On The Nofos the first thing I did was throw away the original magazine and order a Carm. I already knew but the rest of the gun is stellar
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When I buy a gun it’s almost always defective- MANUFACTURERS PAY ATTENTION
- Thread starter PasadenaMike
- Start date
I found that it's not just Guns, It's everything these days, just poor quality parts and workman ship on everything practically, I guess finding good workers is like winning the lottery, but keeping them is a whole other story, look at the car industry, nothing but junk, and they want big $$$$$$$ for junk, it's a good thing to know how to fix the defective stuff they sell us, that's why I always buy the fixers, get it cheap and fix it myself for pennies......
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Again please don’t look at this as manufacturer bashing look at it as constructive criticism to better products and happier customers.
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I absolutely agree. The gun is just a thing it’s the care that goes into it that matters and that’s what is lackingI found that it's not just Guns, It's everything these days, just poor quality parts and workman ship on everything practically, I guess finding good workers is like winning the lottery, but keeping them is a whole other story, look at the car industry, nothing but junk, and they want big $$$$$$$ for junk, it's a good thing to know how to fix the defective stuff they sell us, that's why I always buy the fixers, get it cheap and fix it myself for pennies......
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My first PCP was a Marauder Pistol I bought in 2020. It still is working well. I've had it apart tuning it but no repairs have been needed. My second was an early Avenger. It leaked from day one. I had to pay to ship it to Air Venturi but they fixed it and paid to ship it back. It has required no more repairs but I don't shoot it a lot. Too long. My third was a SPA P35 in 25 caliber. It is leaking right now but worked great until I started messing with it. I don't think I hurt it but the regulator is internal and you have to open the air tube to set it and sometimes I damage an O-ring in that process. I suspect that is the current issue. My P35s in 22 and 177 haven't required repairs and I've changed the regulator in the 177 but not the 22. I consider the P35 reliability to be very good. My last PCP was purchased earlier this year. It is a Air Maks Caiman X. It is a nice gun and noticably better machined than my other guns. But it arrived with a regulator that did not vent properly between shots (which produces a declining shot curve) and a Huma regulator with way to much lube on the belleville washers and seemingly none on the O-ring for the inlet valve (so the regulator failed after a few hundred shots and did not work at all). I fixed all that with some email help from Utah airguns and it is fine now. ES for the last two 20+ shot strings was 8 and it does not fall regardless of how many shots I fire or how high I fill it. But this was a bit annoying considering I paid almost 3 times as much as my other guns and the issue seems to be a design issue. It is not hard to fix but it would be even easier for Air Maks to eliminate the problem. I hope Utah Air is telling Air Maks to fix this but I am not confident based upon my interactions with them that they recognize the issue either.
My sample size is small but my biggest issues were with my most expensive airgun. I suspect others are better and even other Air Maks airguns are better. But my much less expensive airguns have been mostly without issue. I will probably try another more expensive gun or two but not because I expect them to arrive in better condition. I will be happy if they arrive in as good a shape as my less expensive ones. I'm also unsure that buying from somebody who will "test" them first is worthwhile. My Caiman did not leak but they missed the declining velocity with more shots and the accuracy target did not provide the distance so I'm guessing it was 10 yards. Not much value in that. I waited about 4 days for shipment so they could do the checks, I think. That wait is not terrible but I wish the check was more through. Utah was slow to respond when I gave them data on the declining shot curve and seemed firmly of the opinion that they and not I should work on the gun but they still helped me significantly. I think they are fine. They cannot be expected to repair every Caiman they sell. Air Maks needs to address the issue.
My sample size is small but my biggest issues were with my most expensive airgun. I suspect others are better and even other Air Maks airguns are better. But my much less expensive airguns have been mostly without issue. I will probably try another more expensive gun or two but not because I expect them to arrive in better condition. I will be happy if they arrive in as good a shape as my less expensive ones. I'm also unsure that buying from somebody who will "test" them first is worthwhile. My Caiman did not leak but they missed the declining velocity with more shots and the accuracy target did not provide the distance so I'm guessing it was 10 yards. Not much value in that. I waited about 4 days for shipment so they could do the checks, I think. That wait is not terrible but I wish the check was more through. Utah was slow to respond when I gave them data on the declining shot curve and seemed firmly of the opinion that they and not I should work on the gun but they still helped me significantly. I think they are fine. They cannot be expected to repair every Caiman they sell. Air Maks needs to address the issue.
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The only air rifle I have bought that came charged and ready to shoot with no leaks (Gamo Urban and Umarex and Avenger), scratches covered up with Magic Marker (Umarex) and with a test target proving life was my Benjamin Marauder.
There are three shots there.
There are three shots there.
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Stupidest thing dealers charging for basic things like filling, leak test and shoot the gun for function. When I buy a new car they don’t give me the car and say good luck
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I guess I'm not alone. In the last 2 years I've had to return 6 guns that were defective in one way or another right out of the box or within a couple of dozen shots.
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The first time I did the 10 shot test was the last, because they ran the pellets through the chrony but didn't perform a group test with said shots. So I paid 10 dollars for an fps spread to find out on my end that it was grouping like 2 inches at 25yds with the best pellets.
I did, I'm gonna put an order today.
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I don't consider it "Bashing the Manufacturer" when I am sold a Product that is faulty. They made it, they took MY money. It's up to them to make sure that the item does what they told Me it would when they sold it to me.
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Just a couple comments on this thread.
1) When the conversation turns to airgun dependability my all-purpose, all-encompassing, all-KNOWING response is, "Hey, they're AIR guns. Any of them can fail at any time, for any reason... or no reason whatsoever!"
2) Ask me why I never wanted to go into the airgun biusiness.
3) (I lied; THREE comments.) On second thought, don't ask me why I never wanted to go into the airgun biusiness. Just see #1 above.
1) When the conversation turns to airgun dependability my all-purpose, all-encompassing, all-KNOWING response is, "Hey, they're AIR guns. Any of them can fail at any time, for any reason... or no reason whatsoever!"
2) Ask me why I never wanted to go into the airgun biusiness.
3) (I lied; THREE comments.) On second thought, don't ask me why I never wanted to go into the airgun biusiness. Just see #1 above.
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Ive got 5 or 6 factory mags for my Notos and haven't had a problem with any of them except screw came loose in one which I tightned.Not sure why but I forgot to mention the notos since just getting one uesterday and it shoot phenominally with the Jts 18.8gr wadcutters, crosman 14.3gr, and the polymags! But that's without the magfound out the hard way that the mag picks and chooses when it wanta to feed the pellets corrently and when it wants to shove them in sideways, what gives? I had to stop by an Ace and buy a brass rod to tap it out.
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Ive got 2 maple mags bought new which one wouldnt feed at all, seller immediately issued a refund for that mag..
My accuracy with the factory mags is the same as using the single shot loader, excellent. Just goes to show everyone has different experiences with same makes/models.
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I dunno I’ve been buying RAWs that were built by Martin and that works really well. I don’t see myself buying any more FX or other big brand airguns with doodads and adjustments galore. Things just never seem to get better in the owners hands.
I like the *idea* of an airgun reseller who checks out everything before it ships and with a mechanically simple gun like a springer it seems entirely reasonable. With PCPs I’m not as sure about that business model anymore.
KISAIBR principle. Keep it simple and it’ll be reliable.
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There’s absolutely no excuse when Crosman was able to build $40 gun (1322, 1377) and have no issues. Sure it wasn’t a pcp but they just work
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We as buyers need to reward companies that do things well and not go spreading our money on new designs and new brands that may not end up working. Right now our buying habits punish a manufacturer or vendor for long term thinking like proven designs and good people and high quality. A vendor is not going to pay their people well and focus on quality if we the public aren’t willing to wait for things sometimes and if we are going to change our minds as soon as the next new thing comes out.I found that it's not just Guns, It's everything these days, just poor quality parts and workman ship on everything practically, I guess finding good workers is like winning the lottery, but keeping them is a whole other story, look at the car industry, nothing but junk, and they want big $$$$$$$ for junk, it's a good thing to know how to fix the defective stuff they sell us, that's why I always buy the fixers, get it cheap and fix it myself for pennies......
Do we want “truly innovative” equipment? Sometimes, yes. But most of the time, not at the price required to also maintain excellent quality. We buy with our hearts not our brains, and our brains complain later about the lack of quality.
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Just wait until Crosmans are made in the Daisy factory without the processes and tribal knowledge to achieve it.
(I have no inside knowledge of these companies and how they do or don’t document things and maintain their quality systems, but I can say they almost never improve when a big move occurs.)
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