Important Information and Ideas for Sellers and Buyers of Airguns

Having completed many many successful buying and selling transactions using AGN's classified section, I thought it would be nice to create a thread devoted to my Lessons Learned that I feel are most valuable:

#1) always create a proper bill of sale and record your purchases and sales to include historical info like:
date and source of acquisition and take pictures that include:

A) serial numbers
B) identifying features.

How many of us do this? Thus the value of the information.

#2) If you are going to sell high dollar items, clearly identify what the item is and make sure to include a serial number(s) when applicable.

****Include a bill of sale and an additional shipping label on the inside box*****

#3) Only ship properly (double boxed and extremely well packaged) items that make it very difficult for a carrier to peak inside. Find ways to stiffen the boxes against being bent or crushed. I recently had a brand new Redwolf arrive with a bent barrel and cracked barrel shroud because the shipper failed to stiffen the inner to outer packaging method.

#4) Properly and truthfully declare package contents and fully insure them so that you can actually be refunded in case of carrier loss. At the very least, use the item your shipping legal nomenclature on shipping documents without trying to be sly by using terms like pneumatic tool or paper puncher or whatever. If you are trying to save a nickel you are likely to loose many dollars.

#5) always require a "signature on the receiving end" to avoid a porch pirate or worse an thieving delivery person.

#6) If an item is lost / or suspected of being stolen, immediately contact the carrier and provide all your documentation, time is of the essence - there is always a waiting period before you can file a claim.

#7) After the waiting period is lapsed and the carrier declares the loss, file a police report, as a police report provides a clear legal documentation of the circumstances surrounding the incident and your desire to recover your property.

#8) Be Fully aware of what is and isn't insurable and thus financially recoverable - an example: if you use Pirate Shipping, a third party discount shipper - they state in their rules that Airguns are not covered by their insurance. You need to know exactly what UPS / FEDEX / USPS will actually allow and insure.

#9) as sellers and buyers be VERY clear of what you will do in case of loss or damage.

#10) be kind enough to leave feedback for one another.

#11) be ever alert to the scammers.... they are getting good at stealing photos from a variety of sources. Vet them fully and if needed have them share a picture of a drivers license, a snail mail address that you can look up, email. Remember the more info you get up front, the less likely you are to be scammed. Recently the only way i avoided a 2K scam was because when something felt off... i said i wanted to pick the gun up in person and pay in cash.. at that point lots of reasons why that wasn't possible started flying and the scammer was outed.

I encourage AGN members to add more lessons learned to this thread; but keep them as factual information, not just hearsay.
The Classified Section of this forum is a valuable way to buy, sell, and trade things which can help us all enjoy our sport more.

I also encourage you to visit this thread regarding shipping:
 
Last edited:
I think
...#8) Be Fully aware of what is and isn't insurable and thus financially recoverable - an example: if you use Pirate Shipping, a third party discount shipper - they state in their rules that Airguns are not covered by their insurance. You need to know exactly what UPS / FEDEX / USPS will actually allow and insure...

I think this statement needs clarification before it's taken as gospel.

I spoke with Luke in customer service at Pirateship this morning and Pirateship does not state that airguns are not covered in thier insurance and they provide $100.00 of insurance on any item insurable by your selected carrier.

This is where it gets sticky. UPS does not allow airguns and therefore are not insurable.

USPS does allow shipping airguns and they are insurable through USPS and third party indurers.

if the airgun has a velocity greater than 400fps, a signature is required upon delivery.

 
Since when does UPS not ship airguns.?
I for one try to never do any deals without a full conversation over the phone & sometimes multiple phone calls. I can eliminate most scammers with that phone call. I have been scammed at here before by basically a pro scammer known on AGN, I did not do that phone call on that one. I have had my share of garbage don't give a crap packing come to my door. It's the loose items that have done most all my shipping damage. Loose parts need to be packaged individually & to where they can't get to main airgun. loose mags, fill stems, etc, etc do a shi.. ton of damage in shipping if loose.
 
  • Like
Reactions: woogie_man
I think


I think this statement needs clarification before it's taken as gospel.

I spoke with Luke in customer service at Pirateship this morning and Pirateship does not state that airguns are not covered in thier insurance and they provide $100.00 of insurance on any item insurable by your selected carrier.

This is where it gets sticky. UPS does not allow airguns and therefore are not insurable.

USPS does allow shipping airguns and they are insurable through USPS and third party indurers.

if the airgun has a velocity greater than 400fps, a signature is required upon delivery.

I would specifically as for the reference location in writing as "word of mouth" is far from binding esp when filing a claim for $3k plus.
AOA uses UPS almost exclusively so?
I think the FPS limitation may be a "by the state" legality like age restrictions?
 
I would specifically as for the reference location in writing as "word of mouth" is far from binding esp when filing a claim for $3k plus.
AOA uses UPS almost exclusively so?
I think the FPS limitation may be a "by the state" legality like age restrictions?

I'm digging deeper into the UPS thing, I can only find "fire arms" listed under UPS's own prohibitions.

I'll call and see if I can get a person/manager to speak with.
 
1) There is a LOT of erroneous information about airgun shipping regulations, EVEN HERE.

2) For instance, last time I checked the USPS does allow shipping air rifles (as non-firearms), but does NOT allow shipping air pistols (as non-firearms).

3) Also for instance, last time I checked UPS does allow shipping air rifles and air pistols (as non-firearms).

4) Any given shipping clerk is likely to be utterly ignorant about not only federal airgun shipping laws, but the airgun shipping regulations of the company or agency employing them.

5) Any given shipping clerk is likely (also) to be rabidly allergic to anything GUN:eek: related, often to such degrees as to reflexively refuse to accept a(ny) package containing anything GUN:eek: related.

6) The best way to deal with such mindlessly incompetent employees is to show them a copy of THEIR COMPANY'S AIRGUN SHIPPING REGULATIONS that you brought along to deal with such mindlessly incompetent employees.

7) If/WHEN they refuse to acquiesce their ignorance/prejudice, ask to speak to their superior.

8) If/WHEN the superior refuses to acquiesce their ignorance/prejudice, ask to speak to her superior.

9) The first, last and ONLY damage claim I've had to deal with as a shipper in hundreds of long-distance airgun sales over the last 40 years took NINE MONTHS of dealing with multiple UPS employees before one said, "I'll send a check today". By the way, I refunded the buyer's purchase price immediately; before even starting the claims process.

10) In that same time I've had to educate several shippers of airguns that THEY are responsible for filing and dealing with damage claims; and the buyer can't. Hence, buyers should demand an immediate refund from a seller that inadequately packaged an airgun damaged in shipping.

11) If/WHEN the seller refuses to issue refund, inform them in that case you will have to leave feedback to that effect.

12) If/WHEN the seller still refuses to issue refund, leave feedback to that effect.

13) In feedback be succinct as possible, totally honest, "just the facts, Ma'am". THE TRUTH IS FANTASTIC ENOUGH FOR OUR/YOUR PURPOSES.

Here are photos of the last damage claim I had to demand the seller not only issue a refund for inadequately packaging a nice air rifle I'd been looking for for years, but also the seller email a PRE-PAID shipping label if they wanted the damaged rifle back.

Bent 38 R.jpg


Box front.jpg


The excellent condition Diana 38 walnut was single-boxed, with nothing but bubble-wrap to protect it from package-handling apes bent on destroying the contents of every package they touch.

Last, but not least-

14) Sellers must package every item they ship in such OVERKILL MANNER as to insure package-handling apes bent on destroying the contents of every package they touch CANNOT SUCCEED! An extra TWO HOURS spent packaging might save you NINE MONTHS of dealing with UPS, FedEx or USPS agents' best efforts to avoid paying damage claims.

Or... feel free to ignore my advice. 🥴

.
 
Here's where the issues begin...

UPS does not list air guns anywhere in thier site, just firearms, that includes air pistols as gar as I can find.

USPS has it laid out better with just the state and localities warning for prohibited sales snd signature needed for guns over 400 fps.

Let's get actual links, I provided the Pirateship link, let's get the UPS & USPS links posted too.
 
Let's get actual links

USPS airgun shipping policies (no, I won't explain it)-



UPS airgun shipping policies suggest they follow federal laws; meaning they understand airguns are NOT firearms-



FedEx airgun shipping regulations are as elusive as FedEx SUCKS. So lacking any information on their website, here is a screenshot of something I found in Cyberspace-

1728335500134.png


And since it's common knowledge you can believe everything you see on the internet, I'll go out on a limb here by proclaiming the screenshot is not only possibly as dependable GOSPEL as anything else in Cyberspace, but also possibly as dependable as FedEx itself.(n)

P.S.- You're welcome... AGAIN.


AAP new cover small.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: cavedweller
What I was told at the UPS store was they would not ship airguns. However the regional UPS facility would take the airgun and ship it.,
UPS Stores are independently owned franchises, so their policies are not necessarily the same as UPS. Even if UPS Policy states it's okay, they can flat our refuse and there's nothing you can do about it, other than not patronize their store!

I spoke to my local UPS delivery guy, and he has no problem picking up a package at my front door, no questions asked, no BS, just as long as it has a prepaid label attached to it. Most UPS Driver have set routes, so chances are, it's the same delivery guy driving down your street every day. A few minutes spent talking with them could alleviate a lot of frustration!
 
UPS Stores are independently owned franchises, so their policies are not necessarily the same as UPS. Even if UPS Policy states it's okay, they can flat our refuse and there's nothing you can do about it, other than not patronize their store!

I spoke to my local UPS delivery guy, and he has no problem picking up a package at my front door, no questions asked, no BS, just as long as it has a prepaid label attached to it. Most UPS Driver have set routes, so chances are, it's the same delivery guy driving down your street every day. A few minutes spent talking with them could alleviate a lot of frustration!
thats how i do it
 
  • Like
Reactions: Firewalker
1) There is a LOT of erroneous information about airgun shipping regulations, EVEN HERE.

2) For instance, last time I checked the USPS does allow shipping air rifles (as non-firearms), but does NOT allow shipping air pistols (as non-firearms).

3) Also for instance, last time I checked UPS does allow shipping air rifles and air pistols (as non-firearms).

4) Any given shipping clerk is likely to be utterly ignorant about not only federal airgun shipping laws, but the airgun shipping regulations of the company or agency employing them.

5) Any given shipping clerk is likely (also) to be rabidly allergic to anything GUN:eek: related, often to such degrees as to reflexively refuse to accept a(ny) package containing anything GUN:eek: related.

6) The best way to deal with such mindlessly incompetent employees is to show them a copy of THEIR COMPANY'S AIRGUN SHIPPING REGULATIONS that you brought along to deal with such mindlessly incompetent employees.

7) If/WHEN they refuse to acquiesce their ignorance/prejudice, ask to speak to their superior.

8) If/WHEN the superior refuses to acquiesce their ignorance/prejudice, ask to speak to her superior.

9) The first, last and ONLY damage claim I've had to deal with as a shipper in hundreds of long-distance airgun sales over the last 40 years took NINE MONTHS of dealing with multiple UPS employees before one said, "I'll send a check today". By the way, I refunded the buyer's purchase price immediately; before even starting the claims process.

10) In that same time I've had to educate several shippers of airguns that THEY are responsible for filing and dealing with damage claims; and the buyer can't. Hence, buyers should demand an immediate refund from a seller that inadequately packaged an airgun damaged in shipping.

11) If/WHEN the seller refuses to issue refund, inform them in that case you will have to leave feedback to that effect.

12) If/WHEN the seller still refuses to issue refund, leave feedback to that effect.

13) In feedback be succinct as possible, totally honest, "just the facts, Ma'am". THE TRUTH IS FANTASTIC ENOUGH FOR OUR/YOUR PURPOSES.

Here are photos of the last damage claim I had to demand the seller not only issue a refund for inadequately packaging a nice air rifle I'd been looking for for years, but also the seller email a PRE-PAID shipping label if they wanted the damaged rifle back.

View attachment 502528

View attachment 502529

The excellent condition Diana 38 walnut was single-boxed, with nothing but bubble-wrap to protect it from package-handling apes bent on destroying the contents of every package they touch.

Last, but not least-

14) Sellers must package every item they ship in such OVERKILL MANNER as to insure package-handling apes bent on destroying the contents of every package they touch CANNOT SUCCEED! An extra TWO HOURS spent packaging might save you NINE MONTHS of dealing with UPS, FedEx or USPS agents' best efforts to avoid paying damage claims.

Or... feel free to ignore my advice. 🥴

.
Perfect post great info
 
1) There is a LOT of erroneous information about airgun shipping regulations, EVEN HERE.

2) For instance, last time I checked the USPS does allow shipping air rifles (as non-firearms), but does NOT allow shipping air pistols (as non-firearms).

3) Also for instance, last time I checked UPS does allow shipping air rifles and air pistols (as non-firearms).

4) Any given shipping clerk is likely to be utterly ignorant about not only federal airgun shipping laws, but the airgun shipping regulations of the company or agency employing them.

5) Any given shipping clerk is likely (also) to be rabidly allergic to anything GUN:eek: related, often to such degrees as to reflexively refuse to accept a(ny) package containing anything GUN:eek: related.

6) The best way to deal with such mindlessly incompetent employees is to show them a copy of THEIR COMPANY'S AIRGUN SHIPPING REGULATIONS that you brought along to deal with such mindlessly incompetent employees.

7) If/WHEN they refuse to acquiesce their ignorance/prejudice, ask to speak to their superior.

8) If/WHEN the superior refuses to acquiesce their ignorance/prejudice, ask to speak to her superior.

9) The first, last and ONLY damage claim I've had to deal with as a shipper in hundreds of long-distance airgun sales over the last 40 years took NINE MONTHS of dealing with multiple UPS employees before one said, "I'll send a check today". By the way, I refunded the buyer's purchase price immediately; before even starting the claims process.

10) In that same time I've had to educate several shippers of airguns that THEY are responsible for filing and dealing with damage claims; and the buyer can't. Hence, buyers should demand an immediate refund from a seller that inadequately packaged an airgun damaged in shipping.

11) If/WHEN the seller refuses to issue refund, inform them in that case you will have to leave feedback to that effect.

12) If/WHEN the seller still refuses to issue refund, leave feedback to that effect.

13) In feedback be succinct as possible, totally honest, "just the facts, Ma'am". THE TRUTH IS FANTASTIC ENOUGH FOR OUR/YOUR PURPOSES.

Here are photos of the last damage claim I had to demand the seller not only issue a refund for inadequately packaging a nice air rifle I'd been looking for for years, but also the seller email a PRE-PAID shipping label if they wanted the damaged rifle back.

View attachment 502528

View attachment 502529

The excellent condition Diana 38 walnut was single-boxed, with nothing but bubble-wrap to protect it from package-handling apes bent on destroying the contents of every package they touch.

Last, but not least-

14) Sellers must package every item they ship in such OVERKILL MANNER as to insure package-handling apes bent on destroying the contents of every package they touch CANNOT SUCCEED! An extra TWO HOURS spent packaging might save you NINE MONTHS of dealing with UPS, FedEx or USPS agents' best efforts to avoid paying damage claims.

Or... feel free to ignore my advice. 🥴

.
Here’s how you destroy a brand new $3400 airgun:
Put the smaller box in a bigger box and fail to add padding and other solid methods to stiffen it from bending.
The first picture shows the inner box layed along side a true straight edge.
IMG_8278.jpeg

IMG_8268.jpeg

IMG_8276.jpeg

IMG_8273.jpeg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: AirNGasman
I just drove 3.5 hours to pick up a rifle F 2F and paid cash the drove 3.5 hours home .
I put the rifle and original box in an appropriate shipping box with padding and measured and weighted it .
The cost @ USPS was $ 47.39 My cost in gas (Ram Hemi pick up ) was $55.29 , worth every penny .
 
Here’s how you destroy a brand new $3400 airgun:
Put the smaller box in a bigger box and fail to add padding and other solid methods to stiffen it from bending.
The first picture shows the inner box layed along side a true straight edge.
View attachment 502720
View attachment 502721
View attachment 502722
View attachment 502723


Your and my examples of shipping damage resulting from a combination of inadequate packaging and heavy blows to it from the side remind me I neglected to point out the most common causes of serious shipping damage to airguns (other than inadequate packaging).

From my experiences it seems most serious damage probably results from heavy blows or stresses to the side of the box, and/or being dropped 3-4 feet onto a hard surface (think dropping off the truck onto pavement or your driveway). In either COMMON case, a package requires SUBSTANTIAL reinforcements to protect the contents from such egregious abuse; and the longer, heavier the contents and package, the MORE SUBSTANTIAL must be the reinforcements. Packing peanuts and bubble-wrap are absolute JOKES for protecting long, heavy air rifles.

And speaking of jokes, how about a few clueless seller attitudes?

A) "That should be good enough. It's just a pellet gun."
B) "I came off my asking price 5%, so why should I care if it arrives damaged?"
C) "I make $200 an hour at Dewey, Cheatham and Howe, LLC; so I'm not gonna invest thirty minutes packaging a $2,000 BB gun on my day off."
D) "These packing peanuts sure make quick work of packaging a $2,000 BB gun!"
E) "This bubble-wrap is a great time-saver!"
F) "Incompetency epidemic? WHAT incompetency epidemic?"
G) "Gotta get this thing packaged before my wife gets home from shopping."
H) "Gotta get to my golf date before my paralegal hooks up with my caddy."

.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dgeesaman