22 vs 25 for lower/ quieter setup

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PrettyPetty

PrettyPetty

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Oct 14, 2022
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SE PA
Wanted to thoughts on 22 vs 25 cal for quietest but most effective setup..

My use is pesting squirrel (occasionally possum/ racoon but rare) with an emphasis on accuracy out to max of 40yds - most likely under 25yds 90% of the time

Quiet is key; I understand slower can equal quieter but also understand that slower affects FPE and can affect accuracy...

My current setup is a leshiy2 25cal running at 830fps with 40ft-lb; even with donnfl ronin and chamber it is too loud for my nosey neighors.... I was considering a 12ftlb tune and bring it down to 500-600fps but wasn't sure if just jumping to 22cal at 600-700fps would be better - and do it in a dedicated setup like a AEA HP or something. Once the leshiy is set up it can be adjusted but not on the fly (do not have repr)

Thoughts?
 
The leshiy 2 is louder than the majority of guns in its power range. Most of the noise is from the action itself, but rapport can be knocked down with longer barrels, and slower speeds. If you’re only shooting out to 40yds, a lower power tune in .25 will be fine, just don’t forget about how loopy the trajectory will be at those power levels. This is why most guys in the UK don’t go higher than .22 in their sub12 rifles
 
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Efficient tuning and a good suppressor help, but power is the elephant in the room and can't be ignored. I have a 12 fpe HW100 in .177, and it's the quietest air rifle I've ever shot. I can guarantee that your neighbors would not hear it. I routinely kill squirrels cleanly at 35 yards, which is about my maximum in the yard. As you tune down, the slower velocity of the larger pellet will maximize trajectory, so holdover will be more evident. I think a sub-12 fpe .177 would be your ideal choice.
 
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Lower energy usually means less air and easier to moderate. Your neighbors will still hear pellet impact noises. Going to .22 cal 18gr pellet around 700 fps would be quite (quiet) a reduction in energy and report while still having a reasonably flat trajectory and meeting your goal of skverl pesting inside 40yd. It becomes a matter of how well your gun groups with that setup. Possibly enough for possum headshots inside 30 yd but perhaps not for racoons unless inside 15-20yd with perfect placement.

I have a Benjamin Marauder pistol (PROD) shooting .22 JSB 18gr around 700 fps, equipped with a DonnyFL Sumo moderator. Vewwy vewwy quiet for skverl pesting. All I hear is the mechanical action and the pellet impact. I'm sure that other rifles at similar power levels that have both shroud and moderators would produce similar minimal reports, having lots of internal air expansion volume (shroud volume + moderator volume).

Squirrel hides are very tough, and on a still day, pellet impact can make a pronounced 'PAHHKK!!' sound. A really nosy neighbor with decent hearing will probably still hear impact noises in still weather *if* they are sitting quietly outdoors, like on a deck or porch.

Feinwerk
 
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These are all great responses I appreciate them all; I'm definitely now leaning towards a dedicated backyard gun vs tuning the leshiy2 - you can get a different dedicated gun for just the cost of a different caliber barrel/ magazine alone cost-wise.. I had a 1701 "prod" in 177 years back, with the marmot militia moderator it was mouse farther Quiet but I was concerned about power for humane kills - guessing it was probably ok. The aea hp ss plus is very tempting for the price and looks tunable via power wheel on the fly.
 
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I’ve went to 177 for my sons shooting squirrels while deer hunting, deer are pretty nosey too! My 22s and 25s are much louder on impact than the report. My two 177s are like a ghost in the woods and at your ranges it’s really the perfect caliber.

Edit: don’t worry about power with 177. With good shot placement they’ll never know the difference. Hell the UK boys have been doing it a long time!

Beau
 
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Now the wheels are spinning. Forgive my ignorance but now I'm wondering how many shots per fill I might get out of a prod in 177 or 22 tuned for 15ftlbs.. I was searching compact/ backpack 177 PCPs and there aren't many - so for 177 the prod might be it but the air cylinder isn't big (when compared to AEA HP SS which can be had with 300cc cylinder).

I feel like it's between the 177 prod and the aea hp ss in 22 at this point... then tune
 
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moodyblues said:
I’ve went to 177 for my sons shooting squirrels while deer hunting, deer are pretty nosey too! My 22s and 25s are much louder on impact than the report. My two 177s are like a ghost in the woods and at your ranges it’s really the perfect caliber.

Edit: don’t worry about power with 177. With good shot placement they’ll never know the difference. Hell the UK boys have been doing it a long time!

Beau
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12fpe is 12fpe. .22 or .177. The difference is in trajectory. To get a .177 to 12fpe, you need to go faster than a .22 doing the same. This means flatter trajectory, and in some cases, better accuracy.
 
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madeintheuk said:
12fpe is 12fpe. .22 or .177. The difference is in trajectory. To get a .177 to 12fpe, you need to go faster than a .22 doing the same. This means flatter trajectory, and in some cases, better accuracy.
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Yes thanks for highlighting that... accuracy would be better for 177 presumably - but distinguishable at 25yds? 40? And so then which is quieter at 12fpe - 177 or 22, probably negligible at that range. Sigh tough to decide between the calibers but the large cylinder is making me lean towards AEA...
 
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prettypetty said:
Now the wheels are spinning. Forgive my ignorance but now I'm wondering how many shots per fill I might get out of a prod in 177 or 22 tuned for 15ftlbs.. I was searching compact/ backpack 177 PCPs and there aren't many - so for 177 the prod might be it but the air cylinder isn't big (when compared to AEA HP SS which can be had with 300cc cylinder).

I feel like it's between the 177 prod and the aea hp ss in 22 at this point... then tune
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I get about 90 shots on reg with my HW100 .177, tuned to about 11.5 fpe.
 
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prettypetty said:
Yes thanks for highlighting that... accuracy would be better for 177 presumably - but distinguishable at 25yds? 40? And so then which is quieter at 12fpe - 177 or 22, probably negligible at that range. Sigh tough to decide between the calibers but the large cylinder is making me lean towards AEA...
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I would not presume better accuracy with the .177. But, assuming the same fpe, the .177 will shoot flatter, which may allow you to shoot it more accurately.
 
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Crown .25 w/380mm. Tuned for 25.4@865 42 ft/lbs and can literally be switched to 25.4@500 14 ft/lbs with just a twist of the Transfer port knob. Takes just a second to switch back and forth on the fly no retuning need. And you get tons of shots on low power. 380mm keeps it nice and compact and really quiet on low power. I keep a yardage cheat sheet on my scope.
92871626-87A3-4E73-BD58-73AE401FD013.jpeg



Check this post as well.

Anyone using a low power tune in 25?

I have a 500mm barrel maverick in 25 and wondering if anyone is using a low power tune with good accuracy? I'm talking 750-800fps max with a 25g pellet.? If your using a good "pellet"/hammer setting please share to get me close to where I'm trying to be. Thanks
www.airgunnation.com www.airgunnation.com
 
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I recently got a Leshiy2 and am also contemplating a backyard tune. I haven't done anything but shoot it as is so no experience with tuning quite yet.

But from what I understand of the design my best guess is that the more efficiently air can flow through the puck, magazine and breech the better chance one has of quieting down the action area so at least in that platform my suspicion is that 25 might have a better chance of being quieter than 22. Or at the very least maybe not a significant difference.

That is certainly the case with the Leshiy Classics which I have more experience with. Comparing 22 and 25 with the same weight projectile, same barrel length and same speed, the 25 requires less regulator pressure and/or hammer spring tension and ends up being the quieter setup.

I would be tempted to at least try the lower power tune with your 25 but do you have extra jets? I don't think they're in stock stateside at the moment and if you drilled yours out for this tune and it didn't work out it might be a while before you can go back to where you were. Unless you filled them with braze and re-drilled them to their current size?

I have no trouble with the accuracy or trajectory of my Leshiy Classic shooting Polymags well below 500 FPS. In fact it works out so that my near zero is naturally much closer which is a huge advantage for my pest situation as most of my shots are around 15 yards. I can set this rifle up for its Optimal Zero and my near zero ends up being right around 15 yards. If I hunted with this setup I'd really have to know my holds at longer distances, however.

The Leshiy2 is such a different platform, however. In reality I have no idea about how the action will cycle or how much action noise will exist at lower power in each caliber. But if you have extra jets I'd be tempted to try.
 
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Scouty said:
I recently got a Leshiy2 and am also contemplating a backyard tune. I haven't done anything but shoot it as is so no experience with tuning quite yet.

But from what I understand of the design my best guess is that the more efficiently air can flow through the puck, magazine and breech the better chance one has of quieting down the action area so at least in that platform my suspicion is that 25 might have a better chance of being quieter than 22. Or at the very least maybe not a significant difference.

That is certainly the case with the Leshiy Classics which I have more experience with. Comparing 22 and 25 with the same weight projectile, same barrel length and same speed, the 25 requires less regulator pressure and/or hammer spring tension and ends up being the quieter setup.

I would be tempted to at least try the lower power tune with your 25 but do you have extra jets? I don't think they're in stock stateside at the moment and if you drilled yours out for this tune and it didn't work out it might be a while before you can go back to where you were. Unless you filled them with braze and re-drilled them to their current size?

I have no trouble with the accuracy or trajectory of my Leshiy Classic shooting Polymags well below 500 FPS. In fact it works out so that my near zero is naturally much closer which is a huge advantage for my pest situation as most of my shots are around 15 yards. I can set this rifle up for its Optimal Zero and my near zero ends up being right around 15 yards. If I hunted with this setup I'd really have to know my holds at longer distances, however.

The Leshiy2 is such a different platform, however. In reality I have no idea about how the action will cycle or how much action noise will exist at lower power in each caliber. But if you have extra jets I'd be tempted to try.
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I think you make some very good observations, I suspect your are right with respect to efficiency with 25cal (so win on that end) but then I consider the point made from another about the BC of the 25cal pellet contributing to 'wonkiness' in flight at lower velocities (not sure how a hades 25gr 25cal flies at 500-600 ft/ sec)

So for the leshiy tune I'm guessing it could be done with just changing the jets and dialing down the internal reg? Nothing else needed?
 
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prettypetty said:
I think you make some very good observations, I suspect your are right with respect to efficiency with 25cal (so win on that end) but then I consider the point made from another about the BC of the 25cal pellet contributing to 'wonkiness' in flight at lower velocities (not sure how a hades 25gr 25cal flies at 500-600 ft/ sec)

So for the leshiy tune I'm guessing it could be done with just changing the jets and dialing down the internal reg? Nothing else needed?
Click to expand...

There is a UK Leshiy2 owner who has shot the Hades (in .25, I think) slow. I don't remember if it was at sub12 or FAC levels. Nor do I remember his barrel length or if it was Alpha or LW. But I will find that video and post it.

Jets and a hex key to turn down the internal regulator would be all you need for a basic tune. Possibly a smaller puck. I know some UK shooters have gotten into plenum plugs to reduce volume but that's more than I would want to mess with initially.

One of those people has a YouTube channel and he has depth readings for different bar settings for the original, non-adjustable regulator like yours. No guarantee your regulator will be the same but it would give you a starting point.

Edgun West has a video on low power tunes. I believe he turned the REPR down to 61 bar and put in jets drilled out to 2.0mm each. Maybe 2.0mm total?

I believe he also bore matched the puck to .22 caliber you are probably already close to .25 caliber with your puck. Easy enough to check.

I'll see if I can find those two videos as well.

Maybe put up a WTB ad and see if someone has some already drilled jets. I gather the installed jets in most Leshy2s are already drilled out to something larger than they're labeled so maybe somebody who has done some tuning has drilled set they'd be willing to part with.

If you like your current tune other than the loudness I wouldn't drill out your current jets. Save those in case you want to go back to current settings.
 
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25 Hades video. I did not re-watch it to see speeds or barrel type. If he doesn't mention it in the video or in the comments he might in other videos.


I'm pretty sure this is the low power tune video I mentioned. If it does match up with what I said about reg pressure or jet size let me know.


And finally what should be the reg video with depth readings.


Didn't have much time so I hope these are correct.
 
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Scouty said:
25 Hades video. I did not re-watch it to see speeds or barrel type. If he doesn't mention it in the video or in the comments he might in other videos.


I'm pretty sure this is the low power tune video I mentioned. If it does match up with what I said about reg pressure or jet size let me know.


And finally what should be the reg video with depth readings.


Didn't have much time so I hope these are correct.
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Yes I watched these it is good to hear that it appears I was on the right path... just seems a pain to change jets and hex tune the internal reg to get it to low power vs dials on guns like AEA but I understand the difference in mechanics (hammers vs no hammer etc) and why this is... as you point out, I like what I have but it's not what I need, so that's frustrating... tuning means it's a long way back (being dramatic I know) to return to where I am now... I would buy a spare back-end leshiy 2 and have a low power and high power set up - but that's like a $1600 option, which leads me towards a dedicated/ separate pistol if I'm putting that kind of cash into it.
 
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My 25 caliber 350mm barreled L2 repr tuned down to 120 gauged regulator sporting a factory punk pushes 27.9g pellets 775fps through a five stack HUMA Mod 30 very quietly. With a four stack setup it's still quiet and it's so easy on the fly adjustments with a repr regulator and gauge. Instead of changing jets try installing a 5.5 puck to reduce airflow at the pellet. Most of my engagements are within 65 yards max. The slower speed does not seem to bother Raccoons at all. Anyway their not bitching about it much, as their doing their KC & company get down tonight dance moves. :cool:

Note the LOP on repr stocked L2 are a bit longer, than the standard non adjustable regulated.
 
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