.177 Hades. Hero to Zero

JaceSpace1369 said:

You could say the same thing about H&N, Norma, Gamo, and Benjamin.

Also JTS is it's own brand and has been an established company since 1992. Sure they may be newish to the airgun game in comparison. But all companies take something from each other. JTS and AEA have similar sized pellets and shapes but the metal in them is different as well as how clean they are in comparison, how much thicker they are, and how deep the skirts sit.

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I get what you're saying. Certainly companies will feed off each other's innovations. This is a good thing for the community. But I also think there is a line that was crossed with their first releases and still some of their current offerings. Big difference between innovating off of another companies own innovations, and making a clone.

And while the company Xisico which own JTS was established in 1992, the didn't start using the JTS trademark until 2016.

Stubbers said:

My latest order of 15.89 jsb .22 shoot exceptionally well

My latest order of 7.3 gr jsb .177 shoot exceptionally well too.

Likewise, the 10gr JSB Hades are...again shooting amazingly well.

I have yet to experience the "Sky is falling" effect for JSB pellets as of yet...however JTS/AEA are amazing contenders that have knocked JSB off the pedestal which the community has held them at for so long.

-Matt

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Where did you get yours?

I'm not denigrating the supplier. Not their fault. Mine came in fantastic shape. I got mine all from ThePelletShop. The guns In question have been feed almost solely JSB and fx 15.89s until this last purchase. Over and over again. I tried velocity, I tried dwell, lowered pressure, raised pressure, checked barrel grubs, cleaned barrel, examined breech rings, examined crowns. Swapped liners and barrels.... 2 tins of JSB branded JSB exact jumbo and one of Hades are just all over the place. I even swapped scopes to make sure. Never before have I experienced this with a JSB pellet. H&N and Benjamin. Yes. But not JSB. This Friday is my payday and typical bulk order day. I'm gonna order from trenier this time and see if it's just an unlucky load.

Sorry. I don't mean to denigrate you TPS, I love you. This is on predator, your pellets always arrive perfect TPS

Spartan said:

I get what you're saying. Certainly companies will feed off each other's innovations. This is a good thing for the community. But I also think there is a line that was crossed with their first releases and still some of their current offerings. Big difference between innovating off of another companies own innovations, and making a clone.

And while the company Xisico which own JTS was established in 1992, the didn't start using the JTS trademark until 2016.

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True, and I get what you're saying but it's also not fair to make this assessment of JTS/AEA when H&N has copied JSB's exact weight and dimensions.

I agree that there would be a lime drawn, and in this instance there has been since there are no legal issues between the companies. Everything on the outside may look very similar, but the inside doesn't look the same or perform the same as JSB.

I'm not sure why they picked JTS as the brand name, maybe you are right that they were piggy backing off JSB but idk.

$p00kygH0ST said:

Where did you get yours?

I'm not denigrating the supplier. Not their fault. Mine came in fantastic shape. I got mine all from ThePelletShop. The guns In question have been feed almost solely JSB and fx 15.89s until this last purchase. Over and over again. I tried velocity, I tried dwell, lowered pressure, raised pressure, checked barrel grubs, cleaned barrel, examined breech rings, examined crowns. Swapped liners and barrels.... 2 tins of JSB branded JSB exact jumbo and one of Hades are just all over the place. I even swapped scopes to make sure. Never before have I experienced this with a JSB pellet. H&N and Benjamin. Yes. But not JSB. This Friday is my payday and typical bulk order day. I'm gonna order from trenier this time and see if it's just an unlucky load.

Sorry. I don't mean to denigrate you TPS, I love you. This is on predator, your pellets always arrive perfect TPS

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Utah Airguns, and a very recent order. No apparent damage on tins, all being packed tightly in foam.

Those tins you got must be a very bad batch, OR somewhere along the line of shipment took quite the beating/rattling around.

I was weary on my order because of all the bad mouthing towards JSB as of late, but...I am glad I ordered them anyway because I was struggling to find .177 pellets my LW barrel liked, and now I have. I think .177 is the hardest pellet to manufacture well due to them being so tiny.

-Matt

$p00kygH0ST said:

Where did you get yours?

I'm not denigrating the supplier. Not their fault. Mine came in fantastic shape. I got mine all from ThePelletShop. The guns In question have been feed almost solely JSB and fx 15.89s until this last purchase. Over and over again. I tried velocity, I tried dwell, lowered pressure, raised pressure, checked barrel grubs, cleaned barrel, examined breech rings, examined crowns. Swapped liners and barrels.... 2 tins of JSB branded JSB exact jumbo and one of Hades are just all over the place. I even swapped scopes to make sure. Never before have I experienced this with a JSB pellet. H&N and Benjamin. Yes. But not JSB. This Friday is my payday and typical bulk order day. I'm gonna order from trenier this time and see if it's just an unlucky load.

Sorry. I don't mean to denigrate you TPS, I love you. This is on predator, your pellets always arrive perfect TPS

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What gun are you shooting these out of, and how high is your reg?

Stubbers said:

Utah Airguns, and a very recent order. No apparent damage on tins, all being packed tightly in foam.

Those tins you got must be a very bad batch, OR somewhere along the line of shipment took quite the beating/rattling around.

I was weary on my order because of all the bad mouthing towards JSB as of late, but...I am glad I ordered them anyway because I was struggling to find .177 pellets my LW barrel liked, and now I have. I think .177 is the hardest pellet to manufacture well due to them being so tiny.

-Matt

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My biggest gripe has always been with JSB Hades in .177, they have never shot well in anything I have had. Jsb in other guns shot okay, as long as the pellets weren't mangled. FX pellets always shot better for me, groups were consistently tighter, and they were a buck or 2 cheaper.

In .177 I like H&N due to them having thicker skirts and a harder metal making it more difficult for the pellets to get damanged when there are 500 of them in a small tin.

JaceSpace1369 said:

My biggest gripe has always been with JSB Hades in .177, they have never shot well in anything I have had. Jsb in other guns shot okay, as long as the pellets weren't mangled. FX pellets always shot better for me, groups were consistently tighter, and they were a buck or 2 cheaper.

In .177 I like H&N due to them having thicker skirts and a harder metal making it more difficult for the pellets to get damanged when there are 500 of them in a small tin.

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The few .177 H&N's I tried grouped awful, if you could call them groups. Single ragged holes for me on the hades. Every barrel is different!

-Matt

Stubbers said:

The few .177 H&N's I tried grouped awful, if you could call them groups. Single ragged holes for me on the hades. Every barrel is different!

-Matt

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Indeed lol, I love the hunters and hunter extremes.

JaceSpace1369 said:

Indeed lol, I love the hunters and hunter extremes.

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I haven't tested them all, I think I only tested H&N baracudas in my .177 10gr IIRC, shot 10, and sold the remaining tin on eBay for a loss lol. My .22 loves the H&N 15.89's, a lot, so I have faith H&N's definitely have their place in many a barrels.

-Matt

Stubbers said:

I haven't tested them all, I think I only tested H&N baracudas in my .177 10gr IIRC, shot 10, and sold the remaining tin on eBay for a loss lol. My .22 loves the H&N 15.89's, a lot, so I have faith H&N's definitely have their place in many a barrels.

-Matt

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Agreed, I don't shoot many of their pellets unless they are the .177, otherwise I shoot their slugs in .22, .25, and .30

Stubbers said:

Utah Airguns, and a very recent order. No apparent damage on tins, all being packed tightly in foam.

Those tins you got must be a very bad batch, OR somewhere along the line of shipment took quite the beating/rattling around.

I was weary on my order because of all the bad mouthing towards JSB as of late, but...I am glad I ordered them anyway because I was struggling to find .177 pellets my LW barrel liked, and now I have. I think .177 is the hardest pellet to manufacture well due to them being so tiny.

-Matt

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Like I said. Mine came in impeccable physical shape.

$p00kygH0ST said:

Like I said. Mine came in impeccable physical shape.

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Right, what I was getting at is vibrations can result in minor internal damage with no apparent external damage to the tins. Unless you're referring to physical shape of pellets.

It's a reach but also a plausible explanation which gives the manufacturer benefit of the doubt, not saying they didn't produce bad batches due to lacking QC or some other factors, just spit balling.

I frankly don't lean towards either explanation being favorable, again just spit balling possibilities.

-Matt

JaceSpace1369 said:

What gun are you shooting these out of, and how high is your reg?

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Crown mk2 c9ontinuum with a STX Superiors. 380mm and 700mm.
98bar/11pw/1.125 rotations, med TP (15.89 880 TUNE and 110/2.0 rotations hst) 13pw, Max TP my .22 Hot Hybrid tune. Tried both of those on 380mm. Then 110bar, med TP, 1.2x hst, PW 4 on 700mm which is my 18.13 tune for 910 .

Notos. With stock barrel at 1900psi, 35% hst. 750 fps, FX 380 superior same settings. 791 fps , notos 2050psi, 75%~ hst 784 w stock barrel, 831fps , 2175psi 90%~ hst fx barrel only. 845fps

Edit. On the crown. I tried the whole power wheel in both directions to test velocity. Opened and close the TP. The starting point were my base settings for the listed projectile.

Stubbers said:

Right, what I was getting at is vibrations can result in minor internal damage with no apparent external damage to the tins. Unless you're referring to physical shape of pellets.

It's a reach but also a plausible explanation which gives the manufacturer benefit of the doubt, not saying they didn't produce bad batches due to lacking QC or some other factors, just spit balling.

I frankly don't lean towards either explanation being favorable, again just spit balling possibilities.

-Matt

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Pellet and tin. Flawless.

$p00kygH0ST said:

Pellet and tin. Flawless.

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*Scratches head*

You shoot any JTS from the same guns, or any other brand those guns have proven to like, or older batch jsbs to confirm its not a screw loose behind the trigger? (joking, but also not).

You can't go wrong trying the JTS, I have had exceptional results from them as well as others.

-Matt

Stubbers said:

*Scratches head*

You shoot any JTS from the same guns, or any other brand those guns have proven to like, or older batch jsbs to confirm its not a screw loose behind the trigger? (joking, but also not).

You can't go wrong trying the JTS, I have had exceptional results from them as well as others.

-Matt

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Read my first post on the thread. Jts held hole on hole. 1moa or less at 50 w JTS 16.08, FX and jsb 15.89 from prior batches, and from a 2006 batch. My NSA 17.5s on the notos were their usual stellar groups

$p00kygH0ST said:

Read my first post on the thread. Jts held hole on hole. 1moa or less at 50 w JTS 16.08, FX and jsb 15.89 from prior batches, and from a 2006 batch. My NSA 17.5s on the notos were their usual stellar groups

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Roger that. I wonder if JSB would honor replacing bad batches? We do pay a premium for them. I guess I just got lucky not needing any pellets during that time frame. Wonder if other shooters can/will eventually confirm JSB quality returning to normal or not.

-Matt

Stubbers said:

Roger that. I wonder if JSB would honor replacing bad batches? We do pay a premium for them. I guess I just got lucky not needing any pellets during that time frame. Wonder if other shooters can/will eventually confirm JSB quality returning to normal or not.

-Matt

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Im just chalking it up to worn die or some mistake in production. I love JSB. They've done out of their way for me personally before. They sent me clothes, hat, a decent amount of merch for free. After they saw a comment on social media praising them

$p00kygH0ST said:

Crown mk2 c9ontinuum with a STX Superiors. 380mm and 700mm.
98bar/11pw/1.125 rotations, med TP (15.89 880 TUNE and 110/2.0 rotations hst) 13pw, Max TP my .22 Hot Hybrid tune. Tried both of those on 380mm. Then 110bar, med TP, 1.2x hst, PW 4 on 700mm which is my 18.13 tune for 910 .

Notos. With stock barrel at 1900psi, 35% hst. 750 fps, FX 380 superior same settings. 791 fps , notos 2050psi, 75%~ hst 784 w stock barrel, 831fps , 2175psi 90%~ hst fx barrel only. 845fps

Edit. On the crown. I tried the whole power wheel in both directions to test velocity. Opened and close the TP. The starting point were my base settings for the listed projectile.

Click to expand...

Yeah, definitely a pellet issue then. At least the jts work perfectly in your gun

JaceSpace1369 said:

Yeah, definitely a pellet issue then. At least the jts work perfectly in your gun

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Yes. It was.

Got a tin from SPAW and Trenier and ......