long range avenger shooting

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markhooper

markhooper

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Jan 7, 2022
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Rogue River, Oregon, United States
just wondering if anyone has a suggestion to stretch out the range of my American tactical liberty nova 22.. I can get 2 inch groups at 160 yards but if I go back to 170 yards I pretty much miss a 24 inch target and it's all over the place.. the liberty nova is a prerunner of the avenger but it only has the tank gauge and the port adjustment like the average x.. so I have tried several different pellets, all similar results.. haven't tried lead rounds yet and I was thinking about trying lead slugs but I don't want to buy a box of ammo that I can't shoot.. does anyone have any suggestions on the caliber for the slugs? any other ideas.. I can easily hit the target with 22 rimfire at 1/4 mile but I really want to stretch out the airgun.. or am I just at it's limit?
Mark
 
Woah. That is seriously long range! I have some questions for you cause I am shooting JSB 18.13 gr from the tin out of my modded Avenger and can hit a individual serving skillet at 92 ish yards each time. That's bout how far my range is. 20230526_195607.jpgRight of leaf is 18 shots minus the 3 that are on around the "i". (Held wrong dot) I'd like to try again with an actual table cause that was me holding the back of the gun but with the front loose resting on a tripod. That was about 876 FPS muzzle.

My scope at 16x has me holding a little over the 6th dot down when shooting these pellets after zeroing at 30 yards. So I'd guess your zero is way out there!!

I tried some NSA slugs to see the FPS, I didn't shoot paper but these are my results:
17.5 gr .216

2k reg for all
HS 3.0
FPS 832

HS 3.5
FPS 841, 854, 838,

HS 4
856

HS 4.5
869

HS 5
887, 885.3, 894, 887

HS 5.5
910, 905

That was just me randomly trying settings. So for my gun, I'd have to up the reg to shoot them faster.

What are your current settings? Do you have a particular pellet you use? At what FPS? Did you mod your gun at all? That's just so far to shoot that I'd think the pellet would be blown off track by wind by a large distance way closer than 160! I'd definitely suggest some NSA slugs.
 
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I’m having a hard time getting my mind around how 2” at 160 yards becomes >24” at 170 yards. Is there a typo in there somewhere? As far as I know, the worst scenarios would be either tumbling or spiraling but I don’t see how either of them can cause such rapid degradation.

With pellets, an imperceptible shifting wind of 2mph can easily explain the 24”.
Whereas 2” groups would be remarkable if you’re getting them with any degree of repeatability. Unless we’re talking 2-shot groups :)
 
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EmptyTin_Tim said:
Woah. That is seriously long range! I have some questions for you cause I am shooting JSB 18.13 gr from the tin out of my modded Avenger and can hit a individual serving skillet at 92 ish yards each time. That's bout how far my range is. View attachment 366149Right of leaf is 18 shots minus the 3 that are on around the "i". (Held wrong dot) I'd like to try again with an actual table cause that was me holding the back of the gun but with the front loose resting on a tripod. That was about 876 FPS muzzle.

My scope at 16x has me holding a little over the 6th dot down when shooting these pellets after zeroing at 30 yards. So I'd guess your zero is way out there!!

I tried some NSA slugs to see the FPS, I didn't shoot paper but these are my results:
17.5 gr .216

2k reg for all
HS 3.0
FPS 832

HS 3.5
FPS 841, 854, 838,

HS 4
856

HS 4.5
869

HS 5
887, 885.3, 894, 887

HS 5.5
910, 905

That was just me randomly trying settings. So for my gun, I'd have to up the reg to shoot them faster.

What are your current settings? Do you have a particular pellet you use? At what FPS? Did you mod your gun at all? That's just so far to shoot that I'd think the pellet would be blown off track by wind by a large distance way closer than 160! I'd definitely suggest some NSA slugs.
Click to expand...
ok my gun is factory, no tuning or adjustments.. I only shoot with open sights, so I just adjust up the appropriate clicks.. shooting crossman premier round noze, jsb 18 and I have not tried jsb redesigned heavy..
Mark
 
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nervoustrig said:
I’m having a hard time getting my mind around how 2” at 160 yards becomes >24” at 170 yards. Is there a typo in there somewhere? As far as I know, the worst scenarios would be either tumbling or spiraling but I don’t see how either of them can cause such rapid degradation.

With pellets, an imperceptible shifting wind of 2mph can easily explain the 24”.
Whereas 2” groups would be remarkable if you’re getting them with any degree of repeatability. Unless we’re talking 2-shot groups :)
Click to expand...
no magazine after magazine at 160 yards and open sights.. unfortunately I can't shoot with a scope unless someone has a idea of a scope that adjusted to match reading glasses.. I can't walk around with reading glasses so that's not a good option.. and I was just resting on a fence post or tree..
yet go 170 yards and it's all over.. I figured dropping out but with a larger background they were all flyers.. every one.. some way low, some high and both sides.. I read a article from pyramid air comparing BB vs pellets and it was saying that airodynamic was not good on pellet.. wondering about trying lead rounds but I would be more interested in slugs if I only knew what size to order that fit the barrel.. guess I have to slug the barrel with a pellet and then mic it..
Mark
 
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EmptyTin_Tim said:
Woah. That is seriously long range! I have some questions for you cause I am shooting JSB 18.13 gr from the tin out of my modded Avenger and can hit a individual serving skillet at 92 ish yards each time. That's bout how far my range is. View attachment 366149Right of leaf is 18 shots minus the 3 that are on around the "i". (Held wrong dot) I'd like to try again with an actual table cause that was me holding the back of the gun but with the front loose resting on a tripod. That was about 876 FPS muzzle.

My scope at 16x has me holding a little over the 6th dot down when shooting these pellets after zeroing at 30 yards. So I'd guess your zero is way out there!!

I tried some NSA slugs to see the FPS, I didn't shoot paper but these are my results:
17.5 gr .216

2k reg for all
HS 3.0
FPS 832

HS 3.5
FPS 841, 854, 838,

HS 4
856

HS 4.5
869

HS 5
887, 885.3, 894, 887

HS 5.5
910, 905

That was just me randomly trying settings. So for my gun, I'd have to up the reg to shoot them faster.

What are your current settings? Do you have a particular pellet you use? At what FPS? Did you mod your gun at all? That's just so far to shoot that I'd think the pellet would be blown off track by wind by a large distance way closer than 160! I'd definitely suggest some NSA slugs.
Click to expand...
oh as far as zero.. I am using open sights and I just zero in the appropriate clicks.. if I leave it at 50 yards zero, you are correct.. I forgot the number but it was between 2_3' low.. I don't have any Chrono but I'd guess it factory around 900 fps+/-
 
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nervoustrig said:
I’m having a hard time getting my mind around how 2” at 160 yards becomes >24” at 170 yards. Is there a typo in there somewhere? As far as I know, the worst scenarios would be either tumbling or spiraling but I don’t see how either of them can cause such rapid degradation.

With pellets, an imperceptible shifting wind of 2mph can easily explain the 24”.
Whereas 2” groups would be remarkable if you’re getting them with any degree of repeatability. Unless we’re talking 2-shot groups :)
Click to expand...
my guess is that they were just running out of go.. but I don't know.. I am used to shooting in the wind as well and I can reliability compensate so I don't think that's a issue.. and yes I basically could do 80 shots and then need to refill air.. no two shot groups for me.. at the very least 2 magazine..
I figured that someone here would have a idea since I have shot 1/4 mile across a canyon with 22 rimfire and reliability hit a one gallon can.. and if you don't compensate it will be around 30 ft low.. and then depending on the wind .. so I just want to stretch out the PCP airgun like I do 22 rimfire.. getting ready to set up my range at the new place.. I'll end up with only 300 ft but going to break down and mark 50 yards and others for pistol shooting.. I'll have to try to find a long range somewhere for the 1/4 mile now 😀
any information or help would be great..
Mark
 
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iAMzehTOASTY1 said:
Heavier p3llet or switch to slugs....
Thanks for the idea; I have some lead.round ball. Will have to give them a distance test.(only tried them to about 20 yards but they are great in certain slingers, just dirty on the fingers)
Click to expand...
I only thought about trying the lead rounds, because I used to shoot black powder a lot.. but they were put in a cloth patch and pushed down.. not bare.. and I know that is not how it works in air rifle.. and I don't know how they will feed in the avenger type magazine.. I'm not into single loading, got tired of that with black powder 🤣..
up early in this thread someone mentioned nsa slugs, I think, 216 caliber.. is NSA a brand and where do I find them.. it's great to see you toasty.. do you think 21.6 will work in my pre-avenger?
thank you
Mark
 
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NSA is Nielsen Specialty Ammo. Link to Website

The size I tried in my Avenger is .216 , .2165 , and .217

The .217 are very tight. I pushed all 3 sizes down the barrel to slug it and I had to kinda tap that. 217 down it. Idk about your barrel but the slugs come in boxes of 300 for like $20 shipped.

There is a coupon right now for 12% off "Skylar" good til end of June.
 
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EmptyTin_Tim said:
Here is my set up and the dot holdover is for my scope at 6x zoom. 16x zoom says 17.61 dots down... I only have 9 lol. I really like to see what I'm shooting at so if I were doing 160 yards man I'd have a 7 foot diameter blaze orange or neon yellow target! Lol

View attachment 366849
Click to expand...
you all are so professional and charts and all.. my target was a 24" piece of plywood with a spray paint 2" dot and I propped it up on top of a 55 gallon barrel.. backed up with 1 gallon water jugs but had to change it out because I shot a hole and lost water 🤣
then paced out my 1/4 long driveway until I was at the right fencepost for a rest.. same thing you would have to do hunting.. fencepost or tree..
and since I can't see through a scope without reading glasses and I can't walk around with them.. it's open sights.. it's also how I knew it was all over the place at 170 yards.. dent in drum, dust on hill above and beside the target.. but at 160 yards every shot was in the 2" red dot on the plywood..
I like reactive target though.. metal can with a rock inside so I can hear it hit metal or a spinner.. I was just trying with the target to figure out what distance with the ammo that I could reliably hit the target.. I assumed that at some point it would just drop off too much, not scatter..
Mark
EmptyTin_Tim said:
Here is my set up and the dot holdover is for my scope at 6x zoom. 16x zoom says 17.61 dots down... I only have 9 lol. I really like to see what I'm shooting at so if I were doing 160 yards man I'd have a 7 foot diameter blaze orange or neon yellow target! Lol

View attachment 366849
Click to expand...
 
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Okay a 2 ft piece of plywood would be a good target I thought you meant you only had a 2 inch spinner way out at 160 and you could see it and hit it with irons, having the plywood and barrels etc would definitely help with target acquisition!

Sorry I posted that before I typed out the rest. It is edited now.

For a .22 caliber gun you use smaller sizes than .22 cause it goes in the rifling. If it were .22 it would definitely get stuck. My Avenger shoots 17.5 grain slugs roughly 50 FPS slower than 18.13 gr pellets at the same settings because there is a lot more surface area of a slug touching the rifling so more friction.

The reason you need correct sizing of the slug is so the rifling grips it and it seals in the barrel the best.

Not all guns shoot slugs well (accurately) though. I keep going back to 18.13 JSB because of the lower cost and they're super accurate. If you swapped to slugs you'd need to be firing them around 900 FPS for the spin from the rifling to stabilize it.

At one point NSA had a sampler pack but I'm not sure anymore. I just bought 3 boxes in the .216 , .2165 , and the .217 sizes to test out.

I'd recommend you try the 17.5 grain slugs first even though you'd really want the 20.2s for that distance I just think the 20.2s would be going too slow without modification of your gun.
 
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EmptyTin_Tim said:
Okay a 2 ft piece of plywood would be a good target I thought you meant you only had a 2 inch spinner way out at 160 and you could see it and hit it with irons, having the plywood and barrels etc would definitely help with target acquisition!

Sorry I posted that before I typed out the rest. It is edited now.

For a .22 caliber gun you use smaller sizes than .22 cause it goes in the rifling. If it were .22 it would definitely get stuck. My Avenger shoots 17.5 grain slugs roughly 50 FPS slower than 18.13 gr pellets at the same settings because there is a lot more surface area of a slug touching the rifling so more friction.

The reason you need correct sizing of the slug is so the rifling grips it and it seals in the barrel the best.

Not all guns shoot slugs well (accurately) though. I keep going back to 18.13 JSB because of the lower cost and they're super accurate. If you swapped to slugs you'd need to be firing them around 900 FPS for the spin from the rifling to stabilize it.

At one point NSA had a sampler pack but I'm not sure anymore. I just bought 3 boxes in the .216 , .2165 , and the .217 sizes to test out.

I'd recommend you try the 17.5 grain slugs first even though you'd really want the 20.2s for that distance I just think the 20.2s would be going too slow without modification of your gun.
Click to expand...
so I also have the jsb redesigned heavy, but I have only shot them in my notos and blitz.. they definitely smack the 50 yard spinner hard, but I have not tried them in the preavenger yet.. but they also turn the blitz into a bolt action, so I don't use them in it.. it's rated speed is 1050 , notos is 780 and I am just guessing that the preavenger is around 900.. all with standard pellets. seems like it would be messy but on slugs I wonder if any lubrication would help..
i don't know much about ballistics but I read that the hollow rear of pellets slow them down more quickly..
to clarify, when I used to shoot 22 rimfire 1/4 mile it was into a dirt bank and the target was a 1gallon paint can with rocks inside to keep it in place.. you would fire and wait for the tink or if you miss you would see the puff of dirt
Mark
 
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markhooper said:
so I also have the jsb redesigned heavy, but I have only shot them in my notos and blitz.. they definitely smack the 50 yard spinner hard, but I have not tried them in the preavenger yet.. but they also turn the blitz into a bolt action, so I don't use them in it.. it's rated speed is 1050 , notos is 780 and I am just guessing that the preavenger is around 900.. all with standard pellets. seems like it would be messy but on slugs I wonder if any lubrication would help..
i don't know much about ballistics but I read that the hollow rear of pellets slow them down more quickly..
to clarify, when I used to shoot 22 rimfire 1/4 mile it was into a dirt bank and the target was a 1gallon paint can with rocks inside to keep it in place.. you would fire and wait for the tink or if you miss you would see the puff of dirt
Mark
Click to expand...
I've found the "flatter" back slug vs dish base sling a touch better for me
 
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I'd you don't know your speed but would like to know for $30, I highly recommend you get this chronograph

Yes some people lubricate the slugs for better speed and maybe accuracy.

Normally heavier is better for long range so the wind doesn't affect the ammo as much. Those redesign probably sail well but I know they aren't cheap haha probably similar cost to slugs.
 
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I like the
"you all are so professional and charts and all.. my target was a 24" piece of plywood with a spray paint 2" dot and I propped it up on top of a 55 gallon barrel.. backed up with 1 gallon water jugs"

Man youd be lucky to even get 1/4 of that here..lol.
100y rack and crosman lids blackened taped on for a bulls. Thats top end stuff.
100y rack.jpghatsan95,cphp,100y,opensight.jpg
 
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