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Mythbusting Precision BR

I would like to interrupt the pissing match and get back to the original point.

In the original scenario... a top ranked shooter shows up to a local club of average joes. The shooter shows up with top of the line 'professional' BR setup and proceeds to post way better scores than the average joes could hope for.
Would that shooter still win without the "professional" setup...probably/definitely BUT that is not the point. It is an issue of impression, which usually affects emotions more than truth.

In this situation I think the shooter could have some awareness and dress down for the situation.

im·pres·sion
noun
  1. an idea, feeling, or opinion about something or someone, especially one formed without conscious thought or on the basis of little evidence:

 
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What are some of the myths regarding barrel tuners for BR?

If your gun won't shoot well without a tuner, it's not going to shoot well with one. Tuners don't fix things. Tuners are famous for producing fantastic small number groups sporadically....only to make very large high number groups.
 
So did 1st place and first overall. So far it's never been won off a 1 piece....or sled.
You can win with an inexpensive Cowen rest & a bag - it does not have to be pricey
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Unfortunately Cowan and his students no longer make them. The Schools political correctness killed it.
 
So my measly 2 cents worth is --- one piece, two piece, joy stick, tripod, bipod. I tried them all. The only thing that worked for me is 1) shooting a good rifle that will presumably go to your anticipated POI, 2) finding pellets that work for you rifle/barrel and 3) spending a lot of time learning what the wind will do to my shot. To me that's what benchrest is.
 
IMO Mike is right. If you have a decent rifle and learn to read the wind you can do well.

For example here are two 5 shot 30 yd groups shot today while BBQing some lamb:


Here is the target:


And this was the setup:


Yes the log was used as a front rest
The rear rest was my shoulder and cheek weld
The scope was 9X
Yes I held my breath and could see my pulse in the scope
You shouldn't shoot this way in a match, but you could
 
No...
This is benchrest. It's brutal truth.
lol. This is why most sports have divisions. To try to ensure EVERYONE has a good time. I am sure Tiger Woods could win every amateur tournament and feel pretty good about himself. In reality... he is just being a Richard...

This is just an opinion from someone on the outside looking in. You may not agree with it, (I really don't care) but it is a valid opinion.

This thread is a great reminder that competitions bring out the 'best' in people. lolololololol
 
lol. This is why most sports have divisions. To try to ensure EVERYONE has a good time. I am sure Tiger Woods could win every amateur tournament and feel pretty good about himself. In reality... he is just being a Richard...

This is just an opinion from someone on the outside looking in. You may not agree with it, (I really don't care) but it is a valid opinion.

This thread is a great reminder that competitions bring out the 'best' in people. lolololololol
Your outside perspective logic is extremely common. It's just flawed.

That's actually why I made this thread.

The game is about using the most accurate rifle to shoot in the wind and put the shot in the middle....and see who can do it the most.

None of the contentious items make the rifle more accurate...although everyone who's never tried the items believe they do.

The items make the sport more enjoyable...especially to those that spend unreal amounts of time practicing.

Making a class that disallows these items might allow those that are new and ignorant to the sport to have a place to have fun and enjoy the game in their own bubble...for a short time. Eventually, a talented shooter with a good rifle will decide to shoot the new class. That's when the fun is over for everyone else.

Maybe someone can figure out how to disallow accurate rifies and guys that can read the wind from a game that requires accurate rifles and wind reading skills?

To boil it all down...the biggest problem people have is that they don't understand that you can't learn to read the minute subtleties of the wind with a rifle that isn't accurate. The novice always thinks he's gonna learn with something less. He might learn the generalities of the wind...but he will also develop a ton of wrong information about the finer points. The finer points win the game.

Mike
 
I enjoy watching Erik Cortina interviews with world class benchrest shooters. The amount of knowledge these guys have & the time they put in to be tippy top is nuts. Listening to Jack Neary go off about reading target impact is eye opening in itself. The entire mentality of hard core Benchrest shooters is amazing, the common drive for perfection blows my mind. Good stuff !!!!!
 
Your outside perspective logic is extremely common. It's just flawed.

That's actually why I made this thread.

The game is about using the most accurate rifle to shoot in the wind and put the shot in the middle....and see who can do it the most.

None of the contentious items make the rifle more accurate...although everyone who's never tried the items believe they do.

The items make the sport more enjoyable...especially to those that spend unreal amounts of time practicing.

Making a class that disallows these items might allow those that are new and ignorant to the sport to have a place to have fun and enjoy the game in their own bubble...for a short time. Eventually, a talented shooter with a good rifle will decide to shoot the new class. That's when the fun is over for everyone else.

Maybe someone can figure out how to disallow accurate rifies and guys that can read the wind from a game that requires accurate rifles and wind reading skills?

To boil it all down...the biggest problem people have is that they don't understand that you can't learn to read the minute subtleties of the wind with a rifle that isn't accurate. The novice always thinks he's gonna learn with something less. He might learn the generalities of the wind...but he will also develop a ton of wrong information about the finer points. The finer points win the game.

Mike
It doesn't matter if it is flawed. Perception is based on feelings. Logic, Reason and Feelings are not compatible.

I don't have a dog in this fight I am just offering a viewpoint. I have VERY limited shooting experience. (A total newbie)

When YOU show up with your gear... people are going to think a certain way. One 'perspective' is that You are showing up with a bunch of crutches. You can get upset about that until the rapture comes but THAT is going to be the perspective to some. Get used to it because it isn't going to change.

A big issue is that it seems 2 different matches are being played. Some people think the match is about a 'human touch' shooting skill... and different skills are more important to others. ( I am not picking sides, just an observation).

On the flip side... YOU aren't responsible for how another person feels. As long as you are playing within the rules.... bleep them.

I still believe divisions would be the best scenario, but I also understand the sport isn't big enough to support different divisions. (except for the very large events).
Your outside perspective logic is extremely common. It's just flawed.

That's actually why I made this thread.

The game is about using the most accurate rifle to shoot in the wind and put the shot in the middle....and see who can do it the most.

None of the contentious items make the rifle more accurate...although everyone who's never tried the items believe they do.

The items make the sport more enjoyable...especially to those that spend unreal amounts of time practicing.

Making a class that disallows these items might allow those that are new and ignorant to the sport to have a place to have fun and enjoy the game in their own bubble...for a short time. Eventually, a talented shooter with a good rifle will decide to shoot the new class. That's when the fun is over for everyone else.

Maybe someone can figure out how to disallow accurate rifies and guys that can read the wind from a game that requires accurate rifles and wind reading skills?

To boil it all down...the biggest problem people have is that they don't understand that you can't learn to read the minute subtleties of the wind with a rifle that isn't accurate. The novice always thinks he's gonna learn with something less. He might learn the generalities of the wind...but he will also develop a ton of wrong information about the finer points. The finer points win the game.

Mike
That is the thing about perspective. The truth is irrelevant. Perspectives are based on feelings. Logic, Reason and Feelings are seldom compatible.

When you show up with your rig the average Joe is going to feel a way about it. Some will see it as a goal... others may think you are a sandbagger.

If I were competing and you showed up with your rig/achievements I would not even consider you my competition, it wouldn't affect me a bit. I am not a competitive person and you are completely out of my league. Other people that take competition seriously may get butthurt. That is just something you are going to have to accept. You can try to explain and explain to them but in the words of Simon and Garfunkel... "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".

Divisions works great in the big matches. The average Joe's feel they can compete. The average Joe that wants to be considered a Pro, has a goal to work towards.

I understand your local matches aren't going to have enough 'pro's but they could have a beginner and advanced division. Many sports have multiple divisions. It is a great way to hold interest, create goals and build the sport.

As I think I previously said, I don't have a dog in this fight, I just like a good debate.
 
It doesn't matter if it is flawed. Perception is based on feelings. Logic, Reason and Feelings are not compatible.

I don't have a dog in this fight I am just offering a viewpoint. I have VERY limited shooting experience. (A total newbie)

When YOU show up with your gear... people are going to think a certain way. One 'perspective' is that You are showing up with a bunch of crutches. You can get upset about that until the rapture comes but THAT is going to be the perspective to some. Get used to it because it isn't going to change.

A big issue is that it seems 2 different matches are being played. Some people think the match is about a 'human touch' shooting skill... and different skills are more important to others. ( I am not picking sides, just an observation).

On the flip side... YOU aren't responsible for how another person feels. As long as you are playing within the rules.... bleep them.

I still believe divisions would be the best scenario, but I also understand the sport isn't big enough to support different divisions. (except for the very large events).

That is the thing about perspective. The truth is irrelevant. Perspectives are based on feelings. Logic, Reason and Feelings are seldom compatible.

When you show up with your rig the average Joe is going to feel a way about it. Some will see it as a goal... others may think you are a sandbagger.

If I were competing and you showed up with your rig/achievements I would not even consider you my competition, it wouldn't affect me a bit. I am not a competitive person and you are completely out of my league. Other people that take competition seriously may get butthurt. That is just something you are going to have to accept. You can try to explain and explain to them but in the words of Simon and Garfunkel... "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".

Divisions works great in the big matches. The average Joe's feel they can compete. The average Joe that wants to be considered a Pro, has a goal to work towards.

I understand your local matches aren't going to have enough 'pro's but they could have a beginner and advanced division. Many sports have multiple divisions. It is a great way to hold interest, create goals and build the sport.

As I think I previously said, I don't have a dog in this fight, I just like a good debate.
The rules define what N50 is. If you want to shoot N50 you shoot by the rules or you don't shoot.

The N50 Sportsman Class is for factory rifles using any scope and nearly any type of rest including bipods.

My $1200 CZ Grand Finale with a $2500 March 50 power scope using a PQP 1-piece rest qualifies for Sportsman Class.

It is not my fault if someone shoots a gun and rest set up that is NOT as competitive.

So please stop suggesting N50 needs a new division just so someone's scores can suck less.

If they want to be competitive in N50 Sportsman Class, then they should reduce their alcohol intake and use the money they save to build a competitive N50 Sportsman Class rig, it is actually that f#%king simple.

Here is a link to the summary of N50 rules:
 
Troy...that's not fair that you use such an expensive scope. That's got to be a tremendous advantage over some poor guy that only has a 350$ s2 Sightron. 😀

People who would cry unfair about your rest spend more money on bipods and those stupid monopod rear things.

Mike
In all honestly, let's say both you and I along with the other top N50 PCP shooters at your level were at the same match and a number of shooters in Sportsman felt I had an unfair advantage as my Grand Finale is really a modern day BRNO and a BRNO is not allowed in ARA Factory class.

I would be nice and move up to Proclass,

1) so l could say I actually shot Proclass directly competing with you

and

2) That my Sportsman Class 22lr and I scored a 3 card aggregate that was within 200 points of yours.