Oh the $$$$....

Spartan said:

My goodness.

It really wasn't that long ago when the higher-end production gun starting points were in the $1,000-1,500 range. I remember even having sticker shock from that. That was a lot of money for an airgun. My non-airgun buddies used to think I was a crazy person for dropping that on what they saw as "pellet guns." But I would drop that occasionally. I felt the value was just barely there at those price points. Barely. Just enough to justify that incredible cost.

But now it looks like the new starting point for the higher-end guns is $2,200-2,500. About double the already astronomical prices.

I don't even know what happened. But these days I sure do find myself not buying the new offerings.

Did we do this to ourselves? Are the vendors just following suit with each other since we showed we would pay that as a community?

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I think WE had something to do with willingness to pay the $$ , but everything is more $$ and that means everybody needs higher wages and higher benefits . .

Judging from my grocery bill this could easily just be inflation from the COVID era. I don't know what cumulative inflation has been like in the States since COVID but here in Canada our grocery prices are nearly double. We've had about 20% inflation (averaged over all items) but some items have inflated more rapidly than others.

I dipped my toe in the higher priced end with a Caiman X earlier this year. I like the gun and I think it is very well made but when I compare it to my several under $500 guns it is hard to justify the price difference. I am sure that there are more airguns sold for under $500 than >$2000. Probably more than >$1000 too. Just like there are more Fords and Chevies sold than BMWs and Porches (one of my vehicles is a BMW). I really doubt I decide to spend >$2000 on any gun, air or otherwise, If others only want to shoot those kind of rifles they can, of course. Wouldn't bother me a bit. I can still do what I want to with my much less expensive airguns. In my mind the law of diminishing returns is a very real thing but some really have to have "the best". I'm just not sure that really translates into the most expensive very well. But not everybody agrees.

when you are shooting at 96 or 98 percent and a year go's by and your still hovering at the same percent , then you invest in the better gun . i did and immediately gained better / more consistent scores / hits / kills .

It all depends on your level of obsession, need, expectation………I find ways to get my expensive stuff because that’s what I enjoy. I don’t enjoy flimsy, plastic feeling guns that lack parts and support.

PasadenaMike said:

It all depends on your level of obsession, need, expectation………I find ways to get my expensive stuff because that’s what I enjoy. I don’t enjoy flimsy, plastic feeling guns that lack parts and support.

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I totally agree with that statement, unfortunately real life costs currently limit my obsession.

Currently owned, high cost air rifles finally have to earn my respect, the financial honeymoon is over.

My big spend days are over. I'm actually quite relieved.

The current practice of pricing pellet guns in the $1,500 - $2,000 range is only because consumers enable it. If no one bought these guns, they would either be removed from the market, or priced to sell.

Inflation isn't to blame, there are plenty of manufacturers producing top quality airguns for very low cost...so lets not go that route. Likewise, good quality scope prices are coming down, not going up...the same should be occurring (and will be) for quality pellet guns.


(Story time)
I caught a dumb charge when I was younger, I knew this charge was frivolous and would get dismissed with any representation. First 4 lawyers I contacted wanted $10,000, not a retainer either, flat $10k....The last one I contacted said, $1,500 retainer and I bet you'll get a good portion of it back, because he believed my side of the story (as any lawyer should)...case was dismissed and I received $700 back or so from the retainer. The 4 previous lawyers all swore that they were worth the $10,000 value of representation, and that I'd be selling myself short looking for someone less expensive...

Yea, I am comparing high end pellet gun manufacturers to lawyers, because they're both......greedy, and most often unnecessarily over-priced.

-Matt

The juice just isn't worth the squeeze with the higher end guns. That's PB or MC kinda money, regardless of what it's being driven by. (Think of fuel prices.)

I find it a lot more entertaining to take a 'sub-standard' offering and make it into a good performer. Brain-sweat equity has more meaning than bought status in my mind. I do look forward to what AirnGasMan has to say here.

Cheers,

J~

Is there really a 60% or more markup on Air Rifles? That Steve fellow in one of his videos said that a $300 Rifle is made for about $100 and then about $100 to advertisers/marketers and the other $100 to the retailer?

Stubbers said:

The current practice of pricing pellet guns in the $1,500 - $2,000 range is only because consumers enable it. If no one bought these guns, they would either be removed from the market, or priced to sell.

Inflation isn't to blame, there are plenty of manufacturers producing top quality airguns for very low cost...so lets not go that route. Likewise, good quality scope prices are coming down, not going up...the same should be occurring (and will be) for quality pellet guns.


(Story time)
I caught a dumb charge when I was younger, I knew this charge was frivolous and would get dismissed with any representation. First 4 lawyers I contacted wanted $10,000, not a retainer either, flat $10k....The last one I contacted said, $1,500 retainer and I bet you'll get a good portion of it back, because he believed my side of the story (as any lawyer should)...case was dismissed and I received $700 back or so from the retainer. The 4 previous lawyers all swore that they were worth the $10,000 value of representation, and that I'd be selling myself short looking for someone less expensive...

Yea, I am comparing high end pellet gun manufacturers to lawyers, because they're both......greedy, and most often unnecessarily over-priced.

-Matt

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Agree with most of what you said-more expensive doesn't always mean better. If someone wants to charge a higher price for their goods or services, then that has to be warranted by reputation of success from prior business then they have that reputation of "getting the job done" and then that validates the money spent. Just saying that upfront without the history of proof is going to be a hard sell to anyone with common sense. Some folks are worth every penny that you pay them, so it is buyer beware.

Buy used.

I still paid a good bit for mine, but it was a LOT easier swallowing $850 for a used Taipan Vet Mk1 than it would have been for a $1600 new Vet Mk2… Quality costs, but there absolutely comes a point of diminishing returns. When it comes to hard goods, I almost exclusively buy used, and it’s saved me thousands and thousands of dollars throughout my life.

Chief Ten-Beers said:

Is there really a 60% or more markup on Air Rifles? That Steve fellow in one of his videos said that a $300 Rifle is made for about $100 and then about $100 to advertisers/marketers and the other $100 to the retailer?

Click to expand...

If a $300 rifle retail costs $100 to build you will be in business for a couple months. Mass production of anything has to have crazy margins to be profitable. That $300 rifle at best better only cost $50 or less to build and that's on the high end. Also be aware that the business world works on margins not markups-2 different things calculated in 2 different ways. You would probably be shocked on how much it actually costs to build that $80k pick up these manufacturers are trying to sell you. Same with all mass-produced products.

wwo2015 said:

Agree with most of what you said-more expensive doesn't always mean better. If someone wants to charge a higher price for their goods or services, then that has to be warranted by reputation of success from prior business then they have that reputation of "getting the job done" and then that validates the money spent. Just saying that upfront without the history of proof is going to be a hard sell to anyone with common sense. Some folks are worth every penny that you pay them, so it is buyer beware.

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My case in point, the story I attached is proof you don't always get what you pay for..and the lawyer I got for $1,500 retained was not some inexperienced novice, he was closer to retirement at that point of his career.

Cost ≠ Value

-Matt

wwo2015 said:

If a $300 rifle retail costs $100 to build you will be in business for a couple months. Mass production of anything has to have crazy margins to be profitable. That $300 rifle at best better only cost $50 or less to build and that's on the high end. Also be aware that the business world works on margins not markups-2 different things calculated in 2 different ways. You would probably be shocked on how much it actually costs to build that $80k pick up these manufacturers are trying to sell you. Same with all mass-produced products.

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Funny, because I have seen the actual cost basis of fx products and their mark ups.

Add to that, mechanics mark up their parts over cost by a good margin.

Add to that, the 80k pick up could have an 80k sticker price with an MSRP of 60k...because of dealer markups.

-Matt

I wonder how much competition forces prices to be higher. Despite the fact that the airgun industry is still 25 years behind the cutting edge of technology, and recycles designs, and uses the customer base as their test bed, the cost to develop new designs, sort of test them, tool up and produce products, market them, and perform warranty work and damage control every few months just to stay relevant has got to contribute to the rising costs.

I have more fun and make more awesome shots with my $125 Hatsan than most guys do with a $4k rig. The smile on my face proves it.

You don't have to buy a high end airgun to experience high end fun.... unless you do.

In which case you need to pay more for an air rifle to experience a higher level thrill. So the market has a rifle to satisfy those needs too.

I get excited easily so I don't have to spend much to get a quality buzz shooting a pellet rifle. Every hit is a thrill no matter how much the rifle costs. And many cheap guns will shoot very closely with the best on the market.

Yeah, airguns are too expensive. If you can't get a thrill from the cheap stuff you are going to have to increase the dose or switch to a more expensive drug.

I've only shot 200 twice on the 30 yard challenge. My first was last year with my P35-22, an under $500 airgun. My second was this year with my Caiman X. I did not count targets but my impression is that it took about the same number of attempts with both guns to get there (a lot). The Caiman cost about 3X the P35 price.

But that is not the entire story. The Caiman makes about the same fpe as the P35 but the regulator on the Caiman is at 100 bar and the P35 is at about 140 bar. The internal passages of the Caiman are bigger and more streamlined so it could be significantly higher in power. The cocking mechanism of the P35 has some slop in it. It feels OK just not terribly precise. The Caiman is much more precise and is also lighter. The Caiman fill probe has not leaked during a fill, one of my SPA probes is pretty bad. Compared to my Avenger the P35 is well made. But compared to the Caiman the machining is a bit sloppy. I like shooting both and if I had to pick I would pick the P35-22. I see advantages in my higher priced airgun, but I also like things about the lower priced one better too. It just is not a situation where the higher priced airgun is better in every way. It is more accurate than my Avenger and P35-25 but I'm not sure it's more accurate than my P35-177 or Prod and I'm sure it is not more accurate than my P35-22. I agree it's nice to have nicer things but I think my P35s are pretty nice.