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Moderator conflicted
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"Make sure you print that out when you get arrested..."
@Firewalker, how is that response relevant to what I posted? I just showed what I found regarding legality of suppressors on airguns. Pointing out if I was in error or not would have been more relevant to the discussion.
@Firewalker, how is that response relevant to what I posted? I just showed what I found regarding legality of suppressors on airguns. Pointing out if I was in error or not would have been more relevant to the discussion.
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The supreme court has ruled on what is required for the batf to prosecute for a suppressor. The device has to fit on a firearm un modified. It doesnt matter what material it is made out of and it doesnt matter if it says for airgun use only. If it will attach to a firearm without modification it is a firearms suppressor if it does not fit a firearm without modification its not a firearms suppressor. If the device has 1/2 - 20 threads and you have an adapter to adapt 1/2 - 20 tpi to 1/2 - 28 tpi that shows intent to use the mod as a firearms suppressor and you would be prosecuted. The ruling by the supreme court is very clear and limits the batf in that way for a reason. If you look thru any normal house hold or shop you could grab multiple items and modify them to fit onto a firearm. Every one in the U.S. that owned a firearm would be an instant felon if the supreme court did not rule in the manner it did for clarifying what makes a firearms suppressor a firearms suppressor. The supreme court made it clear that the device has to fit un modified on a firearm and reduce its sound signature and cannot be called a suppressor if it does not fit the firearm unmodified and there is no proof of intent to modify the device to fit a firearm. Intent would be a thread adapter.
Except that a quick search of Google shows multiple arrests for non-registered suppressors.
"Are suppressors legal on airguns?
The NFA (The National Firearms Act of 1934) currently does not give the federal government the ability to prosecute suppressors for air guns. So making an air gun suppressor is legal in the United States (at the federal level) as long as you intend that suppressor to be only used on an airgun"
This is not factual and if you are using this quote in the case you get arrested, I would bring copy of it with you so that you can educate the arresting agents.
Right from the Alphabet org.GOV SITE:
"Are paintball and airgun sound suppressers considered NFA weapons?
Español
The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by Alphabet org’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be firearm silencers by nature of their design and function. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from Alphabet org and pay the required tax.
[26 U.S.C. 5845; 27 CFR 479.11]
Last Reviewed April 20, 2020"
Thats why I say you need to make an informed decision and accept the consequences thereof.
Because you wrote, "
"Are suppressors legal on airguns?
The NFA (The National Firearms Act of 1934) currently does not give the federal government the ability to prosecute suppressors for air guns. So making an air gun suppressor is legal in the United States (at the federal level) as long as you intend that suppressor to be only used on an airgun"
This is not factual and if you are using this quote in the case you get arrested, I would bring copy of it with you so that you can educate the arresting agents.
Right from the Alphabet org.GOV SITE:
"Are paintball and airgun sound suppressers considered NFA weapons?
Español
The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by Alphabet org’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be firearm silencers by nature of their design and function. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from Alphabet org and pay the required tax.
[26 U.S.C. 5845; 27 CFR 479.11]
Last Reviewed April 20, 2020"
Thats why I say you need to make an informed decision and accept the consequences thereof.
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The issue is the Alphabet org does what ever they want like going door to door of persons that bought a solvent trap. The Alphabet org needs to be dissolved.
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The Alphabet org doesn't care about that or the constitution they do as they please because people allow them to do so out of fear. It does not mean what they're doing is lawful and more and more people are fighting back. Not all police are created equal and a lot in fact don't know the law, you find all lot of videos on this. As Free Americans we should never comply to unlawful laws period.
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No arguments from me at all, gents.
One question though, which of you will step forward today to stop it?
I'll wait....
One question though, which of you will step forward today to stop it?
I'll wait....
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Air Rifle Silencers & Compensators | Pyramyd AIR
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Why doesn't somebody write to the head of BATFE and request that they make a ruling about airgun silencers?
It's been done - MANY times. The BATFE has no more authority over airguns than the government of Australia has over the United States. Airguns are outside the scope of the Bureau's charter, so they cannot issue any kind of statement about them. Silencers, on the other hand, are their bread and butter. So, if a device can be REMOVED from an airgun and ATTACHED to a portable firearm and diminish its report, that device is then legally defined as a silencer. If that silencer has no serial number, it becomes a firearm without a serial number - the possession of which is a criminal offense. If you made it, you could be found guilty of manufacturing a firearm without a license - another criminal offense. If the judge decides that your legal ownership of a .22 rimfire rifle constitutes the intent to attach your illegal silencer to a firearm, you could lose everything you own and go to prison.
I can't sum this up any better than to say I've been summing it up all along. The airgun silencer issue is complex, convoluted and anything but clear. If someone tries to convince you otherwise, don't listen to another word they say.
So, how does DonnyFL and others stay in business, who knows. I guess those of us that own a after market Airgun moderator/silencer shouldn't be surprised if we get a knock on our door one day by the BATF
Found a answer within this article about DonnyFL
Is It Legal to Make a Silencer For An Air Rifle? (Fully Explained!)
Generally, it's legal to make a silencer for an air rifle if you're not going to use it on real firearms. Otherwise, it would be illegal.
outdoorcrazee.com Last edited:
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You me and most others know it takes a lot of $$$$$$$ to get things changed. Thankfully we have progun/2A groups like FPC and GOA that are fighting daily in courts to preserve and strengthen or 2A rights. So, if you're not already a member please consider joining and support those that support us (I'm no longer a fan of the NRA they failed us badly just a few years ago).
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Seems to me that everyone who wants to tell us how complicated the air gun silencer issue is cites information that is somewhere between 6 and 12 or 15 years old. It also seems to me that nobody has been prosecuted for an air gun silencer in the last five or six years. Maybe somebody can cite a court case where someone was prosecuted for having or building or selling an air gun silencer in the last five or six years?
I sincerely hope this logic simplifies the problem for those of you who want to make it complicated. But if it doesn't please cite your evidence to the contrary.
Simply as I possibly can the court case cited in my link proves unequivocally that the three letter agency who is like Voldemort and may not be named does not have a mandate to prosecute people who build air gun moderators and sell them.
Yes the agency which may not be named will err on the side of caution when looking at packages coming through customs if they find one that they know could be destined for a firearm probably even if it says for air gun use only on it. That doesn't mean they're going to come and get you and you should be very very afraid.
Let's be brutally honest. None of us are lawyers. Some of us would have you be afraid. Others would have you be stupid maybe I fall into that category. But nobody has been put in jail for building or selling an air gun silencer in my memory.
Hopefully that will temper your fear and the fear mongering that is going on in this thread.
I sincerely hope this logic simplifies the problem for those of you who want to make it complicated. But if it doesn't please cite your evidence to the contrary.
Simply as I possibly can the court case cited in my link proves unequivocally that the three letter agency who is like Voldemort and may not be named does not have a mandate to prosecute people who build air gun moderators and sell them.
Yes the agency which may not be named will err on the side of caution when looking at packages coming through customs if they find one that they know could be destined for a firearm probably even if it says for air gun use only on it. That doesn't mean they're going to come and get you and you should be very very afraid.
Let's be brutally honest. None of us are lawyers. Some of us would have you be afraid. Others would have you be stupid maybe I fall into that category. But nobody has been put in jail for building or selling an air gun silencer in my memory.
Hopefully that will temper your fear and the fear mongering that is going on in this thread.
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My understanding is this:
"Airguns are not classified as firearms under the U.S. Code, the devices designed to make them quieter can be covered under NFA control. Airguns that are suppressed must follow a strict set of conditions to ensure that they cannot be used on actual firearms. Either they come suppressed from the factory and are “permanently” installed or the guns are retrofitted by one of a few qualified dealers." TFB, 2016
For those interested in risky, "Alternatively, individual makers can install silencer-type devices under the auspices of “lead dust collectors” or “barrel shrouds” that aren’t advertised as silencers. These builders are forced to walk a fine line between manufacturing a device for their airguns and not a silencer that can be attached to an actual firearm." TFB 2016
In the spring of 2022, a silencer was redefined as "Keystone parts." airgun silencers commercial available do not contain these parts.
My previous posted article could be something as simple as terminology, but worth noting.
Tom Gaylord, in his 2019 blog on the subject, talks about people going to prison for not knowing the law.
"Airguns are not classified as firearms under the U.S. Code, the devices designed to make them quieter can be covered under NFA control. Airguns that are suppressed must follow a strict set of conditions to ensure that they cannot be used on actual firearms. Either they come suppressed from the factory and are “permanently” installed or the guns are retrofitted by one of a few qualified dealers." TFB, 2016
For those interested in risky, "Alternatively, individual makers can install silencer-type devices under the auspices of “lead dust collectors” or “barrel shrouds” that aren’t advertised as silencers. These builders are forced to walk a fine line between manufacturing a device for their airguns and not a silencer that can be attached to an actual firearm." TFB 2016
In the spring of 2022, a silencer was redefined as "Keystone parts." airgun silencers commercial available do not contain these parts.
My previous posted article could be something as simple as terminology, but worth noting.
Tom Gaylord, in his 2019 blog on the subject, talks about people going to prison for not knowing the law.
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I found something that may help. The Gun Owners Foundation obtained some docs from Voldemort's bois via a FOIA request concerning evaluation of solvent traps and fuel filers as firearm silencers:
One of the linked documents contains two pages of common firearm muzzle threads.
The document states that these threads are included as an aid to the Technology Branch in determining the intent of a device to be used on a firearm.
View attachment 091622 ATF_Tech_Bulletin_20-01_Inline_Filters.pdf
It makes good sense that the common air gun moderator thread is 1/2"x20 and not 1/2"x28
https://www.gunowners.com/8-general...org-s-secret-solvent-trap-technical-bulletins
One of the linked documents contains two pages of common firearm muzzle threads.
The document states that these threads are included as an aid to the Technology Branch in determining the intent of a device to be used on a firearm.
View attachment 091622 ATF_Tech_Bulletin_20-01_Inline_Filters.pdf
It makes good sense that the common air gun moderator thread is 1/2"x20 and not 1/2"x28
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If you go to the alphabet agency docs that I link in this thread they contain detailed descriptions regarding how they evaluate a "part" as intended for use in a firearm silencer.
It seems like a very good guide to those making airgun moderators as to what NOT to do. Regards
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That document is from 2019.
The law states a baffle is considered an NFA silencer. If you have five baffles on the table, you have five silencers; unless you have a registered receiver, then they are parts and must all fit. There is no provision for extras except for manufacturers.
Some airgun silencers have baffles, and that's where the trouble starts.
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One of the mistakes that most of us make concerning law is assuming federal agencies are authorized to make law. That of itself is unconstitutional. So for example somewhere along the line there's a court case and an appeal that determines that the 
Alphabet org does not have a mandate to regulate air guns or air gun silencers. This decision is based upon the existing statute as written by Congress. Then along comes a clever young lawyer wanting to advance himself in the ranks of a federal agency. He decides to decouple baffles from silencers and creates out of whole cloth new law. In that situation that new "law" is unconstitutional because it usurps the intent of the original statute as written by Congress. That is how potatoes are criminalized.
These kinds of problems are never going to be resolved in a forum like this one. One man will have one opinion and another will disagree. Both will think they are correct. Yet it's entirely possible neither one of them is or that both of them are. The truth is almost always somewhere in the middle sadly we have forgotten that.
Here is what we know and all seem to agree upon. Existing precedent says
the agency which may not be named does not have a mandate to regulate airguns or airgun silencers. If that is the case, I consider it imprudent to try to continue to couple airgun silences with firearms silencers. Let there be a clean disconnect. If you're building an airgun silencer do what you can to ensure that it cannot be used on a firearm but don't compromise the quality of your design because your intent does matter and that has been ruled to be the case in an appellate decision. It is also how the statute itself is written. It is self-defeating for us to attempt to redefine what is clearly an airgun silencer as a firearms silencer. Why would we do that? If we make that assumption we've criminalized a whole segment of the airgun community and opened a door we would rather keep closed.
That door has been closed by the courts, let it remain closed. There is a reason the agency which may not be named did not appeal that decision to the SCOTUS, and it is not because they liked that decision. They know how SCOTUS would rule given the decision at the appellate court. They are afraid of loosing a significant portion of their mandate.
Note: Can we all agree that we have reached the level of the absurd with the censorship of the name of this Federal agency? It absolutely stinks of GTA's stance on the word "silencer".
Alphabet org does not have a mandate to regulate air guns or air gun silencers. This decision is based upon the existing statute as written by Congress. Then along comes a clever young lawyer wanting to advance himself in the ranks of a federal agency. He decides to decouple baffles from silencers and creates out of whole cloth new law. In that situation that new "law" is unconstitutional because it usurps the intent of the original statute as written by Congress. That is how potatoes are criminalized.These kinds of problems are never going to be resolved in a forum like this one. One man will have one opinion and another will disagree. Both will think they are correct. Yet it's entirely possible neither one of them is or that both of them are. The truth is almost always somewhere in the middle sadly we have forgotten that.
Here is what we know and all seem to agree upon. Existing precedent says
the agency which may not be named does not have a mandate to regulate airguns or airgun silencers. If that is the case, I consider it imprudent to try to continue to couple airgun silences with firearms silencers. Let there be a clean disconnect. If you're building an airgun silencer do what you can to ensure that it cannot be used on a firearm but don't compromise the quality of your design because your intent does matter and that has been ruled to be the case in an appellate decision. It is also how the statute itself is written. It is self-defeating for us to attempt to redefine what is clearly an airgun silencer as a firearms silencer. Why would we do that? If we make that assumption we've criminalized a whole segment of the airgun community and opened a door we would rather keep closed. That door has been closed by the courts, let it remain closed. There is a reason
the agency which may not be named did not appeal that decision to the SCOTUS, and it is not because they liked that decision. They know how SCOTUS would rule given the decision at the appellate court. They are afraid of loosing a significant portion of their mandate.Note: Can we all agree that we have reached the level of the absurd with the censorship of the name of this Federal agency? It absolutely stinks of GTA's stance on the word "silencer".
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From a tf.gov: Wednesday, May 19, 2021, Florida – U.S. District Judge Roy B. Dalton Jr. has sentenced Gary Dewayne Martin (31, Fort McCoy) to 24 months in federal prison for possession of an unregistered silencer.
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In connection to powder burner not Airgun yes? He most likely had other parts that were found that would fit it to a firearm/powder burner
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