FX FX POI Shift : SOLVED ?

FX Maverick Compact 30 cal
Regs 160/145
Power Wheel 6

The attached pictures were 859 fps AEA 45 gr pellets @ 40 yds, 5 shot groups. When I speak of POI shift, I'm not talking about shots being randomly scattered. I'm speaking about these groups as a whole shifting randomly and needing to rezero for this (see pics). In my case, my gun came shooting 840 fps and every once in awhile I would need to adjust the scope a couple of clicks and it was good for awhile. To be honest, I thought it was the cheap scope I had. Once I got a chrono, I started adjusting reg pressures for faster fps. After increasing speeds I needed to rezero much more often, just about every day. I replaced the scope, same issues. Then I started looking into this further and discovered other people were having the same problem. I pulled my barrel liner and it had 2 orings. I ordered additional orings from Utah Airguns and the cf sleeve. I put the cf sleeve on and lost my tight groups. I did not epoxy it, and it felt a little loose, not a tight play free fit. At that point I wasn't ready to glue my liner in, so I went back to the orings. I ended up using 10 orings evenly spaced with a double in the middle, using Teflon tape beside them to help keep them in place. Same result, good for a couple days and then off 1/2". I couldn't find a solution on the internet so I decided i needed to rethink this. Something has to be moving, but what.

Here's my theory I came up with. In a perfect world a perfectly straight barrel would be ideal. In this system the liner is between the jamb nut and the block. When tightening that jamb nut, if the distance between where the liner touches it and the block is less than the length of the liner by even a mm the liner has to arc. Under tension with an arc in it is force that could cause it to rotate slightly, or arc in the opposite direction. Either of these would change the poi. My jamb nut was fairly snug but not too tight. I loosened it to what I would describe as 1/4 snug. Finger tight then just barely tightened with a wrench.

It's only been a week now but it is shooting like a laser and I have had no need to rezero. I think the 10 orings is probably overkill, but i would use at least 3 or 4. I also think the cf liner may work if epoxied. I hope this helps someone, i know i spent countless hours trying to figure it out.

Full disclosure, I am not a certified technician, just a hillbilly striving for perfection.

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FX Maverick Compact 30 cal
Regs 160/145
Power Wheel 6

The attached pictures were 859 fps AEA 45 gr pellets @ 40 yds, 5 shot groups. When I speak of POI shift, I'm not talking about shots being randomly scattered. I'm speaking about these groups as a whole shifting randomly and needing to rezero for this (see pics). In my case, my gun came shooting 840 fps and every once in awhile I would need to adjust the scope a couple of clicks and it was good for awhile. To be honest, I thought it was the cheap scope I had. Once I got a chrono, I started adjusting reg pressures for faster fps. After increasing speeds I needed to rezero much more often, just about every day. I replaced the scope, same issues. Then I started looking into this further and discovered other people were having the same problem. I pulled my barrel liner and it had 2 orings. I ordered additional orings from Utah Airguns and the cf sleeve. I put the cf sleeve on and lost my tight groups. I did not epoxy it, and it felt a little loose, not a tight play free fit. At that point I wasn't ready to glue my liner in, so I went back to the orings. I ended up using 10 orings evenly spaced with a double in the middle, using Teflon tape beside them to help keep them in place. Same result, good for a couple days and then off 1/2". I couldn't find a solution on the internet so I decided i needed to rethink this. Something has to be moving, but what.

Here's my theory I came up with. In a perfect world a perfectly straight barrel would be ideal. In this system the liner is between the jamb nut and the block. When tightening that jamb nut, if the distance between where the liner touches it and the block is less than the length of the liner by even a mm the liner has to arc. Under tension with an arc in it is force that could cause it to rotate slightly, or arc in the opposite direction. Either of these would change the poi. My jamb nut was fairly snug but not too tight. I loosened it to what I would describe as 1/4 snug. Finger tight then just barely tightened with a wrench.

It's only been a week now but it is shooting like a laser and I have had no need to rezero. I think the 10 orings is probably overkill, but i would use at least 3 or 4. I also think the cf liner may work if epoxied. I hope this helps someone, i know i spent countless hours trying to figure it out.

Full disclosure, I am not a certified technician, just a hillbilly striving for perfection.

View attachment 468872

View attachment 468873


I think your full disclosure describes many of us here.
 
So I have a maverick sniper. 30 cal, every time I pull it out of the case I have to dial my scope back in(sounds similar to your situation). Once zeroed it stays put until the next time I take it out then same thing. I have the carbon fiber sleeve as well. Once zeroed it's on spot. Regs at 160/130 NSA 54.5 grain slugs 910fps. Here's an example at 64 yards.
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I am very happy for your success, but I suspect it is premature. There are many things that will cause POI shift, but the real reason which you cannot correct is the receiver to barrel interface. To prove my point, just remove and reinstall your barrel from the receiver. The gun will not shoot where it once did. This will require a sight adjustment to compensate. If that was the only thing that has to be done, I could live with that, but if you even lightly bump the barrel, the POI will change and that is what I cannot accept. Otherwise these FX guns will shoot pellet on pellet, just don't bump the gun.
 
I am very happy for your success, but I suspect it is premature. There are many things that will cause POI shift, but the real reason which you cannot correct is the receiver to barrel interface. To prove my point, just remove and reinstall your barrel from the receiver. The gun will not shoot where it once did. This will require a sight adjustment to compensate. If that was the only thing that has to be done, I could live with that, but if you even lightly bump the barrel, the POI will change and that is what I cannot accept. Otherwise these FX guns will shoot pellet on pellet, just don't bump the gun.
Yes, I'm sure there are multiple factors that cause this poi shift. I don't believe I am having an issue with the barrel bump. I suspect that is more sensitive for the longer barrels than my 500mm. Only time will tell on how long my "fix" will work, but at the very least it had a definite effect and is an improvement for me. Thx for the input.
 
Yes, I'm sure there are multiple factors that cause this poi shift. I don't believe I am having an issue with the barrel bump. I suspect that is more sensitive for the longer barrels than my 500mm. Only time will tell on how long my "fix" will work, but at the very least it had a definite effect and is an improvement for me. Thx for the input.
Mr. Ernest Rowe has many videos covering this issue with the FX barrel assemblies. You can actually put a permanent bend into a barrel liner if you tighten the muzzle jam nut too tight, and it doesnt take much. Same with the whole assembly when using a tensioner system, you can bend or warp the housing and everything. Too loose and you could possibly see poi shifting, so Id bet you did improve your liner consistency. But I agree with the above posts, there are several other causes for poi shifts in the FX system you may or may not experience in the future. Imo, the FX Carbon Fiber Sleeve should be included in every FX rifle sold.
 
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But if you fill up the liner with 60 orings, it should not be able to arc or bend if you tight the locknut abit to hard?
No, because the housing will also bend. The CF Sleeve has the best tolerance fit and virtually no ability to squish like orings do, but you could still in theory bend the assembly. A tensioner with the CF Sleeve will give you the strongest truest setup on an FX imo/ime. But if the tensioner isnt 100% true and square it will also deflect the assembly lol. I have a 700mm setup on my MK2 with the CF Sleeve and Huma Tensioner kit and it has been very rigid and no poi shifting after months of banging it around and picking it up by the barrel etc. It had a pretty bad poi shift stock from handling it; and I got tired of having to verify my zero every couple hours before taking a pest shot. My M3 has a 500mm barrel with a factory shroud and CF Sleeve and has been much better but still has poi shifts from time to time. I will be figuring out some kind of tensioner for it soon though.
 
I marked the top of my jam nut with black marker so when I remove it, I know which side faces up when retightening it. Gets a more consistent result.

No, because the housing will also bend. The CF Sleeve has the best tolerance fit and virtually no ability to squish like orings do, but you could still in theory bend the assembly. A tensioner with the CF Sleeve will give you the strongest truest setup on an FX imo/ime. But if the tensioner isnt 100% true and square it will also deflect the assembly lol. I have a 700mm setup on my MK2 with the CF Sleeve and Huma Tensioner kit and it has been very rigid and no poi shifting after months of banging it around and picking it up by the barrel etc. It had a pretty bad poi shift stock from handling it; and I got tired of having to verify my zero every couple hours before taking a pest shot. My M3 has a 500mm barrel with a factory shroud and CF Sleeve and has been much better but still has poi shifts from time to time. I will be figuring out some kind of tensioner for it soon though.
UPDATE: looks like I'm back to square one, it lasted a week and back to a poi shift. The jamb nut had come loose. Thx for the info but I don't see an option for a tensioner on a 500mm.
 
I used to think that the FX externally applied rifling with the associated and seemingly necessary thin barrel was an interesting and possibly very good idea. Then others said the liners are not smooth inside as I assumed but are at least as rough as conventional barrels. Then I heard of POI shift and it makes sense that a very thin barrel is going to tend to have more issues with POI. I'm sure they are great rifles but I no longer think that method of making a barrel is a great idea. It's always going to be easier to move a thin barrel around. From vibration as well as from force. They don't offer a bullpup that would work for me shooting from my left shoulder anyway but even if they did, I think the really thin barrel would keep them off my list. I hope you guys have success but it seems like you are trying to make up for an inherent weakness.
 
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UPDATE: I tightened my jamb nut again, left the 10 o rings on the liner and decided to go a different route. I have the compact so I did not think "barrel bump" or shift was an issue, but turns out I may have been wrong. I added spacers (see pic) between my shroud and the block. 2 nylon with one steel one in the middle, but only because that's what I needed to achieve the desired thickness. Of course then I had to rezero, that made the poi much higher, like 5-6 inches higher at 40 yds. It seems to be working, no poi shift in 10 days now. Will update again if it fails but I think it's good now. And it only took me a year to figure it out, lol.

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