I think i have been wasting my time with JTS

Rizz01 said:

Untrue. Lead, tin and antimony are far softer than the carbon steel the barrel is made of. Softer pellet alloys lead the barrel faster and necessitate cleaning more frequently.

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I phrased my comment rather poorly, so let me try again.

I realize a softer lead will lead the barrel faster, but the comments I’ve seen are that the cheaper pellets w/ harder alloys tend to leave behind deposits that are harder to remove, which has a net effect of increased leading overtime. You “clean” the barrel, but you don’t actually remove as much buildup as you think you do. Then you go shoot a few tins, repeat, and you basically add more and more buildup because you remove less with each cleaning compared to softer pellets. Make sense? That’s more the angle I was coming from. Think of it as copper deposits or a carbon ring in PBs. I don’t see many folks using a cleaning rod w/ brushes for air rifles, so I assume a deep clean with them would wear a barrel out faster. So it’s not the pellet itself doing the wear, but the more vigorous cleaning needed to remove the harder alloys that’s wearing them. Or so I’ve heard. I’d be super happy to be wrong here, as the price and results I’m seeing for JTS/AEA are indeed attractive!

As for the barrels, I confess that coming from the world of PBs, my mind keeps thinking the steel used in a pellet rifle is of a lower quality than that used in PBs. I *know* that isn’t true, but my subconscious doesn’t believe that yet lol. Cognitive dissonance sucks, but I’ll work it out soon enough.

Supposedly JTS and AEA come from the same factory in China. This factory is said to be making the highest quality pellets in China. I have not personally verified if they are both made in the same factory.
Also, I have not tried AEA pellets yet. I haven't looked but I'd like to find a retailer that sells them besides TPS.

Basher said:

I phrased my comment rather poorly, so let me try again.

I realize a softer lead will lead the barrel faster, but the comments I’ve seen are that the cheaper pellets w/ harder alloys tend to leave behind deposits that are harder to remove, which has a net effect of increased leading overtime. You “clean” the barrel, but you don’t actually remove as much buildup as you think you do. Then you go shoot a few tins, repeat, and you basically add more and more buildup because you remove less with each cleaning compared to softer pellets. Make sense? That’s more the angle I was coming from. Think of it as copper deposits or a carbon ring in PBs. I don’t see many folks using a cleaning rod w/ brushes for air rifles, so I assume a deep clean with them would wear a barrel out faster. So it’s not the pellet itself doing the wear, but the more vigorous cleaning needed to remove the harder alloys that’s wearing them. Or so I’ve heard. I’d be super happy to be wrong here, as the price and results I’m seeing for JTS/AEA are indeed attractive!

As for the barrels, I confess that coming from the world of PBs, my mind keeps thinking the steel used in a pellet rifle is of a lower quality than that used in PBs. I *know* that isn’t true, but my subconscious doesn’t believe that yet lol. Cognitive dissonance sucks, but I’ll work it out soon enough.

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I'm doing over 1000 pellets per week and my accuracy is spot on in all my guns.
Accuracy issues and cleaning are more abundant with the softer JSB pellets.
The last 1200 JSB pellets were horrible. They left fragments and heavy deposits in the barrel. The experience thoroughly reminded me as to why I avoid buying them.

Rizz01 said:

Uh, no....
Dies and QC are NOT the same..
Easy to see when you buy the different pellet brands that come out of that factory.
I have spoken with a couple of competition shooters and they have verified this.

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No, they are the same pellets, "competition shooters" is meaningless, factory reps and laser 3D scanning tells the tail.

Shooters are told what the sponsor wants them to know, many have to sign non-competition and non-disclosure agreements.

Firewalker said:

No, they are the same pellets, "competition shooters" is meaningless, factory reps and laser 3D scanning tells the tail.

Shooters are told what the sponsor wants them to know, many have to sign non-competition and non-disclosure agreements.

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Dunno, Sir. I have tins of JSB and Rangemaster. COMPLETELY different. But they come out of the same factory.
Snap-on and Kobalt ratchets are made in the same factory.
Just because they are made in the same factory doesn't mean they are manufactured on the same line or to the same standards.

Pellet on the left Rangemaster
Pellet on the right JSB
Skirt on JSB obviously thinner.
Rangemaster is cleaner.
Rangemaster has deeper recess.
Rangemasters are far closer in weight than JSB.

Rizz01 said:

Dunno, Sir. I have tins of JSB and Rangemaster. COMPLETELY different. But they come out of the same factory.
Snap-on and Kobalt ratchets are made in the same factory.
Just because they are made in the same factory doesn't mean they are manufactured on the same line or to the same standards.

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Im VERY sorry, I had commented on AEA and JTS pellets, not JSB.

Before you spend any more time with the scale I suggest you shoot the lightest and heaviest at side by side alternating each shot. After 10 or 20 of each it should be clear if there is any point in continuing.

Sorting is always technically helping. But figuring out which metrics to sort for is the real trick.

Rizz01 said:

I'm doing over 1000 pellets per week and my accuracy is spot on in all my guns.
Accuracy issues and cleaning are more abundant with the softer JSB pellets.
The last 1200 JSB pellets were horrible. They left fragments and heavy deposits in the barrel. The experience thoroughly reminded me as to why I avoid buying them.

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Were these pellets washed? Seems relevant to that specific problem.

Firewalker said:

Same pellets and QA, different labels.

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I'm not so sure about that. I've had both JTS and AEA and they are clearly NOT the same pellets.

Please provide proof of your statement.

Firewalker said:

Im VERY sorry, I had commented on AEA and JTS pellets, not JSB.

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It's okay, Sir! I have not lost any love for you at all!

manabeknives said:

Ahh..i see what you are saying,
I also heard that the AEA/JTS required more cleaning after use, but i have yet to notice any differences.
I do keep a clean barrel.
I do polish and wax the bores on my rifles as described by @Motorhead, i believe that has a positive effect on reducing the build up
i do not believe a proper cleaning/polishing/waxing is wearing out the bore unless it is done improperly with the wrong tools

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Uh, actually there is less cleaning to be done with AEA or JTS.
I can go 700-800 shots before my accuracy drops off with JTS.
I get 400-500 with JSB.
Can't speak on AEA, never tried them.
Gotta do a search real soon to find them.

dgeesaman said:

Were these pellets washed? Seems relevant to that specific problem.

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No, they weren't washed.
My personal issue is that I don't want to spend time washing and sorting when I can purchase pellets that don't need it.
I'm willing to pay more for this but JTS is making it easy since their price is lower.

An acquaintance of mine came over to shoot and brought his Avenge-X along with JSB pellets. He asked to try the JTS and luckily they worked much better in his gun. Needless to say, he shot most of my stash and vowed to never buy anything but JTS for that gun.

My point is not to get everyone to shoot JTS. It's that the industry has promoted JSB for so long and some folks believe there isn't anything better. If Apolo pellets work well for someone, that's great. Doesn't matter that they are inexpensive as long as the end result is favorable.

ctshooter said:

I'm not so sure about that. I've had both JTS and AEA and they are clearly NOT the same pellets.

Please provide proof of your statement.

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Indeed, they are, at least the 18.1gr.

I shot the 25.4 AEA, JTS and JSB variants out of my Thomas HPX this morning. The JSBs crono a consistent 975 with a 1.3 SD over 50 shots. The JTS and AEA had a very wide spread from 930 - 960 with a 2” lower POI at 100Y. The JSBs are more accurate on average, at least from this rifle.

igolfat8 said:

I shot the 25.4 AEA, JTS and JSB variants out of my Thomas HPX this morning. The JSBs crono a consistent 975 with a 1.3 SD over 50 shots. The JTS and AEA had a very wide spread from 930 - 960 with a 2” lower POI at 100Y. The JSBs are more accurate on average, at least from this rifle.

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Fun thing about these threads: it reinforces more and more the fact that every gun is unique lol. I enjoy the process of finding out what each likes, but holy moly my wallet does not.

Rizz01 said:

Uh, actually there is less cleaning to be done with AEA or JTS.
I can go 700-800 shots before my accuracy drops off with JTS.
I get 400-500 with JSB.
Can't speak on AEA, never tried them.
Gotta do a search real soon to find them.

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i would say that i shoot around the same amount of jts pellets before even considering cleaning. i usually just wait until i see the pellets start a wide spiral before knowing i need to clean my barrel

When I bought my epoch it came with a few tins of jts pellets in the various .25 cal weights. That gun seems to like the jts over the jsb for sure. Especially likes the jts 29 gr.