Other Why so expensive?

BrazosbyNemo · Aug 14, 2024

It’s only worth the extra money if you use them. When people ask why I spend so much on an Airgun my answer is I use them way more than my firearms. If I am going to shoot a rifle a lot I want a nice one. That’s not always the case. A few years ago I needed a cheap 22 rifle to throw in a gun rack when driving around my place. One of those carried a lot and not shot much rifles. I didn’t need an Anschutz. I bought the cheapest rifle I could find, a Savage 64 with a $8 scope I got on sale at Amazon. Works great for that. Now if I had planned to shoot that rifle a lot I would have spent more for a nicer rifle with a great trigger, great barrel, nice stock & scope, etc.

HogKiller · Aug 14, 2024

Florida_Man said:
Some things punch above price, some bellow, snd some you expect.

Expected - Concept, Revere, and Cricket
Above - Snowpeak P35 and PP700
Below - Maverick

Just my experience from what i have owned.

I think that you underestimate the Maverick but I'm a touch biased, mine work very well......now.

Dairyboy · Aug 14, 2024

Some of us have had experiences with guns of lower costs that had issues, be it regulators, POI shifts, so so accuracy that we have stepped up to more expensive guns. Depending on uses the higher end airguns are definitely worth the money. However some are losing their appeal with all the fancy doodads on them. As a hunter/pester I value guns that are over built, accurate and dependable. No reg creep, slow first shots, POI shifts nothing. A gun I can grab at any time and if I have the correct distance and reason the wind that pest is dead. Usually you need to spend more for that to happen. I will spend the money to have that. Now I have 2 Taipan Vets that I bought each used for under $1000 so they can be found cheaper. But others I've owned and depended on with no misses were the Edgun R5M which is ~$1800 and AAA Evol Mini around ~$2600 both well worth the money and lived up to their costs.

wgd · Aug 14, 2024

I believe most AGs get bored shooting the same ole guns. It seems natural that everyone wants multiple guns and turns them over. Proof, look at how guns many of us own have sold or traded. I believe it comes down to, if you own a $3k gun how many other guns can you afford? If I buy a $3 to $4k gun are my second through 8th guns big box trash? I’m not going to apologize for my budget. I like owning 2 GKs, a K1, a RAW 1100 which I won, an hw 44, and 3 HWs in 30, 50 and 95 among others. Variety is a good thing. One $3k gun would cost me more than all 3 springers and a GK together. And no one should say I’m sacrificing quality on my 4 for 1 gun example. It comes down to how much can you afford and how many to keep you interested IMHO.

boscoebrea · Aug 14, 2024

I always get more for my money,I study,I have time, never rush, and read all I can about what I Think I want..I then buy used,yes indeed I know the good prices and when something comes I want I bid on it or buy it outright.
you sure do not have to spend over $1000 for a great PCP.used...or get a new one .My point is study and learn by yourself First,then you are better prepared to ask pointed questions about what you think you may want....
.22 rimfires are way easier to shoot and shoot good than air rifles, um maybe not... they are separate but equal.I like both,but air guns are kooler,

orangeokie · Aug 14, 2024

I own around 12 air rifles. These listed are walnut and steel traditional styling. I have ordered them in my opinion of quality, shoot-ability, reliability and accuracy as:
1. Daystate (.22 Air Wolf, .20 Huntsman Regal, .177 Mark 4)
2. Steyr (.22 H5 Hunter)
3. American Air Arms (.30 Evol Paradigm)
4. Air Arms (.22 S510 Carbine)
5. BSA (.177 R10)
6. FX (.25. .22 .177 Crown Mk2)

These are all so close in quality you can't go wrong with any of these. They are all beautiful rifles with that built in pride of ownership. Gorgeous wood.

Bedrock Bob · Aug 14, 2024

boscoebrea said:
I always get more for my money,I study,I have time, never rush, and read all I can about what I Think I want..I then buy used,yes indeed I know the good prices and when something comes I want I bid on it or buy it outright.
you sure do not have to spend over $1000 for a great PCP.used...or get a new one .My point is study and learn by yourself First,then you are better prepared to ask pointed questions about what you think you may want....
.22 rimfires are way easier to shoot and shoot good than air rifles, um maybe not... they are separate but equal.I like both,but air guns are kooler,

Airguns bridge the gap between a powderburner and a BB gun. That's a cool spot to be. It expands shooting opportunities a lot. Many of the obstacles to shooting a firearm have been sidestepped.

The farther they reach into powderburner territory the less appealing they are to me. Especially for hunting. I can't think of anything I want to shoot with an air rifle I can't shoot with my springer.

I love the designs and the technology. I recognize the extreme range and accuracy. I appreciate the build quality and the machine work. I just don't know what I'd use a high end PCP for.

I have a neurological disorder that forces me to shoot daily. If I switch to PCP it might cause seizures or something. It's like freebasing a springer. A poor airgun decision could seriously impact my life.

Still I go every day to the AOA website and look at the Daystate Huntsman. My finger hovers over the "buy now" button for several seconds before I talk myself down.

I could shoot that rascal. I want one bad.

cavedweller · Aug 15, 2024

graycrait said:
Old NOOB here,

I was taking one last look at my CZ 457 Pro Varmint which I am trading for an FX Streamline. For what I use an air rifle for the Streamline seems a fair trade. However, I have been looking at BRK and Daystate prices and wonder what makes these so expensive? Do you never need to change O-rings? Are they more accurate than powder burner Bench Rest rifles? Where does the perceived value come from for these >$3K air rifles. Or in what competition among experienced shooters do these expensive air rifles beat the "cheaper" competition. I'm not criticizing but am interested in understanding the value between a $1200 air rifle vs a +$3k air rifle. Will the squirrel be able to tell the difference? Or will ranking at some "national" shooting event tell the tale?

engineering, factory and facility, CAD's, Heating and cooling, computers, payroll and employee benefits pkgs, liability and real estate insurance, shareholders, shipping, raw materials, retail packaging = just the tip of the iceberg.
To design, create and bring a product to market and still make a fair profit in order to stay in business is not an easy or cheap process.

forrest342 · Aug 15, 2024

graycrait said:
I spent nearly 30 yrs carrying a gun for a living in various countries. I even did contract security for the Feds in my old age. I used to live and breathe "guns." But one day I got tired of all the nonsense. Because shooting is one of my things, along with a number of other sports including having shot various traditional bows I am trying to sort out air guns in my old age. If I need a +$3K air gun I can get one, but I have not been convinced. It is sort of like moving from a $1000 .22lr to a Vudoo but then for true accuracy one probably needs a .22lr made with a Stiller 2500X or Turbo V action and likely a select Mueller barrel with a B&A trigger. Oddly I am pretty sure the squirrel graveyard is chock full of tree rats expired by $160.00 old Marlin Model 60s.

Stubbers said:
Strong bias towards 'you get what you pay for' mentality. I'd like to show you exhibit A, the CyberTruck...and I could easily make a few airgun references that fall in line with that blunder when comparing market value disparity and faster than expected depreciation vs the intended appreciation or at least retention in value...

A few features on an airgun doesn't necessarily add 50% of the value, value is perceived, and rarely often retained over time with any depreciating asset, which airguns are...

I've handled $2,000 guns and have never said, wow, now I get it...and went off and bought a handful of $2,000 airguns. Money is non-issue...these are pellet guns and I understand their principles enough to know what I am, and what I am not getting, and imo (perceived), I am not getting $2,400 value out of the new fx impact m4...You should see how filled the comment section of the gk1 videos on youtube are with disgust on the price. Sure they sell a bunch at the current price, but there are more they DON'T sell because of that price...by a much wider margin. Does that mean that the majority that perceive it as over-priced are right about its value, or those that buy it are...well really to be technical both are right and both are wrong, in either persons mind...so that is that.

-Matt

Of course value is subjective and perceived. That’s was my point.

An impact ain’t worth 200 much less 2000 to a man happy shooting squirrels with a rusty rimfire.

Florida_Man · Aug 15, 2024

HogKiller said:
I think that you underestimate the Maverick but I'm a touch biased, mine work very well......now.

Yeah, some people love them and they work great for them. On mine I would use my right index and middle finger to pull the cocking arm and rest my thumb on the bar of the cocking arm. I would use a SST. I had to stop this because the sharp edge of the cocking arm cut the skin on the pad of my thumb. The first time it happened I didn't know how I cut my finger, the next bench session I discovered how it happened. Just a small thing, but it the finishing of a product. The cocking feel was more like my P35 then my Revere/Concept.
Just a couple observations from my time with it. I don't think it was junk, it would have been fine as a hunting rifle. But from my experience, it was about $500 dollars over priced compared to the rifles that I have owned in the same price bracket.

357cal · Aug 15, 2024

I believe it's technology that's advancing the rifles. They're shooting farther with greater accuracy. However, as a hunter who doesn't target birds, the type of hunting I engage in—coyote hunting—my AEA 357 and 308 Texan are perfect for the task. Both are capable of taking down prey at 150 yards at night, which is quite a distance in an area with dense woods and farms. How many rifles priced at $2,000 can deliver 340 fpe in 35 cal stock? Aea 357 big bore $600, In 2-3 years, I've only had to replace one o-ring, despite numerous outings and shooting sessions with absolutely no issues with the Texan. As a hunter, I can't justify spending that much—that's just my perspective.

357cal · Aug 15, 2024

L.Leon said:
Really?! So “now” it’s about going “viral”? I “am” a BRK “fan man” through use… That said, my Artemis pp700sa killed more rats than all my BRKs. So what? Once I stepped up to the BRK quality level, I never looked back. And the targeted pest? They simply die, if properly shot with “any” platform.

Coyotes are just as dead with my aea 357 and at least 40 fpe more for 600$. Texan 308 300fpe around $1200, But to each is own. It's not the rifle that makes a great shooter. It's the shooter that practices whatever it is. I have seen a bolt action rifle in the right hands can be very fast and very accurate compared to a m-16 in semi because of practice.

357cal · Aug 15, 2024

357cal said:
Coyotes are just as dead with my aea 357 and at least 40 fpe more for 600$. Texan 308 300fpe around $1200, But to each is own. It's not the rifle that makes a great shooter. It's the shooter that practices whatever it is. I have seen a bolt action rifle in the right hands can be very fast and very accurate compared to a m-16 in semi because of practice.

Stubbers · Aug 15, 2024

forrest342 said:
Of course value is subjective and perceived. That’s was my point.

An impact ain’t worth 200 much less 2000 to a man happy shooting squirrels with a rusty rimfire.

"But is it worth $3000? Hell yes! Some people live and breathe this stuff. Nobody buys a $3000 Airgun to shoot tin cans at 10 yards. Most of these people are either super passionate about the hobby and want to push the limits of what’s possible."

You made an objective point here, not subjective...I could add more quotes that prove you were objectively saying market value is based on x,y,z and is worth the cost. Also some people do buy $3000 airguns to shoot tin cans 10-20 yards away, 'nobody' is an extreme take..

-Matt

Bedrock Bob · Aug 15, 2024

Still for your horsepower dollar you can't beat a $700 Remington, Savage or Howa rifle. No you can't shoot them everywhere. But they are MUCH more suited to the larger game you guys are hunting with air rifles.

Yes you can briing down hogs and deer with a huge air rifle... if you make a perfect head shot. As a hunter I know how hard this is to do. It only works at certain angles in the perfect situation and only if you know the animals physiology well. Head shots are MUCH more likely to be a bad shot than a chest shot using an appropriate gun. Most professional hunters consider headshots unethical. Too many animals wind up wounded. A game officer that tried put down an animal with a head shot would be disciplined.

Thems the facts boys. Air rifles are cool and can be used to kill most anything. But whether they are the appropriate tool for taking larger game is debatable.

I can bring down an elk with a .22 rimfire. But is it an ethical way to hunt? No. I can bring down a moose with a .223. Same deal. Shooting animals with a rifle that requires a perfect shot to the brain is a poor idea.

When hunting anything the idea is not an immediate kill. It is stopping the animal so it can be killed. That can only be done with a rifle capable of incapacitating the animal with a single shot to the shoulder or chest. That's how game animals are killed.

You just can't effectively hunt larger animals with an air rifle. If you miss a head shot, even a little it won't kill or bring down the animal. A properly placed shot (shoulder or chest) with an appropriate rifle will bring the animal down EVERY TIME.

Instant kills are a fantasy. This rarely ever happens when hunting big game. The objective is NOT an instant kill. It is stopping the animal and putting it on the ground.

Headhunters loose lots of big game and wound lots of animals no matter what rifle they shoot. Using a rifle that is ONLY capable of killing with a perfect shot is just not the way to go.

Just my two cents. I've been at this game for 50 years. I've shot every animal you can think of and a few you can't. I've guided professionally and hunted professionally. There isn't much I haven't seen in the field. Air rifles are excellent tools for what they are good for. But a true hunter knows when he is running out of gun. If you are limited to perfect head shots to recover an animal you are south of that point by a mile.

Trucker3573 · Aug 15, 2024

Lots of things that are considered but ultimately the market dictates the value. Isn’t that how it’s supposed to work. Companies wouldn’t make it if they couldn’t make money and there was no market for the item. People wouldn’t pay it if it were in fact to “expensive “.

Trucker3573 · Aug 15, 2024

Bedrock Bob said:
Still for your horsepower dollar you can't beat a $700 Remington, Savage or Howa rifle. No you can't shoot them everywhere. But they are MUCH more suited to the larger game you guys are hunting with air rifles.

Yes you can briing down hogs and deer with a huge air rifle... if you make a perfect head shot. As a hunter I know how hard this is to do. It only works at certain angles in the perfect situation and only if you know the animals physiology well. Head shots are MUCH more likely to be a bad shot than a chest shot using an appropriate gun. Most professional hunters consider headshots unethical. Too many animals wind up wounded. A game officer that tried put down an animal with a head shot would be disciplined.

Thems the facts boys. Air rifles are cool and can be used to kill most anything. But whether they are the appropriate tool for taking larger game is debatable.

I can bring down an elk with a .22 rimfire. But is it an ethical way to hunt? No. I can bring down a moose with a .223. Same deal. Shooting animals with a rifle that requires a perfect shot to the brain is a poor idea.

When hunting anything the idea is not an immediate kill. It is stopping the animal so it can be killed. That can only be done with a rifle capable of incapacitating the animal with a single shot to the shoulder or chest. That's how game animals are killed.

You just can't effectively hunt larger animals with an air rifle. If you miss a head shot, even a little it won't kill or bring down the animal. A properly placed shot (shoulder or chest) with an appropriate rifle will bring the animal down EVERY TIME.

Instant kills are a fantasy. This rarely ever happens when hunting big game. The objective is NOT an instant kill. It is stopping the animal and putting it on the ground.

Headhunters loose lots of big game and wound lots of animals no matter what rifle they shoot. Using a rifle that is ONLY capable of killing with a perfect shot is just not the way to go.

Just my two cents. I've been at this game for 50 years. I've shot every animal you can think of and a few you can't. I've guided professionally and hunted professionally. There isn't much I haven't seen in the field. Air rifles are excellent tools for what they are good for. But a true hunter knows when he is running out of gun. If you are limited to perfect head shots to recover an animal you are south of that point by a mile.

Lots of big bores that can easily take deer and pigs without a head shot. Headshots being required is just a strange phenomenon automatically stamped on everything in this community. Airguns also totally redefine what “loud” is. Also something I have always found strange.

Bedrock Bob · Aug 15, 2024

Trucker3573 said:
Lots of big bores that can easily take deer and pigs without a head shot. Headshots being required is just a strange phenomenon automatically stamped on everything in this community. Airguns also totally redefine what “loud” is. Also something I have always found strange.

I disagree. No airgun provides the shock needed to kill a hog or big deer effectively with a lung shot at any range. Nether will they effectively break bone. The projectiles and velocity just aren't enough to create the shock. Anyone who understands how a bullet works recognizes this.

It's just a fantasy that guys chase. A bad shot with an airgun is a lost animal. Period. And anyone who has taken larger game with an airgun knows that.

Guys want to believe they have some power in their hands. In my experience they always overestimate. Even when shooting a 7mm mag. Experience has taught me that. This is a textbook case.

Coinwa · Aug 15, 2024

Bedrock Bob said:
I disagree. No airgun provides the shock needed to kill a hog or big deer effectively with a lung shot at any range. Nether will they effectively break bone. The projectiles and velocity just aren't enough to create the shock. Anyone who understands how a bullet works recognizes this.

It's just a fantasy that guys chase. A bad shot with an airgun is a lost animal. Period. And anyone who has taken larger game with an airgun knows that.

Guys want to believe they have some power in their hands. In my experience they always overestimate. Even when shooting a 7mm mag. Experience has taught me that. This is a textbook case.

Bows are less “powerful” than many of the big air rifles folks are shooting at deer.

Don’t believe me? Do the math.

Somehow they kill stuff incredibly effectively.

Shock does not kill animals…. Holes in vital organs kill animals.

A .50 cal hole through both lungs is certain, and quick, death.

Motorhead · Aug 15, 2024

Only experienced one place on an animals body when SHOT that produces a DRT result ... That being when animal is facing away from shooter and shot is placed at upper neck to skull intersect.
If you can accurately place your shot there ( Even way under caliber for the animals size/weight ) they will drop like a stone !!!

But said, not a shot one gets to make very often, so not realistic to do in actual hunting conditions.

Other Why so expensive?

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