First off I already have a compressor.... Scba tanks...Aqua Environment External regulator... I have property here in Pennsylvania I'd like to small game hunt....Our regulations are .177 and .22 cal airgun s only.... Sucks a lil....I'm limited on funds but hate to miss another small game season. I can buy a refurbished Umarex Origin 22 cal for $206.00 on EBay... I'm Also considering Airforce outlet page ...seconds on a Airforce Condor 22 cal....probably 24 inch version... $500.00 and some change... I assume barrels on both will be rough...I'm experienced in hand lapping bore with lead laps...I'm familiar with Airforce platform.... Have tethering set-up..... Origin has a stock.... Probably not hold.sensitive..... I know my Umarex Airsaber much less hold sensitive and easier to shoot than my Texan....Weight is a concern... I'm semi handicap.. Any thoughts of you who.are 22 cal small game hunters chime in...I'm also.setup up.for.casting ... So id like to cast for either choice in the future... I'm willing to modify and upgrade for performance if cost effective..... Thanks friends
Airforce Pa Small Game 22 pcp ....Umarex Origin or Aiforce condor?
- Thread starter RM.510bigbore
- Start date
I've had no less than a dozen AF guns over the years. The Condor shines best in .25 and up. I had an original in .22 and it never did impress me with accuracy until I went .257 on it. Another Condor I had in .22 ended up being a .30 and did fine.
For small game on the AF platform, my absolute favorite is a Talon in .22 with the 18 inch barrel. Seems to be the perfect combination for size, power and shot count. The SS model with the 12 inch barrel is just fine, but I still prefer the 18 inch version.
Cant speak to the Origin, sorry.
For small game on the AF platform, my absolute favorite is a Talon in .22 with the 18 inch barrel. Seems to be the perfect combination for size, power and shot count. The SS model with the 12 inch barrel is just fine, but I still prefer the 18 inch version.
Cant speak to the Origin, sorry.
Last edited:
RM - you are correct .22 is the largest for squirrel in PA. Unfortunately you cannot shoot .25 or .257 legally.
I don’t own either of the guns you have to choose between so I will defer to the more knowledgeable here. There are many that can help you. Did you look at the Umarex Notos? For the money it’s on my list to purchase specifically for squirrel hunting.
Some helpful hints from a fellow PA squirrel hunter (my opinions, others may think differently).
Pellets are great in early season, shots are closer due to leaves still on the trees. Lower FPS (sub 20 foot pounds) seems to be better for more humane kills. My FT rig is the perfect solution.
Late season, shots are or can be much farther since there are no leaves. I choose to use my EBR rifle with slugs. Squirrel hides are thicker and wind pushed slugs less. Both guns are in .22 cal.
Whatever you choose I think you will make it work to your advantage. My suggestion is get whatever you can afford and dump as much money into pellets, slugs and time to shoot.
Hunting small game with an airgun is way more fun than shooting a nice buck to hang on the wall.
Good luck my friend!
I don’t own either of the guns you have to choose between so I will defer to the more knowledgeable here. There are many that can help you. Did you look at the Umarex Notos? For the money it’s on my list to purchase specifically for squirrel hunting.
Some helpful hints from a fellow PA squirrel hunter (my opinions, others may think differently).
Pellets are great in early season, shots are closer due to leaves still on the trees. Lower FPS (sub 20 foot pounds) seems to be better for more humane kills. My FT rig is the perfect solution.
Late season, shots are or can be much farther since there are no leaves. I choose to use my EBR rifle with slugs. Squirrel hides are thicker and wind pushed slugs less. Both guns are in .22 cal.
Whatever you choose I think you will make it work to your advantage. My suggestion is get whatever you can afford and dump as much money into pellets, slugs and time to shoot.
Hunting small game with an airgun is way more fun than shooting a nice buck to hang on the wall.
Good luck my friend!
Last edited:
I would say in the upper end of your budget, check out the Air Venturi Avenger. The base model is less than $400 and they are a real bargain. They are tack drivers up to 100yds. They can also be modded as you get more funds if you wish. They also have a decent trigger that is adjustable. I have one and also a Notos and would take an Avenger over the Notos for hunting. Also it has a magazine which is handy in hunting if you need a quick follow up shot.
Upvote 0
i still dont understand the pgc's mindset with that rule.
i mean,cmon,
is there such a thing as killing an animal too well? lol
"sir,that .25 cal airgun is too effective,
im going to cite you for making that squirrel too dead" lol
but,also at the same time,
in defense of the pgc,
most people dont even know that airguns bigger than .22cal exist.
i mean,cmon,
is there such a thing as killing an animal too well? lol
"sir,that .25 cal airgun is too effective,
im going to cite you for making that squirrel too dead" lol
but,also at the same time,
in defense of the pgc,
most people dont even know that airguns bigger than .22cal exist.
My Understanding is the Umarex Origin is the exact same pcp as the Air Venture Avenger........The only difference being avenger has a regulator....They share the same barrel action ect.....The umarex origin stock looks better and is one piece compared to avengers stock. I have a external regulator setup already that I use for my Texan... So hooking it up to my regulators for target shootings is easy....When hunting im sure I'm not going to shoot more than 3-5 times and ill refill from big scba tank...The refurbished Umarex Origin is cheaper than used Avengers...$206.00 with shipping.
Upvote 0
It's to hear your years experience with the Airforce platform... I tore down my Texan completely and fixed it when Airforce couldn't... Seems like condor s don't have all the problems Texans do...less power less problems... There lother Wather barrels are rough side...guess the 22 condor barrel is chocked for pellets.......sucks......figured the barrel would be rough on a new 24 inch condor.... So if I got one I'd take the barrel off and hand lap it with lead laps until smooth and uniform
...Remove some choke.....Slug the barrel.... Measure... Buy some NSA slugs....Well if I get blessed with more money ill buy a Condor with 24 inch barrel....be prepared to fuse with it till semi accurate..... Less money... Need x bow also...Umarex origin $206.00 poor mans AvengerUpvote 0
Check out the JTS Airacuda, I own a .22 and a .25.
The .25 has been great and accurate out of the box, the .22 had some issues with accuracy, but JTS sent me a new barrel and now it shoots great.
Gave $320 each for them.
The .25 has been great and accurate out of the box, the .22 had some issues with accuracy, but JTS sent me a new barrel and now it shoots great.
Gave $320 each for them.
My property is pretty big 107 acres.... There are definitely coyotes...Fields..woods..ect...I definitely like more power with slugs. But high power 22 cal pcp expensive... Airforce cheapest for power.....they have there quirks...The deer hunting is good... So I can get a buck and a squirrel to hang on the wall...just have to use x-bow and 22 cal pcp...
Seems new 24Inch barrel condor will sling 40 grain slugs at 1000 fps....Airforce rough...but powerful..Upvote 0
I hope you arent planning to shoot a deer with a 22 pcp 
For a reliable long term high performing budget pcp I always recommend the Gamo Urban. They are short, light, balanced well, super accurate, and mine is pretty old and has thousands of pellets through it. I replaced a couple orings but its a good design that will last you a long time. That said I have an Avenger that is also a good rig, but I dont know if it will last the same amount of time with the same part availability as the Urban. Time will tell. The Avenger will allow you more power and therefor hunting distance. I have taken critters at longer ranges, but the Urban is really only good to about 50yds. But that is the limitation of most pellets for hunting. My Avenger zips Nielsen 17.5g slugs over 1000fps and I would use it out to 100yds.
For a reliable long term high performing budget pcp I always recommend the Gamo Urban. They are short, light, balanced well, super accurate, and mine is pretty old and has thousands of pellets through it. I replaced a couple orings but its a good design that will last you a long time. That said I have an Avenger that is also a good rig, but I dont know if it will last the same amount of time with the same part availability as the Urban. Time will tell. The Avenger will allow you more power and therefor hunting distance. I have taken critters at longer ranges, but the Urban is really only good to about 50yds. But that is the limitation of most pellets for hunting. My Avenger zips Nielsen 17.5g slugs over 1000fps and I would use it out to 100yds.
My favorite PCPs are my three P35s. The company used to go by Artemis but now is called Snowpeak and sometimes abbreviated SPA. I bought my P35s from Krale. The Stoeger bullshark is made by SPA and very similar. The Stoeger has a different plastic stock and a 490mm barrel instead of the P35s 450mm. I've taken 18 squirrels with my P35-25 (I got it first), 9 with my P35-177 and 5 with my P35-22. I shot another 15 squirrels with my Prod which is 22 caliber so I know 22 works. I've been concentrating on killing some with the 177 but will probably switch back to the P35-22 soon. It came tuned to 32 fpe and really likes H&N Baracuda Match pellets - 21 grains. It also shot JSB 18s well. It has shot through every squirrel I've shot with it. The P35-25 is also tuned, by me, to 32 fpe because it likes H&N FTTs which only weigh 20 grains. Only three of 18 squirrels stopped a FTT. Two were shot in the front of the chest and the pellet was under the hide on the other end of the squirrel. One was a double shoulder shot.
I think 30+ fpe in either 22 or 25 will take squirrels reliably with any reasonable hit. My 19fpe 177 works too but I have more confidence in the 22 and 25. The squirrels fall more quickly. I also killed a 8 lb raccoon with the P35-22. I hit it between the eyes.
P35s are short and light. Well under 30 inches long and about 5 lbs. They need the trigger adjusted and I think the crown needs polished too. The baffles in the shroud like to shift so I put 3D printed moderators in them to stop that. They are quite accurate with plenty of power. They and the bullshark are about $450. I have an Avenger too but it is so long I don't like shooting it as much. It is accurate too. But it has a lot more plastic in it than the P35.
I think 30+ fpe in either 22 or 25 will take squirrels reliably with any reasonable hit. My 19fpe 177 works too but I have more confidence in the 22 and 25. The squirrels fall more quickly. I also killed a 8 lb raccoon with the P35-22. I hit it between the eyes.
P35s are short and light. Well under 30 inches long and about 5 lbs. They need the trigger adjusted and I think the crown needs polished too. The baffles in the shroud like to shift so I put 3D printed moderators in them to stop that. They are quite accurate with plenty of power. They and the bullshark are about $450. I have an Avenger too but it is so long I don't like shooting it as much. It is accurate too. But it has a lot more plastic in it than the P35.
Upvote 0
Am I the only one who thinks this is strange? "I'm also.setup up.for.casting ... So id like to cast for either choice in the future..."
Upvote 0
I dont think so. In particular with the AF guns, it's easy to go from higher power to lower power. When foliage is still around, drop to lower power and use pellets. When foliage is gone later in the season, crank it up a bit for longer shots with slugs.
Not sure how that would work with the other gun the fellow is considering, but assume he's done his homework on it and the gun can handle slugs. Also, some folks just enjoy taking game with a slug they cast.
Upvote 0
For whatever reason I didn't think about "casting" when I read it. I have cast for .177 slugs in the past but it didn't work out, barrel wasn't fast enough or I just couldn't push them fast enough.
Upvote 0
Admittedly, I wouldnt have considered it either for a compact small game getter... I'd keep it around 20fpe in .22 and set up for 50 yards and under.. but to each his own! This hobby makes us do odd things.
Upvote 0
If you can wait til November or so PA has been doing some deep discounts on the Avengers and Urbans etc. With the new AvengX coming in my guess is they will be having some awesome sales on the "older" Avenger designs.
Upvote 0
I have an Origin. I also have an Airforce Talon P that is surpisingly accurate and has lots of power.
The origin is a good gun, but POI shifts haunted me for quite a while. I did finally get that worked out, but I don't consider it a gun for hunting.
Thats why I got the Talon P.
Not squirels, though. Raccons and other medium sized predators. But it is .25 so I guess your state wont allow it. Makes no sense to me though.
I dont know much about the AF Condor.
The origin is a good gun, but POI shifts haunted me for quite a while. I did finally get that worked out, but I don't consider it a gun for hunting.
Thats why I got the Talon P.
Not squirels, though. Raccons and other medium sized predators. But it is .25 so I guess your state wont allow it. Makes no sense to me though.
I dont know much about the AF Condor.
Upvote 0