EPOCH Skout at RMAC?

Franklink said:

While I see your logic, and even agree with you that a "stock" class would be pretty cool........a gun shot as "stock" at one of the big airgun events is likely a rare thing. Even in the much less publicized realm of field target, guys are constantly having new barrels machined and adding or subtracting "stuff" on their rigs to try to gain a competitive edge. Essentially, making them no longer "stock". And I'm not being judgemental here, as I'm as guilty as anybody. It's just the facts of the matter.

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I agree Franklink. I think a “stock” - defined as right off the production line, purchased at retail and shot without any modifications - would be a very rare rifle at a major shooting competition.

The shooters still have to read the wind while arching pellets 100 yards.

Technology marches forward. It will be interesting to learn whether is was the barrels, the overall weight, the combination of both or perhaps something else that helped the new rifle achieve such good results.

Also, my congratulations to the shooters that took a prototype and won - that takes guts.

-Ed

Purses, healthy entry fees brings in a whole different mind set of why there .. This goes for EVERYONE be them Shooters, Suppliers or Manufacturers.
Sooner one realizes what really drives these events and overall purpose served .. better you'll sleep at night

Centercut said:

.......but actually being significantly different than stock is uncommon. Not sure about FX Impact/Crown, but the majority of the Daystate RWs shot at EBR 2022 were pretty much stock, I know mine was (3rd in Pro). Barb P's @5Power .25 RW was also about as stock as you can get, although certainly tuned for best performance (EBR 2022 2nd Sportsman 100Y)

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"(Not) significantly different" and "pretty much stock"

Both suggest changes were made.

Add a heliboard? No longer stock. Change out the barrel? No longer stock. Rework the barrel? (Polishing the bore/leade/crown) no longer stock. Add a longer underbelly pic rail? No longer stock. Add a better buttrest contraption? No longer stock. Increase bottle size? No longer stock.

Anything aftermarket also makes it no longer stock. Saber tactical is the first name that comes to mind, by there's an entire cottage industry of "stuff" to add to FX guns.

I could go on but I think I've made the point with that simple list.

Motorhead said:

Purses, healthy entry fees brings in a whole different mind set of why there .. This goes for EVERYONE be them Shooters, Suppliers or Manufacturers.
Sooner one realizes what really drives these events and overall purpose served .. better you'll sleep at night

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100% agree. The big ones are more product showcases than anything else......"what wins on Sunday......"

I can agree with most of the logic discussed, but when you post scores 5-10-15 points higher than the competition “two shooters using the same prototypes none the less”, and very good shooters not able to shoot these prototypes, if you are a good shooter but don’t have access to these special rifles and all the sponsors $$$ and tutorials. what’s the point of spending my hard earned money and the time invested to compete.

These events were originally designed to be a friendly match for dealerships to promote and showcase the manufacture’s of the guns they SELL.

Franklink said:

"what wins on Sunday......"

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"... sells on monday"

nomojo65 said:

I can agree with most of the logic discussed, but when you post scores 5-10-15 points higher than the competition “two shooters using the same prototypes none the less”, and very good shooters not able to shoot these prototypes, if you are a good shooter but don’t have access to these special rifles and all the sponsors $$$ and tutorials. what’s the point of spending my hard earned money and the time invested to compete.

These events were originally designed to be a friendly match for dealerships to promote and showcase the manufacture’s of the guns they SELL.

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I guess I'm not seeing the issue. These are guns they built or had built being there behind the design. I think testing a gun at a competition and showing how well it can do is awesome. Timmy Mac built a one off .30 to win EBR one year. I think people should be able to build a full blown custom gun if they want. If it can beat what's commercially available well so be it.

These new guns were shot in the Pro class? I'm sure alot or most competitors are sponsored in that class so I see no problem there either. FX sponsored shooters won't be paid to shoot a gun they don't make, or Daystate or any others. Teams like Centercut can choose whatever they want to shoot so they can pick one up later on if it's that great. Anyways I think it creates healthy competition and pushes other brands to push the envelope now.

Well guys, I don't even shoot competition at my local range yet ... so I'm no expert at all, but if someone can make a better mousetrap within the existing rules:
Power to Them ...... this is how airgun innovation takes place. The Fat ($$$) Cats will just have to suck it up until the next event .

JMO, but change the rules or no sour grapes.

"These events were originally designed to be a friendly match for dealerships to promote and showcase the manufacture’s of the guns they SELL."

Welcome to America ,the land of Glut ... if it is worth doing it is worth doing to excess . What will happen to these comp's if "karen" passes a 12 FPE or under law ?

beerthief said:

"These events were originally designed to be a friendly match for dealerships to promote and showcase the manufacture’s of the guns they SELL."

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Yeah, that's what $$$ does .... hopefully the winning gun will be available to buy at many dealers; however I don't think a 17lb rig will sell like an FX, Daystate or whatever.... Any upper hand will soon be adopted by everyone and the advantage lost.

This maybe naive, but are Thomas AirGuns able to compete in this venue?

SpiralGroove said:

Yeah, that's what $$$ does .... hopefully the winning gun will be available to buy at many dealers; however I don't think a 17lb rig will sell like an FX, Daystate or whatever.... Any upper hand will soon be adopted by everyone and the advantage lost.

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beerthief said:
"These events were originally designed to be a friendly match for dealerships to promote and showcase the manufacture’s of the guns they SELL."
i didn't say this i quoted it from Motorhead i think ,

Yeah, well all I can say is Scott's one class act in this Sport - --->

I totally agree with One-off’s, prototypes home built etc. to spur innovation that’s one of the hard earned rewards of living in the U.S.. just have a class for it!, schedule the events so any competitor can shoot any or all of these classes.

You can’t really argue that it will consume too much time for this discipline when most Pro’s are coming in a wk. before these events start to practice and set there guns up for elevation and temperature changes etc.

I’ll get off my soapbox but I’m not changing my stance on this one.

nomojo65 said:

I’ll get off my soapbox but I’m not changing my stance on this one.

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You don't need to brother. We can have different opinions here.

I understand your point but think it should be the other way. Do a base class with a $$$$ limit. Something like NRL22. Has to be a commercial gun. Limit includes gun, scope, and accessories. Sportsman and Pro should be like unlimited where anything goes.

I don't know how you could enforce a limit to being "pure stock" guns - we all know that at a minimum some companies would test and sell the best performing of their stuff into that class.

Heck - I'm just a basement and backyard shooter, but I don't have a single gun that would qualify as bone stock. They all have at least some massaging or modification to them . . .

So you have to use commercially available pellets but you don’t have to use a commercially based available gun? Personally I have no concern about how stock a gun is. Just as long as the one you are shooting is based or has the serial number of a gun available to consumers. That gives everyone the same baseline. The coolness factor and sales for innovative products are still there when you look at what individuals did to their “stock” guns to get them performing at their peak. Guys competing with pellets or a gun that I can’t get is a big no go for me. That’s why I stepped back from the competitive side of a lot of hobbies I was involved in.

My opinion only- the guys that did well would’ve done so with any top tier gun, and with different levels of mods like weight addition, barrel work, etc, etc. The ST gun came stock designed for the bench. When I told Donny while going over his new gun, that my impact was close to 25 lbs, he said “but you’ve had to modify to get there, this Gun already has the weight built in, along with major plenum space and with the stiffer bull barrel”. No argument there.

He could’ve handed me that gun and said go use it for competition and that doesn’t guarantee that I’m gonna win. A lot of guys were testing this platform but were nowhere to be found in the top alongside or even close to Val and his son. The shooter has a lot to do with it.

I, and all here on AGN could do exactly what Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds, all did, but I can guarantee we’d never equal one ounce of what they accomplished. Skill, smarts, along with dedication and the will to win all play a major part.

The gun is just the tool, and you have to know how to use that tool. Just cause one owns a hammer, nails, and a skillsaw doesn’t mean he can build a custom home from ground up, right?