Tuning No Hobby For Old Men

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sekiar said:
I’ll be 85 next month and still buying mostly not too expensive pcp air guns. And just ordered a Garmin crony. I have another crony but I’m shooting on a shaded porch and need a better crony. Shooting for me is my daily mode of exercise! Ha. At least that’s what I tell my wife. Charles
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I'm 74 and got into PCP's because I can shoot on my property without worries about an errant round going where it should not. Nearest Range is miles from here. I contend that site picture is the same on both BP & PCP's. Besides, pumping the gun is good exercise (I use a handful a lot).
 
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Humdinger said:
"50 cents per round for PBs vs. 3 cents per round in airguns"

I disagree with this comparison as it is an oversimpification. First of all, the only 3 cent pellets are .177 "off" brands. Larger calibers and slugs can cost more than lead bullets for reloading on a per unit basis. In a PCP, the pellet isn't the only cost per round. Compressed air is the propellant. The PCP is much more complicated than a firearn and all of mine cost much more than my high end rimfire target rifles. The cost of compressed air includes the tank, the compressor, or the cost of dive shop refills which adds time and travel expense into the equation. Now lets compare powder burner costs. I shoot 90% rimfire rounds and my go to CCI standard velocity .22s cost .07 cents per round and reloaded 9mm pistol and .38 reloads for pistol cost me 15 cents per round. If I add in the cost of my Alkin compressor, the PCPs, my two tank sets, etc. it actually is more expensive than firearms which cost me nothing in repair time and expense. PCPs have the advantage of less time to clean, but only marginally compared to rimfire rifles.

I've enjoyed having both air rifles and powder burners. My OP in this thread was lamenting the fact that as I get older, I have less patience to chase down leaks and rebuild finicky regulators than I did in years past. I've been on a PCP headache streak recently and the time I've spent repairing them and waiting for repair parts has made me become grouchy. I won't share the particulars as I've got everything working as it should. Let's just say I won't be applying for a job doing warranty repairs for air rifle manufacturers anytime soon.
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I don't know where you buy your pellets, but I use JSB 33.9 grain pellets in my .25 cal RTI and those cost me .0833 cents per pellet.
I also shoot NSA slugs at lest than a penny per round.

I also just looked up NSA 50 cal 235 grain at 5 cents a round.

I agree that the cost of the guns and support equipment adds up, but I did the math the first year I got into PCPs and if I shot the same amount of ammo in my powder burners as I do with my air guns, I would have completely eclipsed my PCP + equipment ininvestment.
 
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Let's take the cost of the gun out of the equation for a moment. How many folks get to shoot full auto at a VERY reasonable cost of 3 cents per round? If I had a PB full auto how much could I afford to shoot it? That is cost of the gun itself not considered. I'd need a sign at the freeway on ramp Will work for ammo. Now let's consider guns 10-30 K ain't happenin!! The cheapest full auto guns are usually 9mm guns, while full auto is a guaranteed grin from any gun guy, the guy buying the ammo is not grinning as broadly. 3 bucks per hundred rounds vs. 7 bucks per hundred rounds for .22 rimfire.
 
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I'll be 70 in a couple of months and put single shot loaders on my 4 PCPs: Streamline .22, Notos .22, S200 .177 and Stormrider .177. I like shooting pellets about as fast as I shoot arrows. I even fish slow.

Tuning is another story for this Ole Noob. That is why I am on this forum - just in case something goes awry with one of my PCPs and I need a hand to figure out what.

Even as late as a week ago I was all gung ho about pimping out my Notos. Got all "fired up" reading about what everyone was doing with their "Noto's," then I had an epiphany based on how much money I had already spent on the Stormrider putting in a regulator and getting an aftermarket moderator for an air rifle I thought shot pretty good out of the box albeit a little louder with the OEM mod than I liked. I thought, I've turned a 200 dollar .177 PCP into nearly a 400 dollar PCP and it will never be as quiet or shoot as good as the custom tuned S200 I lucked into, but it does have more power than the S200. Same with the Notos, it is an elegant sufficiency as it stands and if I want to shoot .22 pellets real quiet I just need to shoot the Streamline .22 that is tuned (not by me) for 18.13 JSBs with a "low tone" Huggett moderator.

This forum is pretty entertaining and sometimes educational.
 
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My little Yong Heng clone compressor is working great. I've a 30 min. SCBA tank and adapter with whip on 8 mm QD's on the way. I have maybe 5 min. total run time on it now, takes less than a minute to fill the 2028. I'll fill the tank once and then do an oil change on the compressor. Fortunately my compressor has a really heavy plywood tip out bin just below. I figure that is a good place to fill the SCBA tank.
 
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jmohme said:
I don't know where you buy your pellets, but I use JSB 33.9 grain pellets in my .25 cal RTI and those cost me .0833 cents per pellet.
I also shoot NSA slugs at lest than a penny per round.

I also just looked up NSA 50 cal 235 grain at 5 cents a round.
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You might need to move some decimal places around. The 50 cal 235gr are 52cents a round. The 25cal slugs are from 7-10cents a round.
 
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Humdinger said:
I'll be 76 later this month. I'm discovering that my patience is wearing thin maintaining PCPs and the associated tanks, fittings, and air compressors. I've always been self sufficient in servicing PCPs and equipment for them. The forums and Youtube are great tools for assisting users how to diagnose and fix most problems. However, it is inevitable that PCPs will develop leaks over time as o-rings harden and deteriorate, losing their ability to hold back high pressure air. In particular, I've found regulators to be a finicky and difficult item to rebuild and readjust to work after rebuilds. I enjoyed tinkering and got a sense of satisfaction when I could troubleshoot and solve my own problems without spending $$ for shipping, repairs, and dealer rebuild costs. Lately it seems I've spent more time chasing leaks and repairing PCPs than I do using them.

I'm going full circle in my shooting hobby interest. I love shooting sports but the savings in PCPs vs. firearms is less than it was when I started gravitating to air guns 25 years ago. Name brand PCPs are very pricy compared to firearm prices. Pellet and slug prices have increased to the point of losing their former price savings over rimfire rounds and reloading costs. The only disadvantage of powder burners is cleaning them after using them. But I have firearms that are 40 plus years old that don't need the rebuilds and servicing that PCPs inevitably require. I feel like the old sheriff Tommy Lee Jones at the end of No Country For Old Men. I'm tired of it all.
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The guy (Bill Squillace) just won the pyramid cup and the northeast a few months ago and he is in his 70's, I think alot of the enjoyment for him is in the continual tuning and tweaking for a better outcome.
 
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Humdinger said:
Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I started out with a large collection of nice springers and still have 5 of them including a Beeman R9/HW95 that is the fanciest of the bunch. I live in a city and enjoyed shooting in my own wooded back yard until a tree hugger wife of an attorney moved next door and started complaining that I was killing her beloved tree rats. She even complained if I was just target shooting with a hay bale backstop. Legally I was over a barrel so I have to travel 20 miles each way to enjoy my PCPs and powder burners. I only own 7 PCPs and all but one are higher end models. As some of you know, I've had a particular interest in air compressors and have enjoyed learning about their operation and upkeep. I've just reached a stage where I'd prefer to shoot rather than diagnose and repair. I've known guys who just buy and put aside PCPs that need repair. My personality is such that I have to figure out how to repair everything I can that isn't functioning as it should. It's in my DNA. It can be frustrating.
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I'd move. Life is too short to live next to an attorney.
 
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IndyDurtdigger said:
This doesn't bode well for me. I'm a few months shy of 50 and my patience with nearly everything has either worn thin or is completely gone.
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This is true for most everything, not just airguns. I'm 56 and I can bear witness to the fact that most everything has gotten more difficult over the past decade or so. Medical system, technology, support, communication, etc... Hang in there, it's most likely gonna get worse before it gets better.


rwsmike said:
I have been downsizing a little and clearly understand the frustration.
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Same for me. I once reached the tipping point 15+ years ago where maintaining/storing/financing them was out weighing enjoyment. I watched people like Pensylvania pistelerola or Cecil Whiteside and got a slap of reality. I downsized from 70+ something to less than 30 now. Gonna have that to less than 20 by next summer.

Part of that downsizing was eliminating heavy and hard to cock guns, mostly due to my health and ability. Guns like the TX 200, HW 97, RWS 54 all got sold. I focused on lighter and easier guns to use like the R7, AA CZ-200, FWB 103. I also got into silohuette shooting.

I understand the frustration aspect all too well. My fingers aren't as nimble nor my patience on some days. At some point soon I have about 7 guns that need resealed, tinkerer with or just straight up sold.
 
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WNYBill said:
I have no frustrations, just 85 years of watching things happen. Just came in from sighting in a new rifle, 300 yard range 50 yards from my back door. I do have to use the ATV to haul all the stuff. Maybe I should have said "the way I see it". I've lived a dream, never without a job and never lived in an urban area. But things have changed!

Please vote! Show an interest, we are 35 trillion in debt
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Ricklin said:
Let's take the cost of the gun out of the equation for a moment. How many folks get to shoot full auto at a VERY reasonable cost of 3 cents per round? If I had a PB full auto how much could I afford to shoot it? That is cost of the gun itself not considered. I'd need a sign at the freeway on ramp Will work for ammo. Now let's consider guns 10-30 K ain't happenin!! The cheapest full auto guns are usually 9mm guns, while full auto is a guaranteed grin from any gun guy, the guy buying the ammo is not grinning as broadly. 3 bucks per hundred rounds vs. 7 bucks per hundred rounds for .22 rimfire.
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funny story : my friend took his wife to a range near here for her birthday . the range had an original Tommy gun with the round Magazine in .45 . The Magazine lasted 5 bursts . Her eyes glowed /sparkled so she ask for another mag , = one long burst and 2 shorter bursts .

that was 200 shells of .45 auto for approximately 4 minutes trigger time . YIKES !
 
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64.5 yo today, and we don't have TV cable since 2007 ;) - browsing internet yes, a whole family can get busy each on its own.
Involuntarily retired last year from mechanical engineering, and I have seen that was coming in recent years .... I prepared on time some hobbies for each day of the week not to get bored so quickly.
I ended up having two PCP's only, and shooting in my gun club only 15 minutes from my door.
Usual volume I shoot BR a tin of pellets each visit, and if my Impact MK2 gets boring consistent, I just brake it apart and start the game over again :)
 
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Whenever I visit Florida or Las Vegas, well they have quite a few places one can rent and shoot full auto. I have yet to participate, money tends to fall out of my pockets in those two places anyhow, always a higher priority for the $$$.
5.56 / .223 is the cheapest rifle round, 37-38 cents a round or more buying one K quantities of it, and reloading saves little if any money in this caliber. Prolly closer to fifty cents for most folks, do the math with a 900 RPM cyclic rate @ .50 a pop.
I overstated the cost of pellets good ol wally world 6.98 per 500 for Crosman .22, that is less than 2 cents a round, so far they are good in my Beeman 2028. Bought a couple tins last night, in anticipation of the Blitz arriving.
 
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Ricklin said:
Whenever I visit Florida or Las Vegas, well they have quite a few places one can rent and shoot full auto. I have yet to participate, money tends to fall out of my pockets in those two places anyhow, always a higher priority for the $$$.
5.56 / .223 is the cheapest rifle round, 37-38 cents a round or more buying one K quantities of it, and reloading saves little if any money in this caliber. Prolly closer to fifty cents for most folks, do the math with a 900 RPM cyclic rate @ .50 a pop.
I overstated the cost of pellets good ol wally world 6.98 per 500 for Crosman .22, that is less than 2 cents a round, so far they are good in my Beeman 2028. Bought a couple tins last night, in anticipation of the Blitz arriving.
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you'll probably enjoy the blitz, it's got a few things I wish was different..I wish the full auto was 600-700 instead of 1200 RPM.. the trigger pull is hard..I got mine a little bit lighter with just a little grease on the sear and hammer but it could use a good polish.. one reason I got it was it has open sights, not many do now days..
Mark
 
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I ordered up an assortment of pellets, I have a bottle and fill whip on the way. I've been charging the Beeman directly from my Yong Heng clone it fills it up quick. An air bottle will be a good thing. I'll take the chance on expired SCBA, I'll hedge my bet by filling it inside a heavy cabinet and give it a good inspection when it shows up. I've heard zero horror stories, but loads of warnings. Can always go lower on the tank pressure. I mainly plink with the 2028, once i know it's capability I'll turn the power down for a 600-650 MV for the backyard. It seems to like the cheapo Crosman pellets, once I have a bench set up I will get fussier on pellets, shooting offhand pellets make zero difference for me. I am loving the backyard aspect. I have an old outbuilding to stay dry too. The rangefinder sez 10 meters, perfect. I am working on that patience thing. I find myself mellowing a bit with age, not hard to be patient now. My hyperactivity has reduced considerably.
 
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Dead-On said:
This is true for most everything, not just airguns. I'm 56 and I can bear witness to the fact that most everything has gotten more difficult over the past decade or so. Medical system, technology, support, communication, etc... Hang in there, it's most likely gonna get worse before it gets better.
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Something to look forward too. That actually got a smile out of me. Or was it a smirk?

My biggest problem or so I think. I'm a mechanic so work on stuff all day every day and have somehow picked multiple hobbies that require in depth knowledge and skill sets as well as constant work. So much so that I work on the stuff for my so-called hobbies as much more than I use them and it's all of them, I apparently can't help myself. It has occurred to me in the last year that I'm doing it wrong or something wrong.

Now that I've typed this out I've gotta go check a batch of antique propellent that's spent it's first 24 hours in a ball mill. SMH
 
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Dairyboy said:
You might need to move some decimal places around. The 50 cal 235gr are 52cents a round. The 25cal slugs are from 7-10cents a round.
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Dairyboy said:
You might need to move some decimal places around. The 50 cal 235gr are 52cents a round. The 25cal slugs are from 7-10cents a round.
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Yeah, my brain was obviously elsewhere.
 
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Well, now it is just the wait for the brown truck, my Blitz in .22 is on it's merry way. Frisco guns in TX had a good deal. Yup I feel that frustration working on stuff, allow me to make some suggestions that really do reduce the frustration of working on these PCP guns for us older guys.
1. Rechargeable LED headlight. Numero Uno for me, I can't fix it if I can't see it. Pry my headlight from my cold dead fingers.
2. Great tools. Sure the usual good gun screwdrivers, good tools go beyond that.
3. Knowing when to say when. Feeling frustrated? walk away and do something else for a while.
4. Dedicated workbench Can't break down the airgun on the kitchen table, momma will want to serve dinner. Can't do #3 W/O #4.
I'm told patience is a virtue, that helps a lot.
 
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Ricklin said:
Well, now it is just the wait for the brown truck, my Blitz in .22 is on it's merry way. Frisco guns in TX had a good deal. Yup I feel that frustration working on stuff, allow me to make some suggestions that really do reduce the frustration of working on these PCP guns for us older guys.
1. Rechargeable LED headlight. Numero Uno for me, I can't fix it if I can't see it. Pry my headlight from my cold dead fingers.
2. Great tools. Sure the usual good gun screwdrivers, good tools go beyond that.
3. Knowing when to say when. Feeling frustrated? walk away and do something else for a while.
4. Dedicated workbench Can't break down the airgun on the kitchen table, momma will want to serve dinner. Can't do #3 W/O #4.
I'm told patience is a virtue, that helps a lot.
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I went to the Dr. the other day and had my patience tested, got the results back...I'm NEGATIVE. :cool:
 
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