Have i and all other Danish .177 shooters missed something ?

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Peashooter

Peashooter

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Apr 9, 2021
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I E-mailed Zan in regard to their new 22 and 24 grain .177 slugs.

CUZ i am a bit confused as to who would shoot them and in what, CUZ myself and i think most other Danish shooters, well when we get to 16 grain in weight that is about all we can get to fly well out of a range of things people here shoot ( FX - Daystate and what not )

But unless i am the victim of a terrible case of #2 language VS #2 language, it seem like there is a Heavy barrel i am not aware off.

This is the RPLY i got from Zan.

" It is about twist of the barrel. Standard fx liners shot up to 16 grains, all heavier they werent stabilised. New heavy liner and most of the cz, lw barrel do shoot well those.
If your fx shoots 20 grains side way then you dont have the real heavy barrel in. New heavy barrel shoots 20 grain the best of all.
22 grain is same lenght as 20 grains just flat point and 24 is slightly longer "

My CZub barrel in the Two do not shoot 20 grain well, the Heavy barrel in my Maverick also do not do that, actually it is even worse than the Two i feel.
Tried speeds of 850 - 1050 in both rifles. And of course MANY boxes of ammo, and not forgetting many hours on the range.

So i am thinking, either there is a new Heavy barrel in .177 i am not aware off, or my and other Danish shooters idea of well shooting are not in line with what other feel is well shooting.
 
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I wonder the same, also with H&N which i have never been able to get to fly right out of any rifle of mine, even lighter 13 gr stuff that otherwise fly well.

I did hear whispers of FX making a proper Heavy liner for the .177 caliber, CUZ the existing one,,,, well it aint heavy i feel, it might shoot 16 grain OK but that is far from the heaviest stuff in .177, and even more so now they make 22 and 24 grain slugs.

IF FX make a new better heavy barrel, well then i will get one for my maverick and try to make that one my heavy hitter.
 
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Peashooter said:
I E-mailed Zan in regard to their new 22 and 24 grain .177 slugs.

CUZ i am a bit confused as to who would shoot them and in what, CUZ myself and i think most other Danish shooters, well when we get to 16 grain in weight that is about all we can get to fly well out of a range of things people here shoot ( FX - Daystate and what not )

But unless i am the victim of a terrible case of #2 language VS #2 language, it seem like there is a Heavy barrel i am not aware off.

This is the RPLY i got from Zan.

" It is about twist of the barrel. Standard fx liners shot up to 16 grains, all heavier they werent stabilised. New heavy liner and most of the cz, lw barrel do shoot well those.
If your fx shoots 20 grains side way then you dont have the real heavy barrel in. New heavy barrel shoots 20 grain the best of all.
22 grain is same lenght as 20 grains just flat point and 24 is slightly longer "

My CZub barrel in the Two do not shoot 20 grain well, the Heavy barrel in my Maverick also do not do that, actually it is even worse than the Two i feel.
Tried speeds of 850 - 1050 in both rifles. And of course MANY boxes of ammo, and not forgetting many hours on the range.

So i am thinking, either there is a new Heavy barrel in .177 i am not aware off, or my and other Danish shooters idea of well shooting are not in line with what other feel is well shooting.
Click to expand...
I have been writing here since last Feb 2023 my Revere shoots 22grain to perfection...including replies to your posts.
Zan knows the Revere in .177cal shoots perfect with 22grain. I have via mail complimented ZAN for these.
FX barrels are really not made for true projectiles. Here one need a barrels that has a traditional land-and-groove rifling(this I have been writing too so many time here on AN).
 
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I am not aware of any FX slugs barrels being made at this point. My FX Crown MK2 600mm shoots the 13.4 gr the best at 990-1000fps. 16 gr? Not as well. 20 gr? Forget it. I now am shooting a RAW with an LW barrel. Experience is about the same. There isn’t much barrel development being done by manufacturers for slug shooters.
 
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Yeah so i understand.
That revere isent that a LW barrel ? and i would assume a fairly normal twist rate.

Anyway my Vulcan 3 did not shoot the 20 grainers well, and it is also the same with my new Two rifle with the unchoked CZub barrel

When my 20 grainers ( shjot by Two rifle ) arrive at 86 M they are keyholing.
13 and 16 grain slugs make nice round holes as they should be

20grZan.jpg
 
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Most offerings have too slow a twist rate for heavy pills per caliber. Unfortunately there are no definitives published as yet for our projectiles / at our velocities with a constant push that I am aware of. There have been articles here and there concerning this but generally on a specific unit and not broad spectrum. To get an idea one has only to look at the Aguila 60 grain pill in a .22 rimfire. It fires at apx 7-800 fps, with rim fire barrels mostly at 1-16 twist it does not stabilize. In this particular case something in the area of 1/7 to1/9 twist rate is needed. Using this example would be a starting point for our air gun barrels and heavy pills. Polygonal bores would be another interesting area to explore rather than tradtional land and groove. Another area that needs more attention is the hardness of our pills. Too hard a compound will not upset correctly into the lands and groves. We do not have the avantage of a 15000+psi or more instant hit on our pills to cause upsetting into rifling. ( hence some of the reason for those thin skirts on the wasp shaped items ) Ain't no phd but I do know the basics after 40 years of competition in multiple formats.
 
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I have 2 old 177 liners, .177/700 FX, reworked to 670 mm. Removed the choke and reamed the breech to ‘ liner inside ‘size. They shoot the 20 gr Zan at 940 like a lazer. The 20 gr H&N does well to but Zan is better.
Also fitted an Alfa 1/38cm twist 670 mm L which does the 16 gr very well At 960. Both Zan and H&N.
That all in my Crown Continiuum in a Saber Tactical stock. One of the FX barrels is the lightweight in the original 700 shroud and one in an self made shortened barrel tube. If I can get some of the heavier Zan slugs I will let you know.
 
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Peashooter said:
When my 20 grainers ( shjot by Two rifle ) arrive at 86 M they are keyholing.
13 and 16 grain slugs make nice round holes as they should be

View attachment 477549
Click to expand...
When the slugs make target holes like that it just means they haven’t had time to stabilize yet. Around 500 meters you should see them straighten out and your groups will shrink to 1/2 MOA. 😉😂
 
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"Removed the choke and reamed the breech to ‘ liner inside ‘size. They shoot the 20 gr Zan at 940 like a lazer. The 20 gr H&N does well to but Zan is better."

Daum dont tempt me, my Maverick was born 600 mm and i have two 700 mm barrels both the vanilla one and the Heavy.

Was that a heavy you cut the choke off ????? i would be inclined to try something like that with the regular barrel, but i would not like to cut into the heavy one.
Viking airgunner seem to push 16 grainers fine with his 600 mm impact, i am sure i could get a 20 gr slug up to those sub 1000 FPS just fine in the maverick.

Krale have the 22 and 24gr Zan slugs, it was on their page i saw them first.
Only now do Zan them self list the 2 new ones.

lbc_PSI said:
haven’t had time to stabilize yet
Click to expand...
Actually some times with the sun in the back, i have seen them spiral, its like shooting a 1/4 sized metallic golf ball.
The point of the slug seem to be stabel but the rear just whip around, so with the sun from the back it is very easy to see it perform like that.
 
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Peashooter said:
"Removed the choke and reamed the breech to ‘ liner inside ‘size. They shoot the 20 gr Zan at 940 like a lazer. The 20 gr H&N does well to but Zan is better."

Daum dont tempt me, my Maverick was born 600 mm and i have two 700 mm barrels both the vanilla one and the Heavy.

Was that a heavy you cut the choke off ????? i would be inclined to try something like that with the regular barrel, but i would not like to cut into the heavy one.
Viking airgunner seem to push 16 grainers fine with his 600 mm impact, i am sure i could get a 20 gr slug up to those sub 1000 FPS just fine in the maverick.

Krale have the 22 and 24gr Zan slugs, it was on their page i saw them first.
Only now do Zan them self list the 2 new ones.


Actually some times with the sun in the back, i have seen them spiral, its like shooting a 1/4 sized metallic golf ball.
The point of the slug seem to be stabel but the rear just whip around, so with the sun from the back it is very easy to see it perform like that.
Click to expand...
Haven’t checked Krale but will look. Both liners where standard and had an pretty heavy choke. Have a hint of choke left. Also found that most FX have something like a choke in the breech side. Get an brass rod , 4 mm, long enough to push an slug trough the liner and you will see what I mean. And yes a heavy slug will fly better with a faster twist and no choke. Thats why I fitted an Alfa with the fastest twist I could buy. The fastest new ones Alfa sells now are 1/15.
Due to some healht problems I cannot go to the range, it is more than 3 months now and will take months more…..
My Epic 2 project is on an halt to sadly……..
 
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Nice Søren.

I will chop up one of my 700 mm FX barrels on Monday, its been a long long while since the Maverick looked stock.
I can not play at the daystate level, that's toys for young / fit / working / money making peeps, not old people on a pension.

I might order a Alpha precession barrel with a little more twist, i just have to work out how to work it myself, or get someone to do it, but i would like to try that on my Two.
Also these days with the Russians not winning any popularity contests, i am not sure i could even get one of those aside for the few EU sellers that have some but not really the one i would like.

Also need to E-mail them to know more stiff , like choke or no choke,,,,, on their page they do not mention choke but not sure.
 
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Well my Maverick are now back to its stock length with a sawed off FX barrel.
It do look / feel quite strange as i have been shooting it in 700 mm format for so long, for a moment i was even nervous the factory FX shroud was too little.
But everything went together just fine, even if the barrel are 602 mm long to have a little slack in case i have to try something else with the crown.

The barrel was cut to the new length with a dremel with a cutting disk, while the barrel was being spun around by a hand drill, also spun like what for my ghetto crowning initial stages.

A quick chrono session and i have the maverick shooting 16 gr Zan slugs at 970 fps in my living room.
The REG are now at 100 BAR to allow for speeds like that, will have to UP that a bit if i want to try the 20 gr slugs i packed, but i am going to start with 16 grain but those was also pretty horrible in the 700 mm heavy barrel

I will have to wait until Tuesday to see if it can hit the broad side of a barn or not.
 
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Olle Grieze said:
I have 2 old 177 liners, .177/700 FX, reworked to 670 mm. Removed the choke and reamed the breech to ‘ liner inside ‘size. They shoot the 20 gr Zan at 940 like a lazer. The 20 gr H&N does well to but Zan is better.
Also fitted an Alfa 1/38cm twist 670 mm L which does the 16 gr very well At 960. Both Zan and H&N.
That all in my Crown Continiuum in a Saber Tactical stock. One of the FX barrels is the lightweight in the original 700 shroud and one in an self made shortened barrel tube. If I can get some of the heavier Zan slugs I will let you know.
Click to expand...
I have a Crown MK2 in a Saber Tactical stock and it came with a 600 mm barrel. I've never seen a 700 mm available. It's too long anyway. It's unfortunate that there are no choices in slug diameter for .177 caliber like there is for others. The slug must be carefully matched to the bore diameter.
 
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You guys confusing the audience with all those naming "heavy" "super heavy" "superior" "CZ" barrels....combined with whatever length ....
Can you just say "Twist Rate 1:24" for example ???
And if you really wannabe anal with info "slight choke" or "heavy choke" or just push the pellet/slug through that choke and publish the OD .....


Edit: btw I have two .25x700 two .25x600 and .22x600 liners in a gun case I had to write it down which is which one :(
 
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I would like to make it official.
I love my sawed off Maverick ( barrel ) :love:
On Monday i got the door to the new shot shed done, and i got a few hours in on the Maverick before it got too dark ( shooting 55 M )
But things did not look half bad with 16 and 20 gr Zan slugs, i for sure soon concluded that come today, even if i also brought my Two, well the Maverick was first to see action.

So with the new range we have 3 options as it is right now, the new short range are 55 M - What use to be my range of 86 M is now all grown up to 93 M which i think is darn close to 100 yards - And then the new long range, well it is now 123 M.
That is according to the Leupold range finder.

So today i have been shooting 93 and 123 M with the Maverick and 20 grain Zan slugs, and it was quite wholesome, so the 1 tin i had of 20 grain was soon gone. ( im ordering 20 - 22 and 24 grainers real soon )

Also fed the Maverick some 16 grain Zans, and those too it like in its sawed off condition, at least a helluv a lot better than it have been before.
I have not inspected targets close up, but both 93 and 123 M with the 20 grainers the landing holes look nice and round.
Then later today i whipped out the Two but only shot 55 M with it as the wind had picked up.

Actually i am sort of contemplating also chopping up my 700 mm Heavy barrel.
BUT ! the Maverick are here forth declared my heavy hitter ( 950 FPS / 20gr = 40 fp )

PS: On the down side, chopping off the choke on the FX barrel, well it seem to have had a negative effect on the performance of Beast pellets.
 
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Peashooter said:
I would like to make it official.
I love my sawed off Maverick ( barrel ) :love:
On Monday i got the door to the new shot shed done, and i got a few hours in on the Maverick before it got too dark ( shooting 55 M )
But things did not look half bad with 16 and 20 gr Zan slugs, i for sure soon concluded that come today, even if i also brought my Two, well the Maverick was first to see action.

So with the new range we have 3 options as it is right now, the new short range are 55 M - What use to be my range of 86 M is now all grown up to 93 M which i think is darn close to 100 yards - And then the new long range, well it is now 123 M.
That is according to the Leupold range finder.

So today i have been shooting 93 and 123 M with the Maverick and 20 grain Zan slugs, and it was quite wholesome, so the 1 tin i had of 20 grain was soon gone. ( im ordering 20 - 22 and 24 grainers real soon )

Also fed the Maverick some 16 grain Zans, and those too it like in its sawed off condition, at least a helluv a lot better than it have been before.
I have not inspected targets close up, but both 93 and 123 M with the 20 grainers the landing holes look nice and round.
Then later today i whipped out the Two but only shot 55 M with it as the wind had picked up.

Actually i am sort of contemplating also chopping up my 700 mm Heavy barrel.
BUT ! the Maverick are here forth declared my heavy hitter ( 950 FPS / 20gr = 40 fp )

PS: On the down side, chopping off the choke on the FX barrel, well it seem to have had a negative effect on the performance of Beast pellets.
Click to expand...
Did you cut 10 cm of the front of the liner or 5 cm both sides? Good to see that cutting the choke had a good effect.
 
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10 cm off the front, the barrel are turned a little in the breech end so a slug / pellet will just " fall " in there, well at least for a few mm, if you try the same in the other end you will not get very far.
The FX barrels have a slight grove turned on the outside in the breech end so you can put it back in the gun in the right orientation if you had it out of it.
 
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