Is shooting lead pellets safe for the enviornment?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
stanginthe11s said:
as far as oxidizing stopping leaching, I don't think so but im not a chemist. oxidized lead is lead oxide, which I believe is water soluble. the presence of lead is naturally occurring without the help of humans, it takes quite a bit for it to be of real concern.
Click to expand...
I am. What Qball posted above is essentially correct. There’s almost nothing that won’t leach at all. But, it has negligible leaching at higher pH. When pH hits 5 big changes start. The solutions we use to determine whether the amount of lead in the ground is a threat to water are much more aggressive than that and there’s still not a great deal of leaching. Other things like soil porosity, pH of underlying soils, depth to water, etc. are actually much more important. The reason we generally remove lead shot is because the surface concentrations are going to exceed safe exposure levels. Similar to what JimD posted. When you start considering kids rolling in the dirt, eating the dirt, inhaling particles, eating things grown in it, etc. that’s where you have an issue. If you think you might sell in future then use a pellet trap. Trust me.

JimD, I read that article several months ago. Had the same quibbles you did. Obviously has a slant. Look at the org name ha ha. The more interesting bits are where they reference lead concentrations in blood in a sample population. I’d like to see more data. Like to see how much game those with 50% higher lead concentrations are consuming. And when their most recent consumption was prior to testing. Etc. My SWAG would be there’s something to it. But, reading between the lines I think most of it could be addressed by being careful with how you dress and process as you inferred above.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 450BM, qball and Treefrog
Upvote 0
JimD said:
I reviewed the paper linked by FIDI_G. Thanks for linking it. I only examined a few of the references in the paper but read the whole paper. I think it is a good example of the material being used to try and ban lead ammunition. I would agree with FIDI_G's assessment, it raises significant concerns. In my judgement, that is exactly what is is designed to do. The references embeded in the paper don't give me the same message as the paper ascribes to them in all cases. For instance one paper looked at blood lead levels of police officers and instructors before and after they shot at indoor and outdoor ranges. Their blood lead level went up, especially the instructors on the indoor range. They spent the most time at the range. But they also measured the airborne dust levels at the indoor range and it exceeded the OSHA limit. So my take on that paper is it demonstrates if you shoot at a range that doesn't appropriately managed the lead dust you may get elevated levels of lead in your blood. The paper suggests that the paper they reference demonstrates risk of lead to people who shoot guns. That is kind of true but distorted in my view. The last indoor range I visited has a continuous flow of water over the backstop to minimize any lead dust in the air. I doubt shooting there did much of anything to my lead level.

A more applicable paper they referenced looked at levels of lead in deer and sheep shot with a 308 and shotguns with slugs. They used bullets in the 308 that were simple lead filled jacket design and solid copper design. In the shotgun they used foster slugs which are just chunks of lead and sabots of pistol bullets that are lead filled jacket construction. No unsurprisingly the bullets without lead did not put lead in the meat. But more of interest to airgunners, the shotguns and muzzle loaders (forgot them) did not put nearly as much lead in the carcase as the center fire rifle - the 308. The lead was also more localized by the lower velocity shotguns and muzzle loaders with it almost totally within a couple inches of the holes the projectile made. I think that compares better to what we do with pellets, particularly non expanding ones. Any contamination could be avoided pretty effectively by avoiding the blood shot meat around the hole(s). The authors seemed more interested in pushing for solid copper bullets, however. They did not make the somewhat obvious observation based upon their data that the contamination was quite localized - until the meat was rinsed. Rinsing the mead with the blood shot meat still present seemed to spread the lead somewhat in the carcase. But the level of lead in the carcase was much lower for the lower velocity guns - which still were around 1500 fps so higher velocity than airguns.

Groups with lead concerns have successfully used similar data and observations to eliminate lead in automobile fuel and in house paint. It is also not used in plumbing solder now either. So to see them go after lead in ammunition shouldn't be surprising. Misusing or twisting data to support their conclusions - or the most draconian measures to be taken - is unfortunately also not surprising. They've apparently already convinced some states not to use donated game meat to help feed homeless people.
Click to expand...
The push for copper bullets is biggest in the west where condors range. The endangered California condors. I cannot find the paper - it is more than 15 years old - where a couple of veterinarians got in on a cull deer hunt. They ex-rayed the carcass and found lead fragments, The gutted the deer and found fragments in the gut pile and in the carcass that were invisible to the naked eye. All lead bullets left an exit wound in the critters. Unfortunately, condors are very sensitive to lead - and there was enuf in a gut pile or in an unrecovered critter to poison them. When gps-collared condors stop moving, they go out and pick them up, remove the lead from their system and return them to the field. Bald eagles are also susceptible to lead poisoning and the timing is consistent with deer hunts creating gut piles. This is becoming an issue in at least half a dozen states. Some eagles are rehabbed, some are put down, and many are not found. the ONLY weak link in this science is that one cannot say the lead from hunter A's bullet caused the poisoning in eagle B.

Copper bullet performance on game is outstanding; I hve taken more than 20 animals with Barnes bullets. Antelope, deer, elk and even a bison. Recovered only 2 bullets, both muzzle loader bullets from bull elk Once you switch you won't go back

To the original posters question: the lead from your shooting will not likely have a detrimental effect unless the lead gets eaten somehow, most likely in a carcass. A bullet trap removes any doubt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 450BM, qball and Treefrog
Upvote 1

Or look here..

The Big Map @ OurAirports

ourairports.com ourairports.com

Make sure to zoom in on the map of your area. Lead has been banned in a lot of things, but not the gas used in small planes.

There are close to 5400 muni air fields nationwide.. down from around 5900.

If you live next to one of these toxic lead particulate generation plants, I’m pretty sure you’ll be expiring within the next week or so. 😩

Two things from links I posted in one of the other “we’re all gonna die and destroy the environment” lead threads.. pure lead is not bioavailable IE breakdown easily nor does it bioaccumulate IE get passed from prey to predator unless the actual lead particles are eaten. Furthermore, once lead is ingested and particles passed, levels of lead in the blood return to “normal”. It does not act in the same fashion as DDT. Refer to the CA condor link discussing blood lead levels before, during, and after hunting seasons. Lead levels increase during and just after fall then drop to normal levels in spring. They know this because each condor in the wild is trapped and tested twice a year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 450BM and Treefrog
Upvote 0
450BM said:
Well if you’re worried about a few thousand pellets on your property, imagine what it’s like living near a trap or sporting clays club! 7 lbs of lead per shooter and I’ve been at lots of events with over 100 shooters!
Click to expand...
hey you could recycle plastic water bottles into shotgun loads ! then you don't have to worry about lead anymore .and you would be recycling plastic🤦‍♂️ .DOH!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 450BM
Upvote 0
Those same Condors have been filmed peeling off lead paint off ranger towers, and picking up lead wheel weights off the side of the road; only to fly off and feed to their beebees. America has been using lead to hunt animals for more than 200 years, and with less frequency each year. The lead found in birds can and has been attributed to several other sources. I guess it just depends on what experts you want to listen to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Uglyjohn, 450BM and beerthief
Upvote 0
Birds require very low levels for acute toxicity from lead. If they eat pellets off the ground for grit or animals killed with lead shot, they will likely die from lead poisoning.
The UN has a rather lengthy report on the subject and is pushing for a global ban on lead shot of any kind.
So clean up your mess or add to the problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: qball
Upvote 0
Squack said:
Birds require very low levels for acute toxicity from lead. If they eat pellets off the ground for grit or animals killed with lead shot, they will likely die from lead poisoning.
The UN has a rather lengthy report on the subject and is pushing for a global ban on lead shot of any kind.
So clean up your mess or add to the problem.
Click to expand...
Wont matter. There have been studies in the US that contradict the lead banners. Gonna happen like a steamroller.
 
Upvote 0
I am so confused. I thought this was all pretty plain. Have I been led down a primrose path? Or, lead down the path?
Was it all a ride in a lead zeppelin? Perhaps led zeppelin?
Flood plain, or the flat plane of my shooting bench where I expel lead pellets that have led to the deaths of so many
plains animals. :unsure:
I hate homophones. Wait, homo phones?

Darn it, I just want to shoot something!

Doc
 
Upvote 0
rodbuilder said:
The push for copper bullets is biggest in the west where condors range. The endangered California condors. I cannot find the paper - it is more than 15 years old - where a couple of veterinarians got in on a cull deer hunt. They ex-rayed the carcass and found lead fragments, The gutted the deer and found fragments in the gut pile and in the carcass that were invisible to the naked eye. All lead bullets left an exit wound in the critters. Unfortunately, condors are very sensitive to lead - and there was enuf in a gut pile or in an unrecovered critter to poison them. When gps-collared condors stop moving, they go out and pick them up, remove the lead from their system and return them to the field. Bald eagles are also susceptible to lead poisoning and the timing is consistent with deer hunts creating gut piles. This is becoming an issue in at least half a dozen states. Some eagles are rehabbed, some are put down, and many are not found. the ONLY weak link in this science is that one cannot say the lead from hunter A's bullet caused the poisoning in eagle B.

Copper bullet performance on game is outstanding; I hve taken more than 20 animals with Barnes bullets. Antelope, deer, elk and even a bison. Recovered only 2 bullets, both muzzle loader bullets from bull elk Once you switch you won't go back

To the original posters question: the lead from your shooting will not likely have a detrimental effect unless the lead gets eaten somehow, most likely in a carcass. A bullet trap removes any doubt.
Click to expand...


I've also seen the lead fragment X-ray and that was an eye opener! So much so I wouldn't eat game meat shot with lead bullets again.

Also agree that copper bullets are exceptionally effective at hunting I don't understand the resistance, I would use copper bullets for performance reason alone if/when I hunt bigger games again. They deform quite well while usually punch right through, bullets that fragment don't tend to punch through which makes it an unethical shot or at least a long track/recovery.
 
Upvote 0
Home / News-IANS / Environment-Wildlife / Lead poisoning killing birds, humans too: UN body

Lead poisoning killing birds, humans too: UN body​

​

Bonn
Image


I think the UN article said shotgun pellets..which are considerably different in size from airgun pellets. No?
 
Upvote 0
lbc_PSI said:
Home / News-IANS / Environment-Wildlife / Lead poisoning killing birds, humans too: UN body

Lead poisoning killing birds, humans too: UN body​

​

Bonn
Image


I think the UN article said shotgun pellets..which are considerably different in size from airgun pellets. No?
Click to expand...
i think the UN is all Elected or appointed karen's
 
  • Like
Reactions: fishing43 and rcs9250
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Resources
Menu