Other Purchasing an SCBA bottle

Thats where I bought all of mine.

Guppy with armor etc from TopAirguns in California. At 20 cu foot it is slightly larger than the more common 18 cu ft Omega or Air Venturi baby tanks and the valve and gauge system is far superior in functionality and feel. I have one of these and one of their top of the line Great White and both have a more positive feel opening and closing the main valve than the more common rivals.

After market service is great as well. I had a slight leak in the secondary gauge of my Great White, called, and they sent a replacement out the same day, no questions asked.

david

what vendor?

before spending more $ than needed,
check your local fire stations,
often they will have tanks they will sell much cheaper than youll pay on ebay.

last 60min scba i got from a fire station,
cost me a whopping $20 "donation"

if you get an scba,
make sure you get a cga347 fill system,
also on ebay for less than 60 bucks

disregard my post lol

i just realized youre looking for a small guppy type tank.

I would be very careful getting a ‘used, cheapie from a secondary source. I assume we are talking about a small cf tank if you are looking for something to haul around with you outdoor. carbon fiber tanks can be damaged if banged around and have a set shelf life. The $20 dollar tank may be fine or it may go boom very spectacularly and dangerously when it is filled to working pressure.

The old saying that you get what you pay for is quite apt considering the balance of the $20 tank versus your life or your vision if the cheapie blows up in your face. Commercial vendors who sell and support proper dated, certified tanks and back them up with proper support is the best way to go.

and before you listen to the well meaning anonymous pundits on the Net you should further understand just what you are dealing with — a canister packed with up to 4500 psi in a small space makes a dandy grenade if it fails.

caveat emptor

david

dnovo said:

I would be very careful getting a ‘used, cheapie from a secondary source. I assume we are talking about a small cf tank if you are looking for something to haul around with you outdoor. carbon fiber tanks can be damaged if banged around and have a set shelf life. The $20 dollar tank may be fine or it may go boom very spectacularly and dangerously when it is filled to working pressure.

The old saying that you get what you pay for is quite apt considering the balance of the $20 tank versus your life or your vision if the cheapie blows up in your face. Commercial vendors who sell and support proper dated, certified tanks and back them up with proper support is the best way to go.

and before you listen to the well meaning anonymous pundits on the Net you should further understand just what you are dealing with — a canister packed with up to 4500 psi in a small space makes a dandy grenade if it fails.

caveat emptor

david

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SCBA Tanks are tested incredibly rigorously. They are rapidly filled and degassed 10000 times (corresponding to about one cycle per working day for 40 years) before hitting the shelf, far more rapid, far more frequent than airgunners will do. The same scba tank in Europe has a 30 year life vs our 15 year life.

DO your DUE deligience and inspect the outside and as filling for the first time have it in the sink or bucket of water and check for bubbles. I periodically check my tanks this way. Most retired fire fighter tanks have been dropped off trucks, to the floors from the backs of tired firemen and women, etc.... many , many times before they even retire them.

Nothing wrong with a used tank thats been inspected for obvious signs of damage.

I respectfully disagree with the above. CF tanks have a shelf life and will last a large but still limited number of fills before failure and that failure will be spectacular. The testing posited above is correct and effective to determine present condition but will NOT tell you how much ‘life’ remains in the tank. I’d play it safe and avoid buying cheap.

David

dnovo said:

I respectfully disagree with the above. CF tanks have a shelf life and will last a large but still limited number of fills before failure and that failure will be spectacular. The testing posited above is correct and effective to determine present condition but will NOT tell you how much ‘life’ remains in the tank. I’d play it safe and avoid buying cheap.

David

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Based on that we shouldn't even purchase new tanks.

The manufacturers don't even know the life of the tank, hence why some countries have a 30, some have 10, some have 5, some have 15. Its ok to disagree , just giving my take on it.

_CTAIRGUNNER_ said:

I do not take issue with what you said, but only with the issue of safety. Yes, a new tank can fail and yes, no testing method is infallible. (The submersible ‘cheapie’ that failed on the way to the Titanic was tested as was the USS Thresher that also collapsed at depth.). But what is the likelihood that a new and certified tank will fail versus the $20 special. I think the answer is whether your life is worth $400 or $20. Only the buyer can answer that. David

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_CTAIRGUNNER_ said:

on that we shouldn't even purchase new tanks.

The manufacturers don't even know the life of the tank, hence why some countries have a 30, some have 10, some have 5, some have 15. Its ok to disagree , just giving my take on it.

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dnovo said:

I respectfully disagree with the above. CF tanks have a shelf life and will last a large but still limited number of fills before failure and that failure will be spectacular. The testing posited above is correct and effective to determine present condition but will NOT tell you how much ‘life’ remains in the tank. I’d play it safe and avoid buying cheap.

David

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Where are you getting this "fail spectacularly" info from? That's akin to saying every car accident is going to be fatal (IMHO). If you're gonna refer to the video that shows an exploded SCBA, that occurred during 9,000 - 12,000psi TEST pressure NOT NORMAL USAGE! This has been discussed here numerous times. The likelihood of it happening during NORMAL usage is infinitesimally small. Like worrying all the time you'll be struck by lightning!

Gerry52 said:

Where are you getting this "fail spectacularly" info from? That's akin to saying every car accident is going to be fatal (IMHO). If you're gonna refer to the video that shows an exploded SCBA, that occurred during 9,000 - 12,000psi TEST pressure NOT NORMAL USAGE! This has been discussed here numerous times. The likelihood of it happening during NORMAL usage is infinitesimally small. Like worrying all the time you'll be struck by lightning!

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Theyre also designed to split. Not shrapnel. Still incredibly dangerous but its not a grenade.

I was speaking metaphorically when I used the word grenade but we are both entitled to our opinions and neither one of us is necessarily wrong. However, and to be blunt, you are being asked to give advice on a topic that has an element of danger, infinitesimal or not. I am perhaps more cautious than you when offering such advice.

Still, I think the concept of relying on the safety or the functionality of an anonymous $20 tank is problematic at best. It is still a crap shoot and whomever is going to rely on the advice in this thread based on dueling self proclaimed pundits show decide accordingl..

And that is my last comment on this thread since the last thing I want is to get into a flame war.

David

dnovo said:

I would be very careful getting a ‘used, cheapie from a secondary source. I assume we are talking about a small cf tank if you are looking for something to haul around with you outdoor. carbon fiber tanks can be damaged if banged around and have a set shelf life. The $20 dollar tank may be fine or it may go boom very spectacularly and dangerously when it is filled to working pressure.

The old saying that you get what you pay for is quite apt considering the balance of the $20 tank versus your life or your vision if the cheapie blows up in your face. Commercial vendors who sell and support proper dated, certified tanks and back them up with proper support is the best way to go.

and before you listen to the well meaning anonymous pundits on the Net you should further understand just what you are dealing with — a canister packed with up to 4500 psi in a small space makes a dandy grenade if it fails.

caveat emptor

david

Click to expand...

I can't believe there are members here who still believe that. The liner alone is designed to hold 6000 psi and with the CF 12000 psi min. As long as there's no corrosion in side and the exterior isn't beat to heck it will hold the 4500 psi just fine. They don't explode when they fail they just leak out. I use to test CF tensiles that were.5 inches wide and around .040 thick. I'd see between 7k to 8k pounds of load before they would fail. Not psi but actual load. The tanks that have "blown up" have been filled to 15,000 psi.

DesertSilver said:

I can't believe there are members here who still believe that. The liner alone is designed to hold 6000 psi and with the CF 12000 psi min. As long as there's no corrosion in side and the exterior isn't beat to heck it will hold the 4500 psi just fine. They don't explode when they fail they just leak out. I use to test CF tensiles that were.5 inches wide and around .040 thick. I'd see between 7k to 8k pounds of load before they would fail. Not psi but actual load. The tanks that have "blown up" have been filled to 15,000 psi.

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That boogeyman just won't die.

Still waiting for real world reports of this actually happening (that don't involve pre-damaging the tank and/or massive over pressure).

dnovo said:

I was speaking metaphorically when I used the word grenade but we are both entitled to our opinions and neither one of us is necessarily wrong. However, and to be blunt, you are being asked to give advice on a topic that has an element of danger, infinitesimal or not. I am perhaps more cautious than you when offering such advice.

Still, I think the concept of relying on the safety or the functionality of an anonymous $20 tank is problematic at best. It is still a crap shoot and whomever is going to rely on the advice in this thread based on dueling self proclaimed pundits show decide accordingl..

And that is my last comment on this thread since the last thing I want is to get into a flame war.

David

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so when you go outside,
do you don swat gear?

cause.....

you know...........

humans "fail spectacularly" all the time lol

Heck, there's a video on Utub about a guy shooting a expired scba tank filled to 4500 psi with a.45 or .50 cal Texan. Hit it more than once and nothing. He then shot it with a.308 pb rifle and all it did was coming spinning right back at him lol. No boom just a whole lotta air escaping. All metal tanks make me way more nervous than scba tanks. Metal fatigues through work Hardening and become brittle. Metal tanks will go boom.

Well, it seems the flame war I was hoping to avoid has already started because several of you seem to think that anyone who doesn’t agree with you or cautions prudence is a fool. This thread started out with a question about buying a tank from ebay. It morphed into a flame after I responded to a suggestion that the answer to the original question was to buy a 20 dollar discarded tank at a local fire station rather than ‘wasting’ more money buying a new tank. I offered my thought that doing so was not a good alternative.

Unfortunately, my suggestion, and it was only a suggestion, was that the $20 purchase was not a prudent alternative has now turned into an opportunity to attack anyone foolish enough not to agree with a group of self-proclaimed experts who have their own ideas about not “wasting“ money buying what is more likely than not a safer/more reliable alternative to the $20 unknown with an unknown history. Disagree with them and get flamed.

Sure, that used tank may be fine but if you buy it, it will not come with a history showing possible misuse or damage or even if it has been used so much that it has little if any service life. It may be fine or it may not. it may last a long time or it may simply be worn out. Frankly, when you buy the a $20 tank at the fire station, you have no way of knowing how many times it has been used or what condition it’s in unless you want to do as the ‘experts’ say and stick it in your sink and do home testing. if that makes you feel okay then do so and don’t waste your money buying a new tank like the more cautious folk who do not agree with the pundits who have responded in this thread.

I am new to this group so I presumed that like other moderated Net groups this type of flaming was discouraged . It seems I was wrong.Let me conclude however with a reply to one of the responses attacking me without any pretense of anything other than a personal insult.

in answer to one of the flamers above, no, I don’t wear “swat gear“ when I shoot anything, air guns or large bore ‘ real ‘ firearms. I am 76 and have been shooting since I was 10. I volunteer at our local range as an NRA - certified instructor and teach firearm safety to newbies buying their first guns. When someone shows up to shoot at a range wearing “swat“ or full blown tactical gear, we tell those wannabes to go someplace else to shoot, and do so for good reason. It is people like that who are dangerous not shooters who follow safety rules. you can’t overdo shooting safety. High power air guns are not toys so guys, judge the opinions offered above accordingly.

So go buy that $20 tank and if you are nervous test it in your sink. Don’t listen to the safety nuts like me, I am no longer interested in trying to contribute if in doing so since I have offended the opinions of the real experts who populate this forum.

David