I can see NO love here..............
- Thread starter Nvreloader
- Start date
Nvreloader,
PCPs and Springers are hot topics, no argument, however, CO2 and pump-ups are quickly suggested when a member presents a scenario where they might make a better fit. Dragonfly, in particular, is mentioned as a good pump-up to checkout. Search the archives for "Dragonfly," you'll see what I mean. WM
PCPs and Springers are hot topics, no argument, however, CO2 and pump-ups are quickly suggested when a member presents a scenario where they might make a better fit. Dragonfly, in particular, is mentioned as a good pump-up to checkout. Search the archives for "Dragonfly," you'll see what I mean. WM
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I plan to buy one. I thought BB Pelliters's review was pretty convincing that it is a good value. I love pumpers. This one and a vintage 392 or 397.
Seneca Dragonfly Mark 2 multi-pump rifle: Part Sixteen | Blog | Pyramyd AIR
It has taken us 15 reports to get to this point, but today we are about to see what this rifle can really do.
www.pyramydair.com
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It's a solid rifle. BB's review on the .22 model was stellar, to say the least. I'm a Blue Streak owner and fan. I'm interested and will likely pick up a Dragonfly eventually. The first thing to do with it will be to tighten every single screw.
It is interesting to see how springer-centric this particular board is. Never much cared for them myself. PCPs have more peripheral equipment than I'm interested in owning, so pumpers are my mainstay, with a side of co2. I'm all about honing the perishable PB skills.
Cheers,
J~
It is interesting to see how springer-centric this particular board is. Never much cared for them myself. PCPs have more peripheral equipment than I'm interested in owning, so pumpers are my mainstay, with a side of co2. I'm all about honing the perishable PB skills.
Cheers,
J~
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I have wrecked my shoulders and a new injury is keeping me from even thinking break or pumpers.
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Was reading Pyramid Air Reviews, over 11% of reviews were 1 or 2 stars. Seems a big complaint is the flimsy pump linkage. Anyway, in the future when I buy an air gun, going to shoot it a lot as fast as I can to see if I got a lemon.
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Consider many members grew up with pumpers and might feel to have moved onward and upward into the world of precision springers and PCPs, rarely looking back. Retired to Florida in 2005, began a desperate struggle against an infestation of badly mannered crows with my trusted Crosman 760 Pumpmaster. Losing proposition as crows flew out of range, 30 yards, or so, scolding me from the pines while I sat in the blind. Two years ago, they didn't notice a slight difference in weaponry as I'd switched the 760 for an FX Wildcat MK3 .30 Sniper, a gun capable of all day dime-size groups @ 50 yds, leaving muzzle @ 70FPE. After firefight, with four on the ground, they realized their world had completely changed forever. No disparity intended and best of luck with pump-ups, it's only PCPs for me. WM
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I've looked at them. But since I already have several pumpers. I will shoot them when my urge for one arises.
Benjamin 342
Sheridan SS
Sheridan BS
Xisico B5-10
Excellent .21 roundball
Excellent .177 roundball
Excellent .21 pellet/roundball
Benjamin 342
Sheridan SS
Sheridan BS
Xisico B5-10
Excellent .21 roundball
Excellent .177 roundball
Excellent .21 pellet/roundball
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I personally love pumpers just hard on worn out shoulders, pumping on Dragonfly is supposed to be easier so would be a good choice.. I have a .22 Crosman 140 right now and its very accurate with a scope mounted, nickel size 5 shot groups at 32 yds.
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it all started with a Webley Tempest in 1990 , then a 1377 , then the modding of 1377. next a junk yard find cocked loaded winchester break barrel in the junk pile . IT all starts so simple .
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Well, here is some Love'in for the DF II, 22 cal,
I have been testing mine with these results............
But first a Question,
If you have an air inlet valve hole of .140.0" and one at 156.2",
would they produce/have the same pressure, at the same number of pumps, when pumped with the same air volume?
Would the Air Ventury effect of the air inlet hole of the valve,
store more internal valve pressure with the .140" hole,
as compared to the 156" hole?
OEM air hole was .102".
This is in ref to tests G & H,
Test G H ***
1 pump = 262--252 -10fps
2 pumps= 377--305 -72fps
3 pumps= 390--383 -7 fps
4 pumps= 436--416 -20fps
5 pumps= 488--449 -39fps
6 pumps= 498--524 +74fps
7 pumps= 639--567 -72fps
8 pumps= 754--600 -154fps
9 pumps= 810--633 -177fps
10 pumps= 833-690* -143fps
11 pumps= 833-711 -122fps
12 pumps= 833-754 -79fps
13 pumps= 770-833
14 pumps= 770-833
15 pumps= 770-833
There was no extra air left after any pump test, for any shot.
* Target level for 10 pumps @ 750-800 fps.
*** Difference between H to G, in fps
G test was with the .145.0" dia valve air inlet hole, no other changes.
H test was with the .156.2" dia valve air inlet hole, no other changes
Summary of all the tests = 22 cal = 14 gr Crosman ammo
Test A B C D E E-1 F G H H-1
1 pump = 265-288-262-255-259-269-269-262--252-236
2 pumps= 288-321-380-383-383------393-377--305-367
3 pumps= 322-354-462-465-465------452-390--383-449
4 pumps= 465-361-524-528-521------479-436--416-495
5 pumps= 515-597-574-570-567-574-538-488--449-511
6 pumps= 567-610-620-600-600------623-498--524-574
7 pumps= 600-616-643-626-623------646-639--567-597
8 pumps= 633-620-672-649-643------652-754--600-613
9 pumps= 652-651-688-659-662------708-810--633-757
10 pumps= 666-688-698-672-679-692-728-833-690-813
11 pumps= 678-----------688-683------744-833-711-856
12 pumps= 679-----------702-712------770-833-754-869
13 pumps= 681-----------712-718------770-833-801
14 pumps= 680----------------721------770-833-801
15 pumps= 679----------------728-741-770-833-801
There was no extra air left after any pump test, for any shot.
(A Test)
Here is the full 15 shot+ pumps test, 3 pumps per the number,
pumps were a complete cycle, open then closed arm pump arm,
per each pump stroke, with the OEM 18/19# spring, full length,
OEM Hammer weight = 875 grs, 14 gr Crosman ammo
(B Test)
1 complete turn on pump rod, only changed to this spring
A 11# Flat wire spring, 5" long, .415" O/S Dia, .252" I/S dia, 35 coils,
.023" thick Flat wire, coil bound at less than 1.030", opened spring
tunnel of OEM Hammer up to .420" Dia to fit Flat Wire Spring.
(C Test)
1 >10 pumps x 3 each per pump,
2 complete turns on pump rod head, nothing else changed,
Using the same above spring/hammer.
(D Test)
1 >15 pumps x 3 tests per pump number,
2 complete turns on pump rod head, same spring/hammer as above
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter
at valve inlet.
(E Test)
Same test as all the previous tests, the only item changed was the hammer spring. Using a OEM 6/7# Storm Rider Round wire spring, 3.360" long,
.384" O/S Dia, .300" I/S dia, 25 coils, .035" thick round wire, coil bound at 1.020", 14 gr Crosman ammo, OEM Hammer,
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(E-1 Test
I found this to be very interesting with this DF II, 22cal rifle
I lubed all pivot points, and the oil wiper seal and shot these Oiled 3 pump tests. Same as above tests.
(F Test)
Same test as all the previous tests, the only item changed
was the hammer weight to 533 gr and Hammer spring weight of 9-10#'s.
Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, .415" O/S Dia, .265" I/S Dia,.022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, 14 gr Crosman ammo. 2 complete turns on pump rod head.
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(G Test)
Same test as the above test, only item changed was, all air passageways opened up to .145.0" Dia.
(H Test)
Same test as the above test, all air passageways opened up to .1562" Dia.
There was no extra air left after any pump test, for any shot.
Thanks All,
Your thoughts and suggestions.................
I have been testing mine with these results............
But first a Question,
If you have an air inlet valve hole of .140.0" and one at 156.2",
would they produce/have the same pressure, at the same number of pumps, when pumped with the same air volume?
Would the Air Ventury effect of the air inlet hole of the valve,
store more internal valve pressure with the .140" hole,
as compared to the 156" hole?
OEM air hole was .102".
This is in ref to tests G & H,
Test G H ***
1 pump = 262--252 -10fps
2 pumps= 377--305 -72fps
3 pumps= 390--383 -7 fps
4 pumps= 436--416 -20fps
5 pumps= 488--449 -39fps
6 pumps= 498--524 +74fps
7 pumps= 639--567 -72fps
8 pumps= 754--600 -154fps
9 pumps= 810--633 -177fps
10 pumps= 833-690* -143fps
11 pumps= 833-711 -122fps
12 pumps= 833-754 -79fps
13 pumps= 770-833
14 pumps= 770-833
15 pumps= 770-833
There was no extra air left after any pump test, for any shot.
* Target level for 10 pumps @ 750-800 fps.
*** Difference between H to G, in fps
G test was with the .145.0" dia valve air inlet hole, no other changes.
H test was with the .156.2" dia valve air inlet hole, no other changes
Summary of all the tests = 22 cal = 14 gr Crosman ammo
Test A B C D E E-1 F G H H-1
1 pump = 265-288-262-255-259-269-269-262--252-236
2 pumps= 288-321-380-383-383------393-377--305-367
3 pumps= 322-354-462-465-465------452-390--383-449
4 pumps= 465-361-524-528-521------479-436--416-495
5 pumps= 515-597-574-570-567-574-538-488--449-511
6 pumps= 567-610-620-600-600------623-498--524-574
7 pumps= 600-616-643-626-623------646-639--567-597
8 pumps= 633-620-672-649-643------652-754--600-613
9 pumps= 652-651-688-659-662------708-810--633-757
10 pumps= 666-688-698-672-679-692-728-833-690-813
11 pumps= 678-----------688-683------744-833-711-856
12 pumps= 679-----------702-712------770-833-754-869
13 pumps= 681-----------712-718------770-833-801
14 pumps= 680----------------721------770-833-801
15 pumps= 679----------------728-741-770-833-801
There was no extra air left after any pump test, for any shot.
(A Test)
Here is the full 15 shot+ pumps test, 3 pumps per the number,
pumps were a complete cycle, open then closed arm pump arm,
per each pump stroke, with the OEM 18/19# spring, full length,
OEM Hammer weight = 875 grs, 14 gr Crosman ammo
(B Test)
1 complete turn on pump rod, only changed to this spring
A 11# Flat wire spring, 5" long, .415" O/S Dia, .252" I/S dia, 35 coils,
.023" thick Flat wire, coil bound at less than 1.030", opened spring
tunnel of OEM Hammer up to .420" Dia to fit Flat Wire Spring.
(C Test)
1 >10 pumps x 3 each per pump,
2 complete turns on pump rod head, nothing else changed,
Using the same above spring/hammer.
(D Test)
1 >15 pumps x 3 tests per pump number,
2 complete turns on pump rod head, same spring/hammer as above
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter
at valve inlet.
(E Test)
Same test as all the previous tests, the only item changed was the hammer spring. Using a OEM 6/7# Storm Rider Round wire spring, 3.360" long,
.384" O/S Dia, .300" I/S dia, 25 coils, .035" thick round wire, coil bound at 1.020", 14 gr Crosman ammo, OEM Hammer,
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(E-1 Test
I found this to be very interesting with this DF II, 22cal rifle
I lubed all pivot points, and the oil wiper seal and shot these Oiled 3 pump tests. Same as above tests.
(F Test)
Same test as all the previous tests, the only item changed
was the hammer weight to 533 gr and Hammer spring weight of 9-10#'s.
Using a Flat wire spring, 2.500" long, .415" O/S Dia, .265" I/S Dia,.022" thick Flat wire, 25 coils, 14 gr Crosman ammo. 2 complete turns on pump rod head.
All air passageways opened up to .145" Dia (reamed), removed air filter at valve inlet.
(G Test)
Same test as the above test, only item changed was, all air passageways opened up to .145.0" Dia.
(H Test)
Same test as the above test, all air passageways opened up to .1562" Dia.
There was no extra air left after any pump test, for any shot.
Thanks All,
Your thoughts and suggestions.................
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WOW great exercising routine. very interesting results , think you just gave the final go ahead to buy one of these .
Were you using a target in these tests ? interested in what combination and speed worked as most accurate ?
Were you using a target in these tests ? interested in what combination and speed worked as most accurate ?
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Yeah, me too.I plan to buy one. I thought BB Pelliters's review was pretty convincing that it is a good value. I love pumpers. This one and a vintage 392 or 397.
Seneca Dragonfly Mark 2 multi-pump rifle: Part Sixteen | Blog | Pyramyd AIR
It has taken us 15 reports to get to this point, but today we are about to see what this rifle can really do.www.pyramydair.com
Upvote 0
Beer Thief
No, I haven't got to that section yet, was attempting to nail down the fps first, then I'll start my testing for accuracy, with the adjustability of the power of each pump, I am curious to see the results.
I hope my NOE Wadcutter mold works OK with this pumper.
I have to figure out this drop in fps between the air inlet holes,
and air passageway holes, something JDLR to me.
I do know the OEM valve air inlet hole has the squished small Brass BB look, and I couldn't blow any air thru it..........., so I popped it out to have better breathing room, for the pump rod pressure.
The OEM replacement valve does NOT have that type of air filter,
plus the inlet hole is .058" dia. Also the hammer spring is lighter at 13#'s, compared to the OEM original weight of 18/19#'s
No, I haven't got to that section yet, was attempting to nail down the fps first, then I'll start my testing for accuracy, with the adjustability of the power of each pump, I am curious to see the results.
I hope my NOE Wadcutter mold works OK with this pumper.
I have to figure out this drop in fps between the air inlet holes,
and air passageway holes, something JDLR to me.
I do know the OEM valve air inlet hole has the squished small Brass BB look, and I couldn't blow any air thru it..........., so I popped it out to have better breathing room, for the pump rod pressure.
The OEM replacement valve does NOT have that type of air filter,
plus the inlet hole is .058" dia. Also the hammer spring is lighter at 13#'s, compared to the OEM original weight of 18/19#'s
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When I finish with all this testing, I am putting a LW - 20 cal bbl on it,
it's going to be a Big Brother to my Dan's............
it's going to be a Big Brother to my Dan's............
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My service kit included the little gold air filter for the valve; I left it out. Are you talking about the valve hole where that filter goes? I didnt think to measure that...
BTW, the Dragonfly2 is my favorite gun to shoot. Free workout with those pumps too. I just got done hogging out the transfer port,valve, barrel, etc and will have some before & after with stock/stormrider hammer spring.
BTW, the Dragonfly2 is my favorite gun to shoot. Free workout with those pumps too. I just got done hogging out the transfer port,valve, barrel, etc and will have some before & after with stock/stormrider hammer spring.
HPP
Yes, there is a difference between stock OEM and Replacement valve holes,
as I found out, along with different weight hammer springs.
I posted on our home base about some of the difference I have found so far.
I also found that pressed BB filter in the corner of the plastic bag,
I won't be using it, very hard to blow air thru it, too restrictive.
What diameter is the air inlet hole of your valve?
My original valve hole was .102",
the new one is .058", I think they are setup for the .177 cal.
Yes, there is a difference between stock OEM and Replacement valve holes,
as I found out, along with different weight hammer springs.
I posted on our home base about some of the difference I have found so far.
I also found that pressed BB filter in the corner of the plastic bag,
I won't be using it, very hard to blow air thru it, too restrictive.
What diameter is the air inlet hole of your valve?
My original valve hole was .102",
the new one is .058", I think they are setup for the .177 cal.
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Pumpers are my mainstay too, followed closely by PCPs and co2. For me, it was a short progression from co2 to PCP. In fact several of my PCPs started out as co2 guns.
I have very little interest in springers. They just really don't do it for me.
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