Kral Arms This is for unregulated gun haters

Vetmx said:

We were taking a break at the shop today and started talking about the shop gun and how long has it been since we shot it. The conversation started because a new guy asked what was in that case behind the cylinder machine. My buddy insisted it was last year when we each took a crow with it. So I dug it out of the case. The gauge read just under its max fill pressure and the mag still had 8 left in it. I walked out to the dumpster and drew a picture while my buddy set up for a 50 yard shot. That’s where we have it zeroed. First shot was spot on and full power.

I‘m not saying a regulated PCP can’t sit for a year and still be spot on at 50 yards and deliver a full power shot. What I am saying is one without a reg will.

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Is that an Akela? They're wonderfully reliable guns.

Looks to be a Kral Empire version.

Vetmx said:

This is how it was originally spending its life. The first guy in the shop got it out of its case and set it by the door. But we’ve been so busy since last August so it been neglected. Crazy to think when I bought the gun I fully intended to regulate it if I wasn’t happy with what I could extract out of it unregulated. Thankfully Troy Hammer convinced me otherwise.

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I like my empire xs - need to shoot it more.

No hate here. I have both regulated and unregulated. They both have their uses.

If I needed a truck gun - grab out of truck and immediately shoot at pests, then I’d lean towards unregulated for 1st shot reliability.

If I needed a target rifle - where I expect to shoot multiple sighters before shooting the scoring targets, then I’d lean towards regulated for shot-to-shot velocity consistency.

Of course, I’m just offering an opinion on general use cases - there will be great shooting unregulated target rifles… and there will be regulated rifles with rock stable regulators/plenum pressure.

I'm not 100% sure yet but I think that having a reliable first shot on a regulated gun is a question of tuning. It could also be a gun thing, however. My P35-22 is consistent and reliable with it's first shot. I shoot 30 yard challenge targets fairly often and I usually do not do any sight in or wasting of shots before starting the target for score. I've shot a 200 with this gun doing that. Pellets straight from the tin too.

My P35-177 is not this reliable, however. It often is fine but sometimes the first shot will be 1/4 inch off at 30 yards. Might still hit a crow but doesn't work well on a target. I have the hammer spring turned down from the peak I can get at it's regulator setting more than the 22 is. I'm thinking I may turn the regulator down slightly so I don't have to decrease the hammer spring as much from the peak. If my theory is right that will help it's first shot. My Caiman X is like the P35-177. First shot is in the same range as the rest of a 20 shot string but still the first shot may be off on point of impact. A little. I'm not sure that one is tuning but I may still try a lower regulator setting.

I agree that unregulated guns have advantages. But for target work it is really nice to have a long string of shots at almost exactly the same velocity. But I've used my Prod on 30 yard challenge targets too. No 200s but it was well over 190. Had to hold a little high at the start and end of the string, however.

Vetmx said:

Kral Empire XS .22

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Nice! I wanted one in .177 back when they were in stock, but I was weary of Krale and read/saw plenty of them had issues that had to get sorted once in your hands.

Unregulated guns are a fantastic choice for the people who don't want/need one ragged hole from a fill. The inconsistency across mags can definitely make plinking a bit more fun.

What I have noticed is that in My backyard i can sight the light weight pellets in, and then just change the aiming spot. Top, Middle, Bottom of Spot. I won't win any matches, but when you do get a few "Bragging Groups" it puts a Smile on My face! lol NonReg Gun

Chief Ten-Beers said:

What I have noticed is that in My backyard i can sight the light weight pellets in, and then just change the aiming spot. Top, Middle, Bottom of Spot. I won't win any matches, but when you do get a few "Bragging Groups" it puts a Smile on My face! lol NonReg Gun

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That's how it was with my Akela, I ended up selling it a few minths ofter getting the compact impact mk2 and got into the slug craze.

I miss the akela, with pellets it could do EVERYTHING the impact can but with pellets. I learned that gun like the back of my hand and I could land eye shots out to 70 yards without a hiccup. At 35yds my akela would produce .27" groups and my beat groups out if it were .21" and .22"

I figured I’d show some real world “regulated vs. unregulated” with my Daystate Huntsman Regal .22

I bought it new unregulated from AoA.

I have a HUMA reg and FAC plenum that I’ve had in and out of the rifle at least 8 times, lol.

With the reg in, at 890fps power level with 15.89g, the best I could get was about 35 shots on reg - Daystate website reports 39 shots. But it falls of the reg gradually with the slingshot hammer and harper valve.

Here are shot strings of unregulated with 15.89g and 18.13g. Also shown are regulated shot strings where I dialed down the power - in an attempt to try to get to a shot count of 55 to 60 while still making 20+ ft lbs.

Also shown are 30-Yard precision targets that were shot unregulated. The 10-ring is .125” in diameter.

I’m currently back to running it unregulated, but plan to put the reg back in and tune for 45-50 shots - likely around 24-25 ft lbs.

This data shows that you can achieve high accuracy with an unregulated rifle. It also shows that adding a reg can give you a nice flat shot string, but likely at a lower power level. This is more true for a “tube” regulator, due to the regulator taking up air cylinder space - impacting overall air volume and shot count.

I love my unregulated rifles (I have 5) and my learnings from my Huntsman experimentation has me only considering regulators for 2 of them.

Regulated versus not-regulated is not a deal breaker for me.

First PCP was a Benjamin Discovery. Tiny little air tube but it was good for 20-22 shots of about 18fpe each. 1900-1100 psi. Unregulated.

My USFT gets 40ish shots at 915fps with .177/10.34s with s fill pressure from 1550-1250psi. It's s good as anything for field target, and better than many. Unregulated.

Crosman 1720t is good for about 30 shots, only at 8.5fpe. Placed with it in the AZ state FT match last year, 2nd or 3rd place, can't remember. Also unregulated.

Recently picked up a Condor. Also good for 40 shots, but about 30fpe each, using the .20/15.89 and a fill pressure from 1800-1400psi. Unregulated.

Don't have any plans of sticking s regulator in any of them. Figure out the fill/refill pressures and extreme spreads over the string will be tight enough to win ft matches and kill a lot of pests.

For first shot dependability I like em unregulated. But I think the bigger reason I like an unregulated airgun is how much easier it is to keep them fed. Whether yoyur filling from a hand pump or with tanks/compressors, low fill pressures are just easier.

I have no problem stacking them with these 2 unregulated old guys.

My most accurate gun is still my kral 25 cal 16" barreled jumbo. One ragged hole at 50 yards doing my part off a bipod no rear bag. No regulator, just tuned about perfect with a dual spring and porting. Shooting 34s at 825-830, yeah 5 fps spread on unregulated gun. Shoots the 25.4s around 950 and they will give me 3/4" groups out to 75 yards.

I sold it once, and the buyer returned it for a small leak where I had repaired the burst disc port. I'm so glad it started leaking, because now that I have it back it will never leave me again.

I had a Niksan unregulated .22 and it seemed to hit crazy hard on about the 1st 10 shots compared ro my Daystates. I never had a way to measure FPE but you could tell.