BSA I finally got a springer

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Bedrock Bob said:
Shooting a springer is a lot like bump firing an AR from the shoulder. You have to work with the recoil. Once you have that down they shoot great.

You have to hold it so you just limit the rearward recoil. Too loose and it will run into your shoulder. Too tight and it will bounce off your shoulder and twist. There is a perfect spot where the gun just rattles between your shoulder and your off hand.

I pull it against my shoulder with my offhand just about as much as the spring force. No more. The shoulder dampens the rearward recoil. The offhand dampens the forward.

Off bags on a bench it's tricky. I find an old camera tripod with a foam pad on top works easier than bags. I find that holding the rear of the rifle rather than a tail bag works best. The rear rest makes more difference than the front one. I shoot circular patterns with a bag in the back. Things calm down when I just hold it against my shoulder.

The first rearward recoil will run into your shoulder and down a bit. This tilts the gun up slightly. Then the piston slams forward violently and jerks the gun up more. In my experience a springer will always shoot a little higher from a bag. I think it is because the gun only has one way to go...up.

Gel knee pads or seat cushions work well up front. Still a rested springer can be squirrelly from a bag. The little tripod seems the easiest way to get it under control. I have used two wide bags along the full length of the forestock and just held the rifle in the back letting the weight of the gun dampen the front. It works good with a long gun. Short ones not so much.

Think bump firing from the shoulder. But instead of pulling the rifle into the trigger and feeling the recoil bounce it off your shoulder, you push the rifle into your shoulder slightly and follow with your trigger finger. The effect is the same. The rifle jumps in a controlled way between your offhand and your shoulder and your hold just limits the travel without affecting the shot.

It's a bit magic and a bit physics. But once you figure out the cadence of the recoil and how much to pull it into your shoulder without it bouncing around it will shoot consistently. Rearrange the bags up front. Loose the rear bag. Put a limbsaver butt pad on it. Stuff some brightly colored gel stuff under the forearm. Shoot it off a tripod with a wobbly rest. Sling it in a piece of leather or fabric across a yoke. All of these things will help keep the vibration under control through the shot cycle. But IMHO the most important thing is to try and pull it into your shoulder with exactly the same force as the spring will create when you turn that sucker loose. If this tension is correct the gun won't run into your shoulder nor bounce off. It will just cycle with no movement of the POA.
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I'll have to try it again. I'm gripping the rifle tight at the trigger hand and been pulling it tight to the shoulder. I haven't done much offhand shooting with it either. Been using a Caldwell steady rest, and definitely getting that circular pattern above my groups.
 
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Dr. Kralenstein said:
I'll have to try it again. I'm gripping the rifle tight at the trigger hand and been pulling it tight to the shoulder. I haven't done much offhand shooting with it either. Been using a Caldwell steady rest, and definitely getting that circular pattern above my groups.
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Then there you go. I bet it shoots button holes when you get it right against your shoulder and just pull the trigger with your right hand. That's the hand that gets in the way of good patterns. Don't grip it. Put your thumb along the right side of the gun. Just use the index finger to initiate a shot. The rest of your right hand is a liability. It just pushes or drags the gun during recoil. You want that vibration running straight back and forth between your shoulder and off hand. If your trigger hand influences the shot it's going to have a negative effect.

I think circular patterns are the gun twisting. If your right hand is dragging on the grip it twists more. If it bounces off your shoulder on the forward stroke it twists more.

Shooting a bow well requires zero torque on the bow or the string while holding all that force back. Then releasing the string with no sideways torque. It's a lot the same with a springer except you don't have to hold the spring back. The very same principal of holding the resistance in a controlled fashion so the chaos of recoil does not affect the shot. Hopefully that analogy might open a window for you.

A slingshot, a speargun, a bow, and a pellet gun have a lot in common. Master one and you can use those techniques to master the other. It's all about handling all that movement and vibration without affecting the projectile.
 
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They’re not for everyone.

I had one of those a few years back, it was an oddity, it was .25.

Couldn’t get it to shoot right till I found the magic pellet.

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I'm just now getting good groups from mt HW77 .177. I have been (center balancing) the gun and touching it to my shoulder with a light grip with my trigger hand and squeezing the trigger while trying to keep the cross hairs on target. My groups have tightened up quite a bit and become more consistent.

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Dr. Kralenstein said:
I'll have to try it again. I'm gripping the rifle tight at the trigger hand and been pulling it tight to the shoulder. I haven't done much offhand shooting with it either. Been using a Caldwell steady rest, and definitely getting that circular pattern above my groups.
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I also had a issue with my scope moving on a Diana 48 a few years back, might check your rings.
 
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coastal drifter said:
I also had a issue with my scope moving on a Diana 48 a few years back, might check your rings.
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Everything is rock solid and has a stop pin built into the scope rail. Reticle isn't broken either.

I did try a looser grip and it seems to group better, but it was raining so I didn't try distance yet, just some shots in the basement. Will try at 30 yards after I get done working out.
 
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So one problem the XLs had when they first came out was the end cap on the shroud would cause clipping. That was an issue on mine and I had to drill it out a bit. Once I did I got stellar accuracy. Mine likes 15g JSBs.

The forearm screws were cheap and I had to replace mine as well bc the heads would strip.

Not sure how much it was shot by the previous owner and it shouldn't be an issue on an older gun but you might leave the gun cocked over night to set the spring and it may calm down a bit. The BSAs have a 30mm cylinder and short stroke which is nice because the shot cycle is quick where as guns with a long stroke tend to linger a bit if that makes sense.

If it's still jumpy last resort would be to get some spring tar on it to calm the cycle down a bit. I can give you instructions on how to if it comes to that.
 
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xsarfc9x said:
So one problem the XLs had when they first came out was the end cap on the shroud would cause clipping. That was an issue on mine and I had to drill it out a bit. Once I did I got stellar accuracy. Mine likes 15g JSBs.

The forearm screws were cheap and I had to replace mine as well bc the heads would strip.

Not sure how much it was shot by the previous owner and it shouldn't be an issue on an older gun but you might leave the gun cocked over night to set the spring and it may calm down a bit. The BSAs have a 30mm cylinder and short stroke which is nice because the shot cycle is quick where as guns with a long stroke tend to linger a bit if that makes sense.

If it's still jumpy last resort would be to get some spring tar on it to calm the cycle down a bit. I can give you instructions on how to if it comes to that.
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This is an older model, pre XL. Not sure the age, but im assuming early 90s. Still smells like oil when fired the first few shots each time. It's putting out just over advertised velocity so I'm guessing it's still good inside. It's not twangy at all, just a good thoomp sound when fired.

Seems to like the 14 grain pellets so far.
 
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Dr. Kralenstein said:
This is an older model, pre XL. Not sure the age, but im assuming early 90s. Still smells like oil when fired the first few shots each time. It's putting out just over advertised velocity so I'm guessing it's still good inside. It's not twangy at all, just a good thoomp sound when fired.

Seems to like the 14 grain pellets so far.
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Your model is a BSA Lightning XL if the prefix on the serial number is DS. All Lightnings that had the shroud were XLs. I was in the UK from 04-08 and I think in 04 or 05 the XLs had just come out. I got my XL in 2006 used while there.

To my knowledge there was no model before the XL that was set up like yours unless it was a rebrand that BSA would do for Brocock or Parker Hale. That being said BSA had sent a few oddballs State side. I have a Airspotter RB2 with a maxirail and to my knowledge there are no other ones in that configuration.
 
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Bedrock Bob said:
Shooting a springer is a lot like bump firing an AR from the shoulder. You have to work with the recoil. Once you have that down they shoot great.

You have to hold it so you just limit the rearward recoil. Too loose and it will run into your shoulder. Too tight and it will bounce off your shoulder and twist. There is a perfect spot where the gun just rattles between your shoulder and your off hand.

I pull it against my shoulder with my offhand just about as much as the spring force. No more. The shoulder dampens the rearward recoil. The offhand dampens the forward.

Off bags on a bench it's tricky. I find an old camera tripod with a foam pad on top works easier than bags. I find that holding the rear of the rifle rather than a tail bag works best. The rear rest makes more difference than the front one. I shoot circular patterns with a bag in the back. Things calm down when I just hold it against my shoulder.

The first rearward recoil will run into your shoulder and down a bit. This tilts the gun up slightly. Then the piston slams forward violently and jerks the gun up more. In my experience a springer will always shoot a little higher from a bag. I think it is because the gun only has one way to go...up.

Gel knee pads or seat cushions work well up front. Still a rested springer can be squirrelly from a bag. The little tripod seems the easiest way to get it under control. I have used two wide bags along the full length of the forestock and just held the rifle in the back letting the weight of the gun dampen the front. It works good with a long gun. Short ones not so much.

Think bump firing from the shoulder. But instead of pulling the rifle into the trigger and feeling the recoil bounce it off your shoulder, you push the rifle into your shoulder slightly and follow with your trigger finger. The effect is the same. The rifle jumps in a controlled way between your offhand and your shoulder and your hold just limits the travel without affecting the shot.

It's a bit magic and a bit physics. But once you figure out the cadence of the recoil and how much to pull it into your shoulder without it bouncing around it will shoot consistently. Rearrange the bags up front. Loose the rear bag. Put a limbsaver butt pad on it. Stuff some brightly colored gel stuff under the forearm. Shoot it off a tripod with a wobbly rest. Sling it in a piece of leather or fabric across a yoke. All of these things will help keep the vibration under control through the shot cycle. But IMHO the most important thing is to try and pull it into your shoulder with exactly the same force as the spring will create when you turn that sucker loose. If this tension is correct the gun won't run into your shoulder nor bounce off. It will just cycle with no movement of the POA.

If you loose the rests all together and just sit with your elbows on your knees things come together pretty quickly. Your hold will be almost as steady as fully rested and recoil won't matter much. You naturally learn the hold without fiddling with bags and rests. A hard kicking gun will shoot tighter patterns like this than rested on bags. A smooth gun will shoot almost as good. You can feel the rifles movement better and it teaches you the proper hold tension faster. A few hundred rounds shooting with elbows on your knees and you can put the gun on a rest and shoot it much better. If you pick it up, hold the weight in your hands your body will learn what it needs automatically. Just hold it and shoot it until your muscle memory kicks in. Then go back to a rest and punch paper. Things will be much easier.
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I have been shooting a springer for a few months short of 50 years now. Started with a FWB 124D back in very early 1975 and never heard anything about these special holds. I just took it out and started shooting. My eyes were a lot better then and I would shoot indoors in USAF base housing, from one bedroom, down a hall and across another bedroom, probably about 15 yards and had no problem with nickle to quarter size groups using the factory opens. It did not take long to get a williams receiver sight and those groups shrunk drastically then. I never had a really good rest then, I would take a dining room chair sit in one and use another for a rest, with possibly a throw pillow on the back. Honestly a lot more fun than the fancy tripod and rear rest I have now, used mostly for zeroing, I am getting more back to basics like standing up offhand or sitting in a patio chair with a little rocking action, legs crossed using elbow on knee for a rest. I honestly never held the gun loosly or very tight as there was no recoil involved like some of my high power centerfire rifles.
 
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jkingrph said:
I have been shooting a springer for a few months short of 50 years now. Started with a FWB 124D back in very early 1975 and never heard anything about these special holds. I just took it out and started shooting. My eyes were a lot better then and I would shoot indoors in USAF base housing, from one bedroom, down a hall and across another bedroom, probably about 15 yards and had no problem with nickle to quarter size groups using the factory opens. It did not take long to get a williams receiver sight and those groups shrunk drastically then. I never had a really good rest then, I would take a dining room chair sit in one and use another for a rest, with possibly a throw pillow on the back. Honestly a lot more fun than the fancy tripod and rear rest I have now, used mostly for zeroing, I am getting more back to basics like standing up offhand or sitting in a patio chair with a little rocking action, legs crossed using elbow on knee for a rest. I honestly never held the gun loosly or very tight as there was no recoil involved like some of my high power centerfire rifles.
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By the time a rifle recoils the bullet is gone. Recoil in a rifle only affects the shooter before the shot. Not the projectile after. The bullet leaving the barrel produces the recoil.

The recoil in an airgun happens before the pellet starts moving. So recoil does affect the projectile. There is a lot going on there before the pellet starts moving.

Some air rifles it just does not matter much. Most air rifles it does. Getting the right hold on an airgun is paramount to accuracy when shooting off any type of rest. With the gun held it matters less. Standing offhand it only matters a little.

99.7% of patterning problems are a result of not handling the recoil correctly. You can shoot OK without developing that. But you can't shoot really well without learning a hold that controls the back and forth jump of the spring and piston.

You can shoot and hold a centerfire rifle like an airgun and get great results. But you just can't shoot an airgun like a centerfire rifle and shoot to the performance level of the gun.

Again it's just like trying to bump fire a semi auto. But reverse. Instead of mounting the rifle and pulling the gun into your trigger finger with your offhand and letting the gun bounce off your shoulder to reset and trip the trigger. You pull the rifle into your shoulder just enough to offset the thrust of the spring.

It's real my friend. Even if you have had good luck without experimenting with it. Even if you have had years of experience and think it does not matter. That's just the way it is.

You probably learned to hold the gun right through years of practice and just didn't analyze it much. That's the way most of us learned. It's not so much a conscious effort as it is muscle memory in response to the gun. For someone who is having trouble patterning a springer this analysis will shorten their learning curve by a bunch. For someone who has already mastered a springer I can understand how it might make no sense at all.
 
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Dr. Kralenstein said:
I'm getting cold feet on this whole springer thing guys.

I've spent probably 4 hours shooting this rifle, and I can't stay consistent. I will get a decent group, 1"- 1.5" at 30 yards. Then they just get wild. The hold sensitivity is killing me. I'm used to dime sized groups at 40 yards from a pcp.

The focus it takes to shoot one vs a pcp isn't going to work for me for pesting sparrows and squirrels. Maybe squirrels, but I don't feel confident trying for birds with this.

I might be kicking this down the road ASAP and putting that money towards my AA S510.
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You nailed it, why a went from pure PCP to 50/50 PCP springer. Freakin PCP’s got boring to me. I enjoy the challenge of shooting springers. Ya it probably sounds silly but missing is OK. It’s now like 70/30 springer to PCP. Sitting in my yard, drinking a beer, watching football or golf while shooting targets with my springers is relaxing and so much fun. Multitasking. 🤣
 
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I would go to a 14.3 - 15 gr pellet. If you can do this it may help. I don't shoot my springers often anymore, and when I do I have trouble with consistency. I set cans and golf balls 2-30 yards away and start plinking offhand. This helps me with hold and follow through. Once you can consistently hit what you aim at try grouping it again. Just a suggestion.
 
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