Crown vs maverick vs ?

Hondajunkie01 said:

So it seems like most people move to the maverick platform when they want more power. Did you need the extra FPE for hunting or it just the nature urge for more power ?

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Hunting, but there's a LONG history associated with the evolution of my Maverick lol. I won't get into all the nitry gritty details, but I would first say that I have developed a different mindset than most airgunners that I've encountered, in that I center everything that I do with my barrels and rifles around specific slugs and pellets that I've chosen to run.

In the case of my Mav, it started off as a .30 Compact with a 37" twist Superior that shoots 44.75 JSBs better than anything else that I've had (tied with my 700mm pellet liner that I kept from my old MKII Impact). The problem was that was the only projectile that it's great with. The 44.75's drift / drop too much energy downrange for my taste. So my first goal with the rifle was to set it up to shoot heavier and flatter shooting ammo without compromising the overall length. Wanted it to be capable of shooting coyotes inside 100y and smaller game to 150y regardless of what the wind was doing.

I intially machined a 26" twist TJ for it in a comparable length. When I had my first EVOL 30 (with a 26" twist TJ), Dale Riggert (Varmint Knockers) sent me some .30cal slugs to test out in different lead alloys (ranging from BHN 5 to 9). They were 62gr DB-HPs with a small meplat, deep cavity with a real high speed ogive and small shank. These are now referred to as his original style 62gr. They hit harder and penetrated deeper than the 65.5 NSAs and the 66gr predecessor (without fragmenting). The RA4 BC in my TJs averages 0.142, so they're good in the wind for an airgun slug.

Eventually, I would up machining more TJ barrels for the Mav (330, 502, 600, and 720mm). I also setup a 700mm Superior Heavy and took one of my 600mm Heavy .22 liners from one of my final Taipan Veteran projects and adapted the barrel system that I developed and applied it to the Mav (with some different modifications).

Forward to today, my coyote hunting config consists of either the 600mm TJ shooting the orignal 62gr in (BHN 8.5) at 955 and this 700mm Heavy shooting the NEW style 62gr in the standard/softer alloy at 1002 (BC 0.144). My 600/.22 barrel has been setup to shoot 40gr Griffin 2S nose RBT (currently at 957 / RA4 BC 0.163) for NRL22. I can push it harder with a heavier sprint, but it's still not making nearly as much power as it was in my Taipan "Supervet" rifles, which shot them at 1140FPS/600mm). That said, there are many advantages over the Taipan with this Mav (side lever, high cap mags from Midwest Elite, etcetera. The K&L chassis also makes it fairly bombproof.

Hondajunkie01 said:

That is an impressive picture sir! I think I’m with you. I don’t know how often I will need extreme power or even slugs for that matter. My local pest are pigeons, squirrels. I have yotes also but I normally use a 223 or 243 on them

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WTH a 223 on a squirrel? Might as well use a 50 bmg and call it a day. I use a 17hmr and even that's a touch over the top. Those 223's can almost level a city.

HogKiller said:

WTH a 223 on a squirrel? Might as well use a 50 bmg and call it a day. I use a 17hmr and even that's a touch over the top. Those 223's can almost level a city.

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Reread his post. He said he uses 223 for yotes, not squirrels

Hondajunkie01 said:

I jump into hobbies head first that buying both is very possible lol.

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Well, in that vein, jump in on a Skout

madeintheuk said:

Reread his post. He said he uses 223 for yotes, not squirrels

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Must learn to read, but still it would be interesting.

I have both a crown and a maverick. Both currently set up for .25 cal with the crown running the 380mm barrel and the maverick running a 700mm heavy liner. I have run the crown with the arrow barrel and .22 and .25 500mm barrels and the maverick from .22 500mm to .30 700mm. I shoot the crown daily, but wouldn't want to run it any longer than 500mm for hunting. It's a laser with a great trigger that shoulders well and typically I feed it the .25 hades. It will run the 26 grain nelson slugs with the 500mm barrel, but just barely has the power to do so. My maverick shoots the Nielsen 34.9's at 950 fps amazingly well. The crown shoulders, shoots and stalks better within its power and size limitations. The maverick has more power and can run longer barrels and still remain somewhat agile, given that it is inherently more clunky and less refined than the crown.

Hondajunkie01 said:

Lol 50 could work for a squirrel. If I’m using powder for squirrels is normally 22

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My go to because zero thinking is involved and ...I only shoot ground squirrels...not eating them...is a .17HMR.

Since a couple of weeks , I hesitate to buy a Maverick or not . 'cause I've never trusted my Crown 1st generation , whatever the caliber , settings or pellets. It can be very accurate but , in my opinion , not consistent enough ; too much POI shifting problems . The way the barrel assembly is kept in place in the receiver by 2 tiny grub screws doesn't make this system stiff enough , for me. On the other hand , the Crown has high praise from many owners , so maybe there is a mismatching between this gun an me.

So , when I noticed that the Maverick barrel was supported in two places ahead of the receiver , I wonder if this gun could be "POI free" , and so more consistent that the Crown.

Hondajunkie01 said:

Didn't the crown II change the mounting setup? I thought I had read that somewhere. I have read problems with the original crown but have seen too man POI problems with the mavericks

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Yes the Crown 2 has 4 screws to hold the barrel assembly , but I don't think this adds more stiffness to the system. I'll probably turn myself to Vulcan or Kalybrgun

aldea6 said:

Yes the Crown 2 has 4 screws to hold the barrel assembly , but I don't think this adds more stiffness to the system. I'll probably turn myself to Vulcan or Kalybrgun

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I’m a little confused on how you think the poi changes are caused by barrel stiffness, unless you bump the barrel often. Barrel stiffness has little to do with poi changes, and more to do with harmonics. Barrels like the fx are more susceptible to higher powers and pressures bc they “wobble” more. The tame those harmonics, they have come out with all sorts of barrel stiffening and tensioning systems. So they all fix the problem? Only if the problem is there. The fx crown superlite barrel systems are ver accurate, and super lightweight compared to other similar powered and length airguns. As long as you tune for harmonics, you will see very tight groups. Poi changes are only due to bumping the barrel, or changes in velocity, which aren’t barrel replayed for the most part. I have owned a couple crowns, and still own a 22 crown which now sports a 380 barrel, and I can say from experience, I have noticed ZERO poi changes with any of my crowns from first shot out of storage to last shot of the day. It’s the most consistent platform I currently, or have ever owned, and I’ve owned a LOT of airguns across brands.

madeintheuk said:

I’m a little confused on how you think the poi changes are caused by barrel stiffness, unless you bump the barrel often. Barrel stiffness has little to do with poi changes, and more to do with harmonics. Barrels like the fx are more susceptible to higher powers and pressures bc they “wobble” more. The tame those harmonics, they have come out with all sorts of barrel stiffening and tensioning systems. So they all fix the problem? Only if the problem is there. The fx crown superlite barrel systems are ver accurate, and super lightweight compared to other similar powered and length airguns. As long as you tune for harmonics, you will see very tight groups. Poi changes are only due to bumping the barrel, or changes in velocity, which aren’t barrel replayed for the most part. I have owned a couple crowns, and still own a 22 crown which now sports a 380 barrel, and I can say from experience, I have noticed ZERO poi changes with any of my crowns from first shot out of storage to last shot of the day. It’s the most consistent platform I currently, or have ever owned, and I’ve owned a LOT of airguns across brands.

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I took my crown out this morning, after it sat for several weeks with 200 bar in it. The reg had not crept at all (surprised me), and I put one shot on paper and the ran my KYL from 2”-1/4” with no misses at 53 yards. This gun has been moved around a lot, and I once inadvertently stuck my barrel into the ceiling fan while looking at the gauges, surprisingly no POI change. This is a 500mm, so that may help. I also have a carbon fiber tube on my liner.

madeintheuk said:

I’m a little confused on how you think the poi changes are caused by barrel stiffness, unless you bump the barrel often. Barrel stiffness has little to do with poi changes, and more to do with harmonics. Barrels like the fx are more susceptible to higher powers and pressures bc they “wobble” more. The tame those harmonics, they have come out with all sorts of barrel stiffening and tensioning systems. So they all fix the problem? Only if the problem is there. The fx crown superlite barrel systems are ver accurate, and super lightweight compared to other similar powered and length airguns. As long as you tune for harmonics, you will see very tight groups. Poi changes are only due to bumping the barrel, or changes in velocity, which aren’t barrel replayed for the most part. I have owned a couple crowns, and still own a 22 crown which now sports a 380 barrel, and I can say from experience, I have noticed ZERO poi changes with any of my crowns from first shot out of storage to last shot of the day. It’s the most consistent platform I currently, or have ever owned, and I’ve owned a LOT of airguns across brands.

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I understand your explanations , madeintheuk , and you are right on that point . If you don't "touch" the barrel there is no reason for POI to shift . I just notice that , when I take the gun from its rack , most of the time I have to re-zero it. The Crown stands up right in the rack , that means the shroud supports a little pressure . Could be the reason of the problem ? Possible. I built an horizontal support to see if any difference is can be noticed. Maybe a shorter barrel , 380mm could help too. I really would like to fix this problem; the Crown is a pleasure to shoot regarding the action smoothness , ergonomics , magazine...
Below are the pics of the two stands.

By the way , is the 380mm less accurate than longer ones ?

HogKiller said:

WTH a 223 on a squirrel? Might as well use a 50 bmg and call it a day. I use a 17hmr and even that's a touch over the top. Those 223's can almost level a city.

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I guess I should retire my 22-250AI and 243AI lol. Although they make regular hits between 400-500yards and leave no trace. And out here we have ground squirrels which are a lot different than the red/gray delicious tree squirrels. Guess it depends if you want to preserve it or make it disappear.

To the OP imo the Maverick and Wildcat are best in compact form. They feel great offhand walking around, and have enough power to shoot itty bitty pellets or medium slugs if you want. The compacts can push heavier slugs too, but need more parts and give up a lot of shot count. If want more I think the best FX option is a longer barrel Impact. They have better barrel support options and proven performance options. Havent shot a Crown yet, but they look mighty good for some bench work.

aldea6 said:

I understand your explanations , madeintheuk , and you are right on that point . If you don't "touch" the barrel there is no reason for POI to shift . I just notice that , when I take the gun from its rack , most of the time I have to re-zero it. The Crown stands up right in the rack , that means the shroud supports a little pressure . Could be the reason of the problem ? Possible. I built an horizontal support to see if any difference is can be noticed. Maybe a shorter barrel , 380mm could help too. I really would like to fix this problem; the Crown is a pleasure to shoot regarding the action smoothness , ergonomics , magazine...
Below are the pics of the two stands.

By the way , is the 380mm less accurate than longer ones ?

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No. The 380 barrel is not less accurate. The only thing a shorter barrel will give you is less velocity at a given reg pressure and hammer. If anything, the 380 barrel will give you better accuracy at higher reg pressures and hammer spring preloads based on the fact the pellet is in the barrel for less time, so if the shot cycle is violent like they tend to be at higher pressures, they are less hold sensitive with the shorter barrel. That being said, you won’t be able to shoot heavy ammo and slugs and higher speeds without some go fast bits with that barrel.

madeintheuk said:

No. The 380 barrel is not less accurate. The only thing a shorter barrel will give you is less velocity at a given reg pressure and hammer. If anything, the 380 barrel will give you better accuracy at higher reg pressures and hammer spring preloads based on the fact the pellet is in the barrel for less time, so if the shot cycle is violent like they tend to be at higher pressures, they are less hold sensitive with the shorter barrel. That being said, you won’t be able to shoot heavy ammo and slugs and higher speeds without some go fast bits with that barrel.

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Thanks

Another option is to wait a little while and see what new version of the Panthera/Dynamic Block FX is going to release. I think a 500mm Crown/Panthera would be pretty rad.

If I was going to buy an FX "black rifle" it would be the Maverick. I am not a tinkerer as such and I like all of my simple "tuning" controls on the outside of the gun. For traditional rifle geometry, pinpoint accuracy and long range coyote slug hunting, the Crown checks all the boxes. I own the Crown but not any tactical black PCP rifle. As for "tactical" PCPs, I really like the looks of the KalibrGun Cricket II Tactical with wood. Reminds me (sort of) of an AK 47 or MAC 90 with dark metal and blond wood. My next rifle (hopefully last one) is going to be a .30 cal. This KalibrGun comes in .30 so it would be a possibility. The youtube videos I have watch on it are positive. More than likely though I will end up with another Daystate, the Wolverine R HP in .303. That gun exudes quality.

Goldwing said:

Had the Maverick, sold it and got 2 Crown's because the Maverick like many airguns have the dam mag under your ear, never again will I own a gun with the action designed where the mag is in the back of the trigger

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This is the reason I bought the Maverick! 28" barrel in a package shorter than a standard 16" barreled airgun. Bullpup in a tactical package, 580cc airtank, hard to understand the discontent.

orangeokie said:

If I was going to buy an FX "black rifle" it would be the Maverick. I am not a tinkerer as such and I like all of my simple "tuning" controls on the outside of the gun. For traditional rifle geometry, pinpoint accuracy and long range coyote slug hunting, the Crown checks all the boxes. I own the Crown but not any tactical black PCP rifle. As for "tactical" PCPs, I really like the looks of the KalibrGun Cricket II Tactical with wood. Reminds me (sort of) of an AK 47 or MAC 90 with dark metal and blond wood. My next rifle (hopefully last one) is going to be a .30 cal. This KalibrGun comes in .30 so it would be a possibility. The youtube videos I have watch on it are positive. More than likely though I will end up with another Daystate, the Wolverine R HP in .303. That gun exudes quality.
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You can't be wrong with the Kalibrgun Tactical . I get five Kalibrgun , love them all but the Tactical 60 in .22 is my favorite. Accurate , consistent , very well built . POI shifting problems simply don't exist with these guns . I saw the video from Steve about the .30 and , as he said ," Take the gun out of the box , load and shoot it . " It's that simple . .
Here a pic of my gun . Just put a small Huma moderator and an air stripper .