More Pellet Comparisons

ThomasT · Nov 11, 2022

Hello everyone,

Received my RAW back yesterday after having it converted from a .22 cal to a .177 cal with a Poly barrel and threaded end. I wanted to get some pellets down the barrel and see what pellets it might like. I shot 13 different pellets with a mixture of various brands and weights. I first zeroed my new scope using the JSB Monster Redesigned 13.43 pellets ( pellet #14 ) and then shot #10 pellet, which I actually shot out of order as shown on the photo. This is not an all conclusive test because I only shot 5 pellets at each target, but it did revel enough information to narrow down to just 5 pellets for a good starting point. Next I will shoot a full magazine of each of the top 5 pellets for a better result. I also found out that this barrel does not like the Hades Diabolo, those shots went all over the target

. It has started raining so I am shut down for the rest of this day.

ThomasT

iAMzehTOASTY1 · Nov 11, 2022

I've noticed alot of people not wanting to test in unfair weather. Is there a reason? I try to do so in fact. *I test in all conditions because weather here drastically changes at any given time while hunting.

woogie_man · Nov 11, 2022

It depends on where you are. For me personally if I waited to shoot until the weather was ideal, I would never get to shoot!

Shooting in bad weather will help you as a shooter as well. It will also show you how the gun will perform in the elements as well.

JimD · Nov 11, 2022

Looks like it likes several H&N pellets and the heavy Crosmans. My P35 in 177 does too. It shot one tin of the Crosmans as well as the H&N Baracudas but the next two tins were not good. I was curious so I invested in a head size gauge. I measured 18 pellets of the "good" Crosman tin (all I had left) and 20 of the other types I had on hand. I found the H&N Baracuda Match were more consistent in head size than any of the others and the "bad" tins of Crosmans were all over the place in head size. Some were each of the 10 sizes on the gauge. The H&N match were 3 or 4 head sizes in the sample. My gun really does not like the small head sizes helping to explain the grouping with the "bad" Crosmans. I have several tins of the regular (not Match) Baracudas and the copper plated Baracuda Power to use up and then I think I will just standardize on the Baracuda Match, probably the bigger 4.52 head size. The other Baracudas had more head size variability. They group pretty well but have occasional flyers.

ThomasT · Nov 11, 2022

iAMzehTOASTY1 said:
I've noticed alot of people not wanting to test in unfair weather. Is there a reason? I try to do so in fact. *I test in all conditions because weather here drastically changes at any given time while hunting.

Hello @iAMzehTOASTY1

Testing and Target Shooting to me are two different things. I will Target Shoot ( practice ) in adverse weather to learn better how to shoot in all conditions. I do not "Test" shoot in adverse weather because the "results" are not correct because they have been effected by the bad weather.

ThomasT

douger · Nov 11, 2022

great test i did little testing myself other day

Mycapt65 · Nov 11, 2022

Unfortunately this pellet test isn't conclusive unless several seasoning shots were taken off target when switching between brands.

The reason is different brands use different alloys of lead. Usually they mix in their own proprietary amounts of tin and or antimony. Barrel seasoning is very important for true accuracy test. It typically can take 15 to 20 shots to season the barrel when switching between brands of softer lead alloys.

Crosman uses proportionally a lot more antimony than other brands. The extra antimony is much harder for softer lead pellet alloys to clear from the barrel. It takes considerably more shots to season a barrel properly when following Crosmans. Especially if dozens or hundreds were shot.

A more conclusive test would be to shoot a row of 5 five shot groups of each pellet and average the last three group sizes. The first two groups will likely have some influence on them from the previous brand. Oddly sometimes the first two groups can be better than the the rest because some pellets perform better riding on other company's lead. Usually the first one or two will be worse than the following. Either way the true evaluation of a pellet can only be done after several seasoning shots.

Even when done as I described under the best conditions every barrel/gun combination is an individual. Results can only be used as starting point for those with the same exact model barrel and or gun. The results in other guns and barrels will vary widely.

I don't mean to rain on your parade because you had good intentions but I wanted to explain how it needs to be done to be of value.

Thesd kind of incomplete tests are quite common across forums and YouTube. The people doing them are good people who mean to provide useful information unfortunately they don't understand the importance of barrel seasoning. This is true with both powder burners and air rifles.

Thanks for trying to do a good thing for everybody. Your intention is honorable.

Be well
Ron

2L8 · Nov 12, 2022

Thank you Thomas.

Patrick

ThomasT · Nov 12, 2022

Mycapt65 said:
Unfortunately this pellet test isn't conclusive unless several seasoning shots were taken off target when switching between brands.

The reason is different brands use different alloys of lead. Usually they mix in their own proprietary amounts of tin and or antimony. Barrel seasoning is very important for true accuracy test. It typically can take 15 to 20 shots to season the barrel when switching between brands of softer lead alloys.

Crosman uses proportionally a lot more antimony than other brands. The extra antimony is much harder for softer lead pellet alloys to clear from the barrel. It takes considerably more shots to season a barrel properly when following Crosmans. Especially if dozens or hundreds were shot.

A more conclusive test would be to shoot a row of 5 five shot groups of each pellet and average the last three group sizes. The first two groups will likely have some influence on them from the previous brand. Oddly sometimes the first two groups can be better than the the rest because some pellets perform better riding on other company's lead. Usually the first one or two will be worse than the following. Either way the true evaluation of a pellet can only be done after several seasoning shots.

Even when done as I described under the best conditions every barrel/gun combination is an individual. Results can only be used as starting point for those with the same exact model barrel and or gun. The results in other guns and barrels will vary widely.

I don't mean to rain on your parade because you had good intentions but I wanted to explain how it needs to be done to be of value.

Thesd kind of incomplete tests are quite common across forums and YouTube. The people doing them are good people who mean to provide useful information unfortunately they don't understand the importance of barrel seasoning. This is true with both powder burners and air rifles.

Thanks for trying to do a good thing for everybody. Your intention is honorable.

Be well
Ron

Hey @Mycapt65

Hope your stay in the Mental Hospital is a short one

ThomasT

Oh yeah a PS: Same test that I did with my FX Crown MK II and it is shooting 200 20X scores on the 30 Yard Challange......Oh yeah, also shooting MOA at 25-yards.....Oh yeah, also shooting MOA at 50-yards, ..... I do have several more Oh yeahs but, well you know

. As we say down south here, wye Bless Your Heart

aussiegav · Nov 12, 2022

I would give the QYS pellets a try.

ThomasT · Nov 12, 2022

aussiegav said:
I would give the QYS pellets a try.

Hello @aussiegav

I have tried to find some heavier than the 9.56gr in stock in the US but with no luck. I might put some of the 9.56 on backorder and give them a try.

Thank you and have a great day,
ThomasT

PS: My son went to the University of Tasmania

Mycapt65 · Nov 12, 2022

ThomasT said:
Hey @Mycapt65

Hope your stay in the Mental Hospital is a short one

ThomasT

Oh yeah a PS: Same test that I did with my FX Crown MK II and it is shooting 200 20X scores on the 30 Yard Challange......Oh yeah, also shooting MOA at 25-yards.....Oh yeah, also shooting MOA at 50-yards, ..... I do have several more Oh yeahs but, well you know . As we say down south here, wye Bless Your Heart

OK? are you telling me your FX crown runs 20x scores with 18 or 20 different pellets on the same sheet?

thomasair · Nov 12, 2022

Mycapt66 is correct in what he’s telling you. There is also a flip side to it as well.

The discontinued HN sniper pellets would shoot beautifully small groups if they were shot out of a barrel that been shooting JSBs. It would only last about 20 shots. Once it started shooting poorly again, you had to shoot 50-60 JSBs to get it to come back…and it would, again, only last about 20 shots. The previous pellets will absolutely have an effect on how the next will shoot….especially if different alloys.

If you want valid info about how each pellet will ultimately behave….you should clean between each different pellet then shoot 40-50 before seeing how they will group.

Mike

ThomasT · Nov 12, 2022

Mycapt65 said:
OK? are you telling me your FX crown runs 20x scores with 18 or 20 different pellets on the same sheet?

Hey @Mycapt65

thomasair said:
Mycapt66 is correct in what he’s telling you. There is also a flip side to it as well.

The discontinued HN sniper pellets would shoot beautifully small groups if they were shot out of a barrel that been shooting JSBs. It would only last about 20 shots. Once it started shooting poorly again, you had to shoot 50-60 JSBs to get it to come back…and it would, again, only last about 20 shots. The previous pellets will absolutely have an effect on how the next will shoot….especially if different alloys.

If you want valid info about how each pellet will ultimately behave….you should clean between each different pellet then shoot 40-50 before seeing how they will group.

Mike

Hello @thomasair ,

Mike I know you and your vast knowledge and expertise and truly appreciate all that you share with the air gun community. However I did clearly state "This is not an all conclusive test". More import I also stated that I was just wanting to get some lead down this new barrel. At the same time I was curious what if any pellet, other than what Martin had tuned the barrel to shoot, would "work". I found the "early" results interesting and decided to share here on the Forum. I accept your reply in the most positive way and thank you very much for your interest.

With that stated, that other fellow offered a ( in my personal opinion ) a very negative reply. I am 81 years old and my time here on planet earth is limited and I just cannot afford to waste a single second not being as happy as possible all the time and hopefully making everyone around me happy.

Have a wonderful day,
ThomasT

Ranchibi · Nov 12, 2022

Thomas, glad you got her back! Have fun with the new .177 poly! You should try some NSA thru it, seen some folks (thread here called dial of death) incredible accuracy with the poly .177 and slugs.

ThomasT · Nov 12, 2022

Ranchibi said:
Thomas, glad you got her back! Have fun with the new .177 poly! You should try some NSA thru it, seen some folks (thread here called dial of death) incredible accuracy with the poly .177 and slugs.

Hello @Ranchibi

It sure is nice to have this thing back on my benchrest, now it is just a matter of time to get it completely fine tuned. I have some slugs but as you can see I did not try them, but I will as soon as the weather allows. I will find and view that thread, thanks for the info. Just a side note: boy this thing sure looks funny without that diesel muffler hanging off the end

, it's also a lot lighter in weight

Thanks,
ThomasT

DonC · Nov 12, 2022

The QYS streamlined pellet is similar in profile to the Barracudas Some of my rifles prefer BOTH of these brands equally accurate.
I also get similar results in my 10 meter FWB 603 when shooting wadcutters made by H and N Final Match and American made Vogels. Under magnification they appear exactly the same. They are equally accurate. Perhaps the QYS streamlined and/or Barracudas will reveal a solid preference in your testing.

DonC · Nov 12, 2022

By the way, a brand called Apolo is sold by Hatsun USA. I checked out their website and WOW they have a huge selecton of ammo. Comparable to H & N. I have not tested any of their products but I would sure like it if you would and let us know your findings.
Good luck in your search for a poly barrel friendly pellet.
I believe Apolo is from Argentina.

ThomasT · Nov 12, 2022

DonC said:
The QYS streamlined pellet is similar in profile to the Barracudas Some of my rifles prefer BOTH of these brands equally accurate.
I also get similar results in my 10 meter FWB 603 when shooting wadcutters made by H and N Final Match and American made Vogels. Under magnification they appear exactly the same. They are equally accurate. Perhaps the QYS streamlined and/or Barracudas will reveal a solid preference in your testing.

Hello @DonC

Yes I have added QYS to my "to be tried list", and as you saw several of the Baracuda did well. I was pleasantly surprised to see the Copper coated H&N Field Target Trophy Power 8.8gr do so well. I shoot these a lot in my Bandit.

I have not had good luck shooting wad cutters beyond 10-meters.

ThomasT

ThomasT · Nov 12, 2022

DonC said:
By the way, a brand called Apolo is sold by Hatsun USA. I checked out their website and WOW they have a huge selecton of ammo. Comparable to H & N. I have not tested any of their products but I would sure like it if you would and let us know your findings.
Good luck in your search for a poly barrel friendly pellet.
I believe Apolo is from Argentina.

Hello again @DonC

I will look into the Apolo and if I buy any will surely give a report about them here.

ThomasT

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