my only rest available is getting seated and rest my elbows on my knees as quick as possible and then sight and aim.

Practicing shooting dully rested in order to learn how to aim has always been the key factor when hunting.

I shoot targets from a bench to learn what my gun is capable of. Then I shoot offhand hunting. People are far more impressed by me shooting a squirrel running through the trees at 50 yards than shooting a small group at the same distance. An old man used to tell me stories when I was around twenty about the Remington salesman that would put on shows at hardware stores back in the day. He said the guy would throw things in the air and shoot them with his 22lr pump action then eject the empty case, bat it up in the air with the rifle butt and shoot it also. He said the guy would flip pennies into the air and tell which side he'd shoot it on but I don't really believe that one. These stories started me on my journey of trick shooting. I started out with my Ithica 22lr single shot falling block and an old bag of charcoal briquettes. I'd throw one of the chucks up in the air and shoot at it. Before long I had shot the whole bag of them and started picking up the pieces to shoot. By the time I shot all those pieces I could hit just about anything and people would stop by my house to throw things up for me. Wild plumbs, black walnuts, tree frogs whatever. One morning my cousin stopped by and ate hotcakes from McDonalds while watching me shoot. He left his bag on the hood of my car so my wife came to put it in the trash and said "I bet ya can't hit this" as a pack of pancake syrup flew above my head. I learned my lesson about that. I had syrup all over me. I never could hit empty 22lr shell casings or pennies and I practiced those pennies a lot. They have to be spinning to see them and I could never thump them high enough while spinning to get the sight on them. By then Remington had just come out with 45acp shot shells that would cycle the action. Those things were loaded with #12 shot and work awesome with the extended brass case formed into a round nose and crimped in smooth. I was working in a gun shop out in the country with a shooting range two miles down the road and could buy ammo cheap. I'd have people oohing and aahing when I tossed aluminum cans out in front of me and send them flying into the tall grass with my .45 so they wouldn't see all the little holes. Old light bulbs worked well too. I've heard all the wild west show trick shooters used shot shells also. Back then I shot about 200 rounds of 22lr a day. I never really thought about the noise at the time but I bet my neighbors hated me. We were out in the country so the closest one was about 100 yards away. I can't shoot stuff out of the air anymore but I still hit running squirrels most of the time. Sucks getting old, the only good thing about it is grandchildren.

Heck, I can’t remember the last time I saw/heard Tom Berenger tell his spotter “Range me” as he was shooting offhand

I don't punch paper , other than to zero and learn differing ammo.
While hunting or despatching pests, I am focused on the kill, not on how good a shot I am, so will use any rest available.
True, standing offhand shooting, only at shorter distance ( 30ish max ) and only if there's no steadying option.

Good thread, like it.

I guess almost any shooting discipline you choose to discuss will not appeal to everyone, and cannot necessarily be described. The good thing, it's a hobby, no rationalization necessary.