For what it's worth, if it leaks down to regulator set pressure then stays solid, the leak is upstream from the regulator..from the source that feeds the regulator.
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N/A Air gun reviews, the good, the bad and the ugly
- Thread starter nobody1
- Start date
I'll jump in here, since I have both been paid and review airguns. It is true that the airguns that videos get published on YouTube for my channel are true performers. Why is that? Well, for starts I make sure that I take my time (you will notice I don't publish videos every week) clean barrels, polish barrels when needed, find the right pellet or slug for the job and I will make minor adjustments to the hammer spring on occasion (often I will state that this is straight from the box if that is the case). But they can't all be accurate can they? Nope, they aren't all accurate. So why aren't there reviews showing this? Well nobody wants to pay for a review and watch a pellet fly 2 inches away from the stated target. That does me no good or the company. So what happens? In my case I return the product and move on to something else. A recent example is a break barrel that was sent to me for review. I couldn't get it so shoot a group worth a darn. I found the barrel to be trash and have the rifling pitted. It was quickly returned and I have long moved on. If it isn't working for me, it certainly won't work for those watching.
Do airguns get pre tuned? They might get tested for functionality and leaks (most businesses do this before shipping anything) but otherwise, I don't think they do. I recently did a review on a Hatsan Jet II for American Airgunner. Cecil pulled that airgun off a table at RMAC and said go review it. Brand new in the box as it should be and it was a straight shooter and not a problem to review. Almost every product I have received appears to have been pulled from stock and never has been touched. This is especially true for the larger companies.
For me and the videos I produced, if it doesn't shoot or causes me major issues then I just move on to another product that does.
I can't speak for all video makers, but for myself I try to represent the product for what it is and not what it isn't. If a product doesn't live up to my expectations, I move on.
As for the money? Ain't nobody really getting rich from running reviews. It is fun, helps the airgun community grow and for me I really enjoy the process and editing. Bit of an art actually.
Enjoy the content and feel free to ask a few questions if you have them.
Do airguns get pre tuned? They might get tested for functionality and leaks (most businesses do this before shipping anything) but otherwise, I don't think they do. I recently did a review on a Hatsan Jet II for American Airgunner. Cecil pulled that airgun off a table at RMAC and said go review it. Brand new in the box as it should be and it was a straight shooter and not a problem to review. Almost every product I have received appears to have been pulled from stock and never has been touched. This is especially true for the larger companies.
For me and the videos I produced, if it doesn't shoot or causes me major issues then I just move on to another product that does.
I can't speak for all video makers, but for myself I try to represent the product for what it is and not what it isn't. If a product doesn't live up to my expectations, I move on.
As for the money? Ain't nobody really getting rich from running reviews. It is fun, helps the airgun community grow and for me I really enjoy the process and editing. Bit of an art actually.
Enjoy the content and feel free to ask a few questions if you have them.
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The problem is reviews are just like the modern news. They don‘t give you all the data. Just only the part that covers the message they are trying to send. It’s a bummer so I just don’t watch either. I don’t like feeling misled.
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Are you saying that if a product you are reviewing is ‘trash’, that you just return it to the manufacturer / vendor and do not inform your viewers of your findings?
If this is true, then I don’t believe you are doing your subscribers any favors.
I refer to all these YouTube, so called, 'Expert airgun Reviewers' as 'whores to the industry'. They are exactly the same as the old gun writers (journalist) that wrote in all the gun magazines back before the internet. Don't be fooled by any of them..., they don't make YouTube content for you or me because of their passion for the hobby!
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The reviews I have done are for you, myself, and my passion for the hobby lol. Hence why they are slow rolling.
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I would argue just the opposite. If you see it on my channel then you can trust that the product I used was good. Nobody would work with someone who trashes their product. So if I did that then my viewers would have nobody to trust as there wouldn't be any reviews.
So at least you get to know what is good. That’s half of the buying decision. Filtering the good from the bad.
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Quality reviewers will report the Good, The Bad and The Ugly.
Unfortunately, I think these type of reviewers are a dying breed.
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The truth today is that Review videos are an important source of advertising for manufactures of any product, airguns are not excluded from this. It is simply another method of getting information out about a company's product.
I don't always agree that in order to be a quality reviewer you must state all the positives and negatives of a product, but I VERY MUCH appreciate reviewers who are honest and declare sponsorships up front. There is still a ton of good information available. Trigger pull, ergonomics, noise levels, what's included in the package etc. Many of these aspects are not covered in typical marketing info from manufacturers.
I value the views of those who also clearly state that they make independent purchases and are not paid advertisers, but be aware they are also selling something, views. In most cases this is not n issue, but in some cases these reviews can be just as skewed by a person's sample size of one or their perception of value, or even their own brand biases conscious or not.
As others have stated. the most valuable information really is right here on AGN! The group has many opinions and brand loyalties but there is enough open discussion to flush out common issues. Things like regulator creep, poor shot count, available power, etc. become common threads for certain models and you can decide which issues, prices, and performance best suit your needs.
At the end of the day there is no single source that you can base a decision on.
Just 2 cents.
I don't always agree that in order to be a quality reviewer you must state all the positives and negatives of a product, but I VERY MUCH appreciate reviewers who are honest and declare sponsorships up front. There is still a ton of good information available. Trigger pull, ergonomics, noise levels, what's included in the package etc. Many of these aspects are not covered in typical marketing info from manufacturers.
I value the views of those who also clearly state that they make independent purchases and are not paid advertisers, but be aware they are also selling something, views. In most cases this is not n issue, but in some cases these reviews can be just as skewed by a person's sample size of one or their perception of value, or even their own brand biases conscious or not.
As others have stated. the most valuable information really is right here on AGN! The group has many opinions and brand loyalties but there is enough open discussion to flush out common issues. Things like regulator creep, poor shot count, available power, etc. become common threads for certain models and you can decide which issues, prices, and performance best suit your needs.
At the end of the day there is no single source that you can base a decision on.
Just 2 cents.
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Agree... the "reviews" posted on YouTube are not actual REVIEWS like you would see on Consumer Reports. They are promotional videos usually paid for by the manufacturer to promote their merchandise. You are MUCH better off searching AGN for information from shooters that have BOUGHT and SHOT their own guns/ammo scopes.
Most "Influencers" know that if they write and publish a mediocre or bad review, they'll no longer get the freebies. So, like is said above, the guns they review are NOT "off the shelf", no manufacturer in his right mind would send a sealed box gun to a "reviewer". They are gone over, tested, cleaned, tuned, and functionally checked PRIOR to arriving at the "reviewer".
Most that "review" get their guns to promote for a few months, some get to keep them. IF they can't be made to shoot well, then they are sent back and a review isn't done - which let's face it, is dishonest...
As far as ammo, shooters that review get lots of free ammo to promote. Why do you think you see lots of reviews of H&N or ZAN (both quality ammo) and almost no reviews of Altaros, even though they IMHO are next generation and better than anything else out there??? Because Altaros doesn't send out freebies for "Influencers" to promote. Why do you think all the JTS videos say how wonderful this new pellet brand is, when in fact I've shot two versions in .22 and .25 guns (.22 Red Wolf, .25 Red Wolf, .25 Skout Epoch), and although OK, were not up to JSB standard of accuracy? Because being honest results in them not getting lots of free ammo.
Note that I say "promote" and not "test", since for almost ALL promoters, without fail, say "Accurate, amazing, hole in hole" for every single slug that is sent to them. WE ALL KNOW NOT ALL SLUGS SHOOT GREAT IN EVERY GUN, BUT THE REVIEWS WOULD HAVE YOU BELIEVE SO.
So, watch the Tubers to see what's out there and what features new guns have, etc. Don't believe much of what you see.
But use AGN to research what's really going on. And even AGN for a while had certain guns that "couldn't be criticized". A few years back you couldn't talk negatively about EdGun without the fanboys jumping all over you... Look at members that you know don't pull any punches and take that to heart. PM them if you have questions. An example is the .25 Skout Epoch thread that I started a month ago that currently has over 5,000 views. I've posted my ongoing experiences with the gun that you'd NEVER see in a Tuber video. Do I like the gun? Yes. Is it perfect? Nope...
.25 Skout Epoch mega thread
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Leo
As for negative reviews, I would imagine there is someone out there willing to make some cash on that as well. Could those negative views be influenced or biased negative points as well?
Again leaning towards the idea of gathering enough information to form a complete picture and identifying those you trust more than others. The BS reviews or uneducated* reviewers are usually easy enough to spot. *
*Uneducated in terms of not knowing the product & just there for entertainment.
Lewis makes a very good point and something I actually do when looking to purchase something. Look at the totality of all the reviews on an item. Because opinions are different, needs are different and each person is level of knowledge is different. Together, a consumer can gain a more complete picture. Of course some opinions you will value more than others. In a world where products can not always be seen or touched before purchased, YouTube and other similar outlets are a valuable resource.
As for negative reviews, I would imagine there is someone out there willing to make some cash on that as well. Could those negative views be influenced or biased negative points as well?
Again leaning towards the idea of gathering enough information to form a complete picture and identifying those you trust more than others. The BS reviews or uneducated* reviewers are usually easy enough to spot. *
*Uneducated in terms of not knowing the product & just there for entertainment.
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I would disagree with this statement. If you saw the nasty crap that I pull from barrels before I take them to the range you would know that your statement above isn’t the case.
Now has a company ever gone through and test an airgun 100% to ensure it is a shooter? Probably, but in my experience it isn’t the case. Now I’m a small channel so maybe I don’t get the same service as others?
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I respect your experiences and opinions. But for some of the bigger "reviewers" that do weekly or more frequent "reviews", have you EVER seen one that wasn't hole in hole? Ever? Common sense would tell you that's just not reality...
Here's an example. I've owned TWO EdGun .25 R5M guns, a Long and a Standard. BOTH of them had mediocre triggers, mediocre accuracy, and sloppy cocking and magazine indexing. This was a few years back and a VERY well know "reviewer" did a detailed review of the .25 R5M. Trigger excellent, cocking smooth and indexing trouble free, accuracy superb. What? At the time there we many posts and threads detailing issues and problems. It was obvious that the gun sent to this "reviewer" wasn't anything near off the shelf... He reviewed what was sent to him, so it wasn't his fault, but it did NOT represent the gun as received by those that had paid their hard-earned money for the gun...
FYI, and IMHO, the best airgun reviews done are by Cole R @Franklink on AGN. He takes his time and lists the good, the bad, and the ugly. The way he does his though, he'll only do one or two per year, since he lives with, shoots, tunes, and competes with the guns he reviews. His latest is a BRK Ghost, and the one prior to that was a .22 Daystate Red Wolf standard.
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I've felt for a long time that there aren't any actual airgun reviewers out there, can't think of a single one in fact. There are many that call themselves reviewers but I would call them previewers.
Then again here is my criteria for it to be a review:
- Complete understanding of how the rifle works and intended use of every part
- Ability to comprehend the good, bad and ugly with a gun and it's performance
- Able to tune the rifle, show how it's done and explain the process to get the most out of the rifle
- Shoot a minimum of 5000 shots of different weights, shapes, types to find ammo the gun likes and show it
The problem with the above? It takes a lot of time and that's not good in regards to the video market. What people watch is quick and short clips that last at most 10-15 minutes. People quickly get bored with people just talking and talking and talking. If I'm watching a "review" the part I hate the most is the talking unless it's info about the product and with this I mean actual information about the product.
There are very few airgun channels I subscribe to, one is Airgun Channel and it's the channel that gave me the push to start my own airgun "review" channel that I will be launching next year (just got 134kg (268 pounds?) of ammo and a box of 12 Balistol Universal to clean barrels with). I don't regard his reviews as review but as previews. The channel isn't that serious and the way he does his videos allow for quick and short videos showing of 1 rifle once a week or so.
Basically I see his videos as an elevator pitch type of video where he has a short time to try out a rifle and form an opinion based on his experience.
I don't know for sure but I think he borrows most of the rifles he shoots, though some of the stuff in his videos are for sale in the classifieds.
I don't know how much time he spends setting up or tuning the rifles but most videos seem to be out of the box performance. This is all fine and good if the factory tune is ok but it doesn't necessarily mean every gun will be like that and with some work you could probably get better performance out of the gun.
All in all I like the channel because he shows many guns and "what to expect" but I wouldn't call it a review but instead a preview or short promo of the guns.
Another problem with reviewing airguns is environmental, indoor vs outdoor shooting. I saw a video by the guys who make the Javelin slugs, in it he talked about how they were getting different performance from slugs depending on if they were shooting indoors vs outdoors. This isn't that big a problem in regards to rifles but the ammo you shoot can give you different results. Would a .177 indoor competition rifle perform just as well when shot outdoors? That would be completely based on the weather.
Ideal would be to have a 300 yard indoor range and a 300 yard outdoor range, indoor to show the real performance of the gun and outdoor to show what can be expected of the rifle. Problem is there is no such thing as a 300 yard indoor airgun range, never heard of one anyway.
At my local range there is a 10meter indoor range and a 50-300 meter outdoor range. I will be making my videos outdoors as indoor range is limited to .22 max and lower power.
TLDR: A proper review of an airgun takes too much time and costs too much money for basically 0% return. I don't even know if you can monetize airgun videos on youtube or if they are even allowed on other platforms like facebook or some such place.
I have done some basic calculations but if I'm not mistaken just the cost of the ammo I will shoot in my videos will cost around $500.
Problem is when just starting out is that you will lose a lot of money and if you get sponsored people will question your integrity because of how fake most youtubers are (especially those talking about mobile games like Raid Shadowlegends, Demolition Ranch has a horrible promo where he sacrifices one of his Epic heroes to boost the xp of a Common or was it Rare hero. This is something you would never do if you knew what you were doing which just shows how fake his promos are).
You can do many short videos that are more preview/promo or you can take the time to do a proper long review. Regardless the short form video will make you more money if that's a factor. I'm a sick pensioner so I have more free time than what I know what to do with it so figured I could do something with it.
Someone who does videos as a side hobby might simply not have the time to spend 1 month with a rifle before doing a review and the benefits of doing so simply aren't there.
Then again here is my criteria for it to be a review:
- Complete understanding of how the rifle works and intended use of every part
- Ability to comprehend the good, bad and ugly with a gun and it's performance
- Able to tune the rifle, show how it's done and explain the process to get the most out of the rifle
- Shoot a minimum of 5000 shots of different weights, shapes, types to find ammo the gun likes and show it
The problem with the above? It takes a lot of time and that's not good in regards to the video market. What people watch is quick and short clips that last at most 10-15 minutes. People quickly get bored with people just talking and talking and talking. If I'm watching a "review" the part I hate the most is the talking unless it's info about the product and with this I mean actual information about the product.
There are very few airgun channels I subscribe to, one is Airgun Channel and it's the channel that gave me the push to start my own airgun "review" channel that I will be launching next year (just got 134kg (268 pounds?) of ammo and a box of 12 Balistol Universal to clean barrels with). I don't regard his reviews as review but as previews. The channel isn't that serious and the way he does his videos allow for quick and short videos showing of 1 rifle once a week or so.
Basically I see his videos as an elevator pitch type of video where he has a short time to try out a rifle and form an opinion based on his experience.
I don't know for sure but I think he borrows most of the rifles he shoots, though some of the stuff in his videos are for sale in the classifieds.
I don't know how much time he spends setting up or tuning the rifles but most videos seem to be out of the box performance. This is all fine and good if the factory tune is ok but it doesn't necessarily mean every gun will be like that and with some work you could probably get better performance out of the gun.
All in all I like the channel because he shows many guns and "what to expect" but I wouldn't call it a review but instead a preview or short promo of the guns.
Another problem with reviewing airguns is environmental, indoor vs outdoor shooting. I saw a video by the guys who make the Javelin slugs, in it he talked about how they were getting different performance from slugs depending on if they were shooting indoors vs outdoors. This isn't that big a problem in regards to rifles but the ammo you shoot can give you different results. Would a .177 indoor competition rifle perform just as well when shot outdoors? That would be completely based on the weather.
Ideal would be to have a 300 yard indoor range and a 300 yard outdoor range, indoor to show the real performance of the gun and outdoor to show what can be expected of the rifle. Problem is there is no such thing as a 300 yard indoor airgun range, never heard of one anyway.
At my local range there is a 10meter indoor range and a 50-300 meter outdoor range. I will be making my videos outdoors as indoor range is limited to .22 max and lower power.
TLDR: A proper review of an airgun takes too much time and costs too much money for basically 0% return. I don't even know if you can monetize airgun videos on youtube or if they are even allowed on other platforms like facebook or some such place.
I have done some basic calculations but if I'm not mistaken just the cost of the ammo I will shoot in my videos will cost around $500.
Problem is when just starting out is that you will lose a lot of money and if you get sponsored people will question your integrity because of how fake most youtubers are (especially those talking about mobile games like Raid Shadowlegends, Demolition Ranch has a horrible promo where he sacrifices one of his Epic heroes to boost the xp of a Common or was it Rare hero. This is something you would never do if you knew what you were doing which just shows how fake his promos are).
You can do many short videos that are more preview/promo or you can take the time to do a proper long review. Regardless the short form video will make you more money if that's a factor. I'm a sick pensioner so I have more free time than what I know what to do with it so figured I could do something with it.
Someone who does videos as a side hobby might simply not have the time to spend 1 month with a rifle before doing a review and the benefits of doing so simply aren't there.
Another review I remember talked about making the .72 Zeus backyard friendly with a Donnyfl moderator.
Here’s a bit of advice. If the reviewer uses “The Best…,” “Game Changer…,””Must Have…,” etc 
in their titles, I’d pass on anything they have to say because chances are you’ll see that the titles of several of their “reviews” say the same thing about similar and/or comparable products. We all have biases. I like the guys that lets theirs be known then shows me how well or poorly something performs. If a review never elaborates on why they don’t like something, that’s another red flag.
in their titles, I’d pass on anything they have to say because chances are you’ll see that the titles of several of their “reviews” say the same thing about similar and/or comparable products. We all have biases. I like the guys that lets theirs be known then shows me how well or poorly something performs. If a review never elaborates on why they don’t like something, that’s another red flag. Last edited: