• Please consider adding your "Event" to the Calendar located on our Home page!

Mythbusting Precision BR

thomasair

Member
Manufacturer
Nov 6, 2016
2,393
3,676
Colorado, United States
I'm making this thread to address some of the misconceptions that inexperienced shooters have when they come to their first N50 or USARB type precision BR match ...or when they first get acquainted with an experienced and accomplished precision air BR shooter. Clubs can exist where all of the shooters at the club are inexperienced and they are usually very happy shooting with each other until an experienced shooter shows up and upsets the established balance. The experienced shooter will usually have much more specialized equipment and it will be the first thing to come under the lens of the inexperienced.



What am I referring to when I say specialized equipment?



I'm talking about things that make life easier for the precision shooter. One of the main items in this category is the rest setup. New shooters often use items like sand bags or bipods to support the rifle because they are things they already have or can at least obtain with a low investment cost. The low cost items are fully able to support a rifle properly to make an accurate shot, but lack the ability to easily move to the next bull without a lot of wiggling, squeezing, and general fiddling to get the crosshair aligned and gun settled for the next shot. Here is where the mechanical front rest comes in to play. With a mechanical front rest....you can simple turn a knob or move a joystick to position yourself at the next bull. The accuracy of the gun is not improved in any way over the more modest means of support , but the convenience factor is improved dramatically. Will this improved convenience factor result in better scores? Maybe, if you are an inexperienced shooter. The reason for this is because you will be less likely to take a shot before you are optimally positioned or before the rifle is properly settled. An experienced shooter can shoot the same scores with the low budget items....but since precision BR is something they do a lot of....they don't want to.



Next up is the one piece rest vs the two piece setup. The consensus among people that have no experience with the one piece in air rifle BR is that it will surely produce higher scores. They mostly think that because some disciplines have rules that exclude the one piece setup and they apply the standard logic of thinking that if something is not allowed it is because it's unfair to anyone that doesn't have it. Most all of the rules in Precision Air Rifle BR were borrowed from established centerfire or rimfire disciplines that existed long before air. The air rifles used in precision air BR are rather anemic compared to even a 22lr rimfire rifle. The leading air rifles in n50 are about 1/2 the power of 22lr. The rifles used in usarb are yet another small fraction of that. There is no performance improvement in a one piece rest vs a two piece in precision air rifle BR. Anyone that claims there is has surely not tested that claim in a proper manner. If you shoot higher scores with a one piece it's probably because you haven't figured out how to properly set up a two piece or are simply careless when doing so. Maybe you have a bind somewhere creating a torque or you are not careful about your bag spacing or something else. Once you set up a one piece you really don't have to think about it again. I prefer a one piece because I can make the trip to and from the bench in one less trip. Rifle in one hand and rest in the other. If I use a two piece I have to make an extra trip. I also like the more rearward position of the elevation and windage controls. I made a thread a while back on my slug gun comparing the scores of a series of cards shot from both my one and two piece setup. Although I actually shot more xs off the 2 piece, they scores were identical. If I had shot 100 cards off each, there would be no significant difference unless I got sloppy on my setup. The 2 piece that runs on sand bags is actually easier to find a good setup using my slug gun than the one piece that uses hard rest points. Some one piece rests have no provision for adjusting the spacing between the front and rear rest points and are completely unsuitable with my slug gun that needs a specific spacing to shoot well. In N50...we made no rules about rest. This was because the guys that made the rules are experienced precision air rifle BR shooters and know there is no actual accuracy advantage to any of the setups in air rifle. Disallowing something would only serve to inconvenience the dedicated guys that keep the game going. The inexperienced guys come and go. Most people will never stay in the game long enough to be competitive.



Tethering is another subject that comes under false judgement. Some new shooters believe that there is somehow a score advantage to tethering your rifle to a big tank. The advantage is that you don't have to refill your rifle and can shoot all day without worrying about that. I've heard many say that they wish they could tether but can't afford the expense of an external regulator. Well, guess what? You don't need an external regulator to tether a gun with an internal regulator. All you need is an external tank that has a higher pressure than your internal regulator....but not higher than the safe fill limit of your rifle. If you can fill your rifle to 250 bar....then you can tether a 250 bar external tank and shoot until the pressure in the big tank goes below the internal regulator pressure. Everything you need to do this is already owned by pretty much every pcp owner. Don't expect your scores to go up when you start tethering unless you were prone to shooting below your internal regulator pressure, before. Your enjoyment factor will increase, though.



How about remote triggers? Man, those things are so unfair. Let's look at the reality of this for a bit. First off, we should examine the top scores and see what kind of trigger system they used. In the pellet class, all of the top club scores and national champions used a mechanical trigger. Wait, how can this possibly be? Well, it's clearly because it doesn't actually provide an accuracy advantage over operating a mechanical trigger on the rifle. The guns that have the remote trigger (Thomas) are the same guns that have the mechanical triggers that have shot higher scores.... by the very same people. In reality the remote trigger guns are equally as accurate...but certainly not more accurate. The remote triggers are a convenient way of firing the gun from a comfortable position. That's the big advantage....however, that big advantage doesn't show up on the target.



Lastly, we have the very common "he's not even touching the gun" comment. This one is hard to figure out because anyone can decide to not touch their gun if they want to. Often the first comment is followed up with something about how if the shooters cheek, hands, and shoulder isn't on the gun than they aren't really shooting it. In BR....There are no extra points for someone that hangs on to their rifle. There are no points deducted from someone that doesn't. The game of precision BR was invented to showcase the most accurate rifles. The job of the shooter is to manage his equipment and read the wind to make the best holdoff.... which will make the most of the rifle...every shot. Air rifle BR is not about who can hold the rifle still and interact with it the most. The guys that have the most accurate rifles and the best wind reading skills win...always.



N50 could change the rules to disallow mechanical rests, remote triggers, tethering...and require the shooter to make cheek, shoulder, and hand contact with the gun. This could possibly attract a bunch of new shooters. The problem is that the exact same guys with the exact same rifles will still be at the top of the leaderboard...and eventually the new shooters will figure that out and leave anyway. Most people don't stay very long in precision BR because it's very difficult to be competitive with those that have put in the effort. That's the bottom line.



If you don't compete in precision BR because you don't have the fancy support equipment and believe that you cannot be competitive without it....you are not seeing the real picture. If you stay in the game long enough to become competitive...you will come to the realization that everything I've written above is spot on.



Mike
 
Great comments Mike, as always. Learning to read the wind is like a teenager learning to date - sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. The important thing is learning what you did last time and what to do the next time. I'm 75 and still learning...the wind reading part that is.
 
Take away the specifics (rests, tethering, etc) and the same is true for just about any competitive shooting event. I'm not so sure the equipment isn't just an excuse. A lot of new guys show up to their first match expecting to show us all how to shoot. When they see how deep the waters really are they quit. Some watch a match or two and quit without trying. Both types are trying to preserve the belief that they're "good shots". A few gracefully eat their crow, continue to compete, practice, study, and do the work to attain a level of competence that they're pleased with.

GsT
 
Take away the specifics (rests, tethering, etc) and the same is true for just about any competitive shooting event. I'm not so sure the equipment isn't just an excuse. A lot of new guys show up to their first match expecting to show us all how to shoot. When they see how deep the waters really are they quit. Some watch a match or two and quit without trying. Both types are trying to preserve the belief that they're "good shots". A few gracefully eat their crow, continue to compete, practice, study, and do the work to attain a level of competence that they're pleased with.

GsT
I have developed a fondness for the taste of crow.

One more thing I might add.. A person can get "Too" wrapped up in it all. This completely takes all the fun out of it. Thats where I currently reside. Haven't pulled a trigger of any sort since Raton. I may become a spectator.
 
I have developed a fondness for the taste of crow.

One more thing I might add.. A person can get "Too" wrapped up in it all. This completely takes all the fun out of it. Thats where I currently reside. Haven't pulled a trigger of any sort since Raton. I may become a spectator.
I have done the same. Had to take a hiatus and come back with a better attitude and remind myself that I compete for fun - nobody is paying me, there's little to win. If it's not fun, it doesn't make sense to do it. Find the place you're happy. I still like to compete, but I don't get wrapped around the axle about it. (Anymore...)

GsT
 
I have developed a fondness for the taste of crow.

One more thing I might add.. A person can get "Too" wrapped up in it all. This completely takes all the fun out of it. Thats where I currently reside. Haven't pulled a trigger of any sort since Raton. I may become a spectator.
I think the spectator idea is not a good one. 😀
 
I'm making this thread to address some of the misconceptions that inexperienced shooters have when they come to their first N50 or USARB type precision BR match ...or when they first get acquainted with an experienced and accomplished precision air BR shooter. Clubs can exist where all of the shooters at the club are inexperienced and they are usually very happy shooting with each other until an experienced shooter shows up and upsets the established balance. The experienced shooter will usually have much more specialized equipment and it will be the first thing to come under the lens of the inexperienced.



What am I referring to when I say specialized equipment?



I'm talking about things that make life easier for the precision shooter. One of the main items in this category is the rest setup. New shooters often use items like sand bags or bipods to support the rifle because they are things they already have or can at least obtain with a low investment cost. The low cost items are fully able to support a rifle properly to make an accurate shot, but lack the ability to easily move to the next bull without a lot of wiggling, squeezing, and general fiddling to get the crosshair aligned and gun settled for the next shot. Here is where the mechanical front rest comes in to play. With a mechanical front rest....you can simple turn a knob or move a joystick to position yourself at the next bull. The accuracy of the gun is not improved in any way over the more modest means of support , but the convenience factor is improved dramatically. Will this improved convenience factor result in better scores? Maybe, if you are an inexperienced shooter. The reason for this is because you will be less likely to take a shot before you are optimally positioned or before the rifle is properly settled. An experienced shooter can shoot the same scores with the low budget items....but since precision BR is something they do a lot of....they don't want to.



Next up is the one piece rest vs the two piece setup. The consensus among people that have no experience with the one piece in air rifle BR is that it will surely produce higher scores. They mostly think that because some disciplines have rules that exclude the one piece setup and they apply the standard logic of thinking that if something is not allowed it is because it's unfair to anyone that doesn't have it. Most all of the rules in Precision Air Rifle BR were borrowed from established centerfire or rimfire disciplines that existed long before air. The air rifles used in precision air BR are rather anemic compared to even a 22lr rimfire rifle. The leading air rifles in n50 are about 1/2 the power of 22lr. The rifles used in usarb are yet another small fraction of that. There is no performance improvement in a one piece rest vs a two piece in precision air rifle BR. Anyone that claims there is has surely not tested that claim in a proper manner. If you shoot higher scores with a one piece it's probably because you haven't figured out how to properly set up a two piece or are simply careless when doing so. Maybe you have a bind somewhere creating a torque or you are not careful about your bag spacing or something else. Once you set up a one piece you really don't have to think about it again. I prefer a one piece because I can make the trip to and from the bench in one less trip. Rifle in one hand and rest in the other. If I use a two piece I have to make an extra trip. I also like the more rearward position of the elevation and windage controls. I made a thread a while back on my slug gun comparing the scores of a series of cards shot from both my one and two piece setup. Although I actually shot more xs off the 2 piece, they scores were identical. If I had shot 100 cards off each, there would be no significant difference unless I got sloppy on my setup. The 2 piece that runs on sand bags is actually easier to find a good setup using my slug gun than the one piece that uses hard rest points. Some one piece rests have no provision for adjusting the spacing between the front and rear rest points and are completely unsuitable with my slug gun that needs a specific spacing to shoot well. In N50...we made no rules about rest. This was because the guys that made the rules are experienced precision air rifle BR shooters and know there is no actual accuracy advantage to any of the setups in air rifle. Disallowing something would only serve to inconvenience the dedicated guys that keep the game going. The inexperienced guys come and go. Most people will never stay in the game long enough to be competitive.



Tethering is another subject that comes under false judgement. Some new shooters believe that there is somehow a score advantage to tethering your rifle to a big tank. The advantage is that you don't have to refill your rifle and can shoot all day without worrying about that. I've heard many say that they wish they could tether but can't afford the expense of an external regulator. Well, guess what? You don't need an external regulator to tether a gun with an internal regulator. All you need is an external tank that has a higher pressure than your internal regulator....but not higher than the safe fill limit of your rifle. If you can fill your rifle to 250 bar....then you can tether a 250 bar external tank and shoot until the pressure in the big tank goes below the internal regulator pressure. Everything you need to do this is already owned by pretty much every pcp owner. Don't expect your scores to go up when you start tethering unless you were prone to shooting below your internal regulator pressure, before. Your enjoyment factor will increase, though.



How about remote triggers? Man, those things are so unfair. Let's look at the reality of this for a bit. First off, we should examine the top scores and see what kind of trigger system they used. In the pellet class, all of the top club scores and national champions used a mechanical trigger. Wait, how can this possibly be? Well, it's clearly because it doesn't actually provide an accuracy advantage over operating a mechanical trigger on the rifle. The guns that have the remote trigger (Thomas) are the same guns that have the mechanical triggers that have shot higher scores.... by the very same people. In reality the remote trigger guns are equally as accurate...but certainly not more accurate. The remote triggers are a convenient way of firing the gun from a comfortable position. That's the big advantage....however, that big advantage doesn't show up on the target.



Lastly, we have the very common "he's not even touching the gun" comment. This one is hard to figure out because anyone can decide to not touch their gun if they want to. Often the first comment is followed up with something about how if the shooters cheek, hands, and shoulder isn't on the gun than they aren't really shooting it. In BR....There are no extra points for someone that hangs on to their rifle. There are no points deducted from someone that doesn't. The game of precision BR was invented to showcase the most accurate rifles. The job of the shooter is to manage his equipment and read the wind to make the best holdoff.... which will make the most of the rifle...every shot. Air rifle BR is not about who can hold the rifle still and interact with it the most. The guys that have the most accurate rifles and the best wind reading skills win...always.



N50 could change the rules to disallow mechanical rests, remote triggers, tethering...and require the shooter to make cheek, shoulder, and hand contact with the gun. This could possibly attract a bunch of new shooters. The problem is that the exact same guys with the exact same rifles will still be at the top of the leaderboard...and eventually the new shooters will figure that out and leave anyway. Most people don't stay very long in precision BR because it's very difficult to be competitive with those that have put in the effort. That's the bottom line.



If you don't compete in precision BR because you don't have the fancy support equipment and believe that you cannot be competitive without it....you are not seeing the real picture. If you stay in the game long enough to become competitive...you will come to the realization that everything I've written above is spot on.



Mike
My opinion on BR shooting using so called specialized equipment...
I think that anyone that has these massive lead sleds to mount there rifle in for stability has no beans under there zipper lol.Just about any trained monkey can set up a rifle in a sled of there choice and make good groups. They technically are NOT shooting there rifle!!!! take there sleds away and see how they shoot.. all shooting fundamentals are out the window.. All matches should be bipod and bag. That It! Even the playing field.. Cause lets be realistic. shooting off a bag and bipod is totally different the out of a sled. Yes a sled had purpose. for like zeroing your rifle to minimize fault or tuning purposes..
This is just my opinion so sorry whom ever i may offend.
 
My opinion on BR shooting using so called specialized equipment...
I think that anyone that has these massive lead sleds to mount there rifle in for stability has no beans under there zipper lol.Just about any trained monkey can set up a rifle in a sled of there choice and make good groups. They technically are NOT shooting there rifle!!!! take there sleds away and see how they shoot.. all shooting fundamentals are out the window.. All matches should be bipod and bag. That It! Even the playing field.. Cause lets be realistic. shooting off a bag and bipod is totally different the out of a sled. Yes a sled had purpose. for like zeroing your rifle to minimize fault or tuning purposes..
This is just my opinion so sorry whom ever i may offend.
Tony, this post was entirely created to address the ignorance that most shooters have about precision BR. Your opinion is incredibly popular among those that have tried it out but weren't competitive....and most that have never tried.

Bags and bipods won't change a thing for the guys that are already winning. Setting the game up to appease the ignorant would only serve to lessen the number of shooters that we already have in the long term.

Mike
 
Tony, this post was entirely created to address the ignorance that most shooters have about precision BR. Your opinion is incredibly popular among those that have tried it out but weren't competitive....and most that have never tried.

Bags and bipods won't change a thing for the guys that are already winning. Setting the game up to appease the ignorant would only serve to lessen the number of shooters that we already have in the long term.

Mike
Mike. I am very competent and understand .. I agree. one can not just buy a gun, zero at 50, collect some data and go win.. it does not work like that.
And a sled over a bag and bipod does make all the difference.. You actually have to touch your rifle not just let it sit in a brace and oh so gently pull the trigger. You have to use all ypur fundamentals. Thats not competing. that is someone using aid because they can not shoot that well, or have a underling health concern where the reticle act as a blood presure bpm counter..
All competitions or events should have a equipment standard.
 
Mike. I am very competent and understand .. I agree. one can not just buy a gun, zero at 50, collect some data and go win.. it does not work like that.
And a sled over a bag and bipod does make all the difference.. You actually have to touch your rifle not just let it sit in a brace and oh so gently pull the trigger. You have to use all ypur fundamentals. Thats not competing. that is someone using aid because they can not shoot that well, or have a underling health concern where the reticle act as a blood presure bpm counter..
All competitions or events should have a equipment standard.
just my opinion. I do admire what you do in the airgun industry tho. But thats why pcps are fun. Something for everyone.. all different opinions and takes.
 
If I were to play golf with Tiger Woods, I can't possibly expect him to play with putt-putt balls and ladies clubs just so I could have a hope of competing with him.

The point of competing is try to do your BEST, not artificially handicap the other guy so you can feel better about your lack of competitive ability.

Play with the big dogs or stay in the porch.
 
I am competing with myself only - unfortunately.... because at my local gun club the PB's are the thing and airguns considered a sheiss plinking.
I started my airguns BR shooting with bipods but very soon throw that garbage away and started using tripods.
And that wasn't enough, I built myself a one piece rest initially for tuning, but very soon started using it actively.
Ended up with a two piece setup and one piece setup, and swapping there and back almost with every visit to my Bench.
I am also shooting my 308 f-class gun from a bench at 100-200-300 M's, with a combination of front and rear rest.
I am very results oriented and I can say to bipod owners that bipods are waste of time and money if scoring paper is in your mind. This has nothing to do with "artificially handicaping" the other guy, if you think you can beat the scores you feel free and use whatever bipod you like.
I am not trying to convince anybody, you gotta try it yourself.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Loufish
Tony, this post was entirely created to address the ignorance that most shooters have about precision BR. Your opinion is incredibly popular among those that have tried it out but weren't competitive....and most that have never tried.

Bags and bipods won't change a thing for the guys that are already winning. Setting the game up to appease the ignorant would only serve to lessen the number of shooters that we already have in the long term.

Mike
Post kinda seemed like
If I were to play golf with Tiger Woods, I can't possibly expect him to play with putt-putt balls and ladies clubs just so I could have a hope of competing with him.

The point of competing is try to do your BEST, not artificially handicap the other guy so you can feel better about your lack of competitive ability.

Play with the big dogs or stay in the porch.
lol. The ones useing sleds are kinda the handycapped. Thats not shooting imo..
So if you did play golf with tiger woods you would need a nice mechanical contraption to make sure you had a perfect swing everytime so you could compete. Its a shooting aid that helps shooters shoot better. Aka a handycap. Same principal.
Just saying there is more to this then the so called 'real shooters' . Yes not everyone is a good shot and most know it unless ego sets in the way.
And how everyone going to play with the big dogs when you all start barking to get off the porch?
 
I built myself a one piece rest initially for tuning, but very soon started using it actively.
This is my winter project. I want a one piece that will satisfy me but can't afford a good one, so I am to build it. I have a big Miller & various drill presses etc.. No mill but I'll still pull something off (y)
Should be fun.
I look at BR sorta like F1, if your not on the bleeding edge your out..