Umarex Accuracy VS FPS consistency (Notos and Avenger)

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TQM

TQM

Member
Dec 16, 2022
30
26
Texas, USA
Hello!

I have had an Air Venturi Avenger (Bullpup) for a while now, and have been reasonably happy with it (more below), but I recently purchased a Umarex Notos. It has some things I really like, but also seems to have an accuracy issue.

Notos - I love the size and weight. Additionally, the left cocking lever I find nice (I shoot lefty due to a left dominant eye). I'm impressed with the regulator, and am getting very good FPS consistency across the 21 or so shots. It is almost always +/- 1 or 2 FPS across the string (around 762 using CPHPs). The issue I am having is accuracy. Five shot groups at 25 yards are commonly 2" or more. I haven't done an exhaustive test of pellets, but multiple different types and manufacturers seem to more or less have the same issue. The best I have ever gotten is ~1" group, but with multiple on the 2.5-3" happen too. This is from bench rest (bags and a rear squeeze bag), with a 9x scope. I can pretty confidently say its not just me missing (I do fine with other pellet guns). Also, this is using the single pellet loading tray (because the magazine is surprisingly bad - I'll have to get aftermarket ones). It is also not just fliers causing the broad groups. Groups are usually shotgun pattern (e.g. near the center, 1" high and left, 1" low and right, 3/4" low left, etc.). I have reached out to Umarex customer support, but haven't heard back yet (probably understandable due to the weekend and time of year). I don't think I am being unreasonable expecting better groups at 25 yards (Umarex pellets are among the ones I tested, so they can't just blame the pellets :) ). Since the FPS are so consistent, does this suggest a barrel or crown issue? Did I get a lemon? (most people seem to rave about the accuracy)

Avenger Bullpup - As I mentioned, I am generally happy with my Avenger. I can't rave about it being a tack driver, but I've found a point where it is acceptable. I've settled on 2000psi on the regulator and two turns of the hammer spring for CPHP. This gives me around 925 FPS, and 10 shot groups at 25 yards that are generally touching (the CPHP sometimes give a flier, but most in a group). Not a "single ragged hole" that some people boast, but often a single large hole about the size of a quarter. I'd like it to be better, but I've settled for that using CPHPs (yes I could get better pellets, but I like getting them locally for cheap). I've tried other pellets, without really significant improvements (except for not having a random flier). I have been a bit disappointed with the regulator of the Avenger though. FPS have a much broader range that I expected. If I shoot a 10 shot group (3-5 sec between shots), the FPS at the best of times the spread is 10-15. It is nowhere as consistent in FPS as the Notos. Additionally, in between magazines (when there might be a few minute before shooting again), the FPS can jump as much as 40-50. This is noticeable in the regulator pressure, which can creep up slowly to a max is you wait longer between shots. Watching it carefully, sometimes is "resets" the pressure within a second or so, while other times it rises slowly and takes 10+ seconds to stabilize. By stabilize, I mean over a short time. If I wait a few minutes, it will very slowly creep up a bit more. With it set at 2000psi, if I wait overnight, the regulator will usually go up to 2300psi or so. Additionally, I get what I think is a reasonably significant drift as the cylinder pressure goes down. When set to 2000psi with the cylinder at 4300psi, if I shoot down to 2500psi, the regulator will only show 1500-1700 (not always consistent, but consistently lower than the 2000psi set). This means that while I get 100+ shots on the regulator, speeds averages slowly drop over the string. Overall spreads for even 80 shots can be as much as 70-80.

Hopefully Umarex can help with the accuracy issue I am seeing, because I really like the Notos otherwise. It just struck me as strange that it is so much more consistent in FPS than the Avenger but significantly worse in accuracy. If that can be fixed, I'll definitely be shooting it a lot. I have been spoiled by the Avengers 100+ shots though. 20-21 between fills is nowhere near enough. I'm going to have to get a reserve bottle to do refills, because 20 shots is not enough at a sitting...
 
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ok..I shortened my notos and I found two things in the process..or 3.. it didn't have a good crown so recrown helped a lot.. now it's also not choked but either way it shoots better than factory.. it's got a 4" moderator in the shroud so the barrel is actually 4" shorter,I wanted it for a pistol..
there's also a place already drilled and tapped for a second set screw but you have to drill a little hole in the picayinny rail so you can put a Allen wrench in to tighten it up.. makes the barrel much more secure.. I drilled the hole just big enough for the Allen wrench and got the screw in the threaded hole and then put the rail on that way it stays a small hole in the rail..
other issue was when I pulled the barrel it has two o rings and one was completely crumbled and missing parts.. the other one crumbled when I touched it.. I assume they were poor quality and deteriorating before I got it from pyramid air..
they are metric, the whole gun is metric.. but they are not a common size..
another member here, good guy.. firewalker ordered a batch of them and I was able to get some from him.. fits and better quality..
I was so frustrated trying to find the barrel o rings that I almost chucked the barrel back in the lathe and made standard o rings.but much easier just getting ones to fit from firewalker.. he does a lot of modifications on the notos and zelos..
I'll attach a couple pictures of the notos I did..
I never installed the stock, just open factory sights and pistol grip
Mark

IMG_20240122_165321112.jpg


IMG_20240122_161502973.jpg


IMG_20240122_165247164.jpg


IMG_20240122_165309036.jpg
 
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Ranchibi said:
Like said above about cleaning the barrel and also check all screws and the barrel assembly screws, a friends got loose then tightened them up and voila, accuracy was spot on again!
Click to expand...
I did clean the barrel after the first shooting session. The parches came out dirty, not horrible but dirtier than is should be for something the doesn't burn powder. The cleaning didn't do anything for the accuracy though. I didn't disassemble it or check any further. I'll check screws now.

While I was waiting for Umarex to respond, I decided to contact Pyramyd Air (where I bought it). I did a online chat with them and explained what I was seeing. Their response was an RMA, and did I want a replacement or a refund? I went with replacement since I really did like it other than the accuracy. Hopefully I get luckier on the second round.
markhooper said:
ok..I shortened my notos and I found two things in the process..or 3.. it didn't have a good crown so recrown helped a lot.. now it's also not choked but either way it shoots better than factory.. it's got a 4" moderator in the shroud so the barrel is actually 4" shorter,I wanted it for a pistol..
there's also a place already drilled and tapped for a second set screw but you have to drill a little hole in the picayinny rail so you can put a Allen wrench in to tighten it up.. makes the barrel much more secure.. I drilled the hole just big enough for the Allen wrench and got the screw in the threaded hole and then put the rail on that way it stays a small hole in the rail..
other issue was when I pulled the barrel it has two o rings and one was completely crumbled and missing parts.. the other one crumbled when I touched it.. I assume they were poor quality and deteriorating before I got it from pyramid air..
they are metric, the whole gun is metric.. but they are not a common size..
another member here, good guy.. firewalker ordered a batch of them and I was able to get some from him.. fits and better quality..
I was so frustrated trying to find the barrel o rings that I almost chucked the barrel back in the lathe and made standard o rings.but much easier just getting ones to fit from firewalker.. he does a lot of modifications on the notos and zelos..
I'll attach a couple pictures of the notos I did..
I never installed the stock, just open factory sights and pistol grip
Mark
Click to expand...

That looks pretty cool. Hopefully my next one is good, but I will probably use it as is at least through the warrantee period. After that, who knows :cool: I'm envious of your lathe. I'm moving about every three years for work (military), so getting heavy equipment (mill and lathe) is out until I am done. As soon as I am in a permanent place, I'm hoping to have a mill and lathe be among the first purchases.

Thank everyone for the replies!
 
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Complaining about accuracy while insisting on shooting CPHP is inconsistent. There is no airgun that won't shoot better with another pellet. Cheap pellets are just not going to be the most accurate. I am not arguing your first Notos was OK, just suggesting you need to seriously look at other pellets if you are serious about accuracy.
 
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also make sure your scope is attached above the receiver.. the rest of the shroud over the barrel has too much flexibility..
and the o rings but that would likely show lower power and variation.. mine only had one barrel set screw and it was not even snug.. it's worth it to get a second set screw from the hardware store.. much more secure.. the barrel is actually what is supporting the entire shroud.. the shroud does little to nothing to support the barrel.
Mark
 
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JimD said:
Complaining about accuracy while insisting on shooting CPHP is inconsistent. There is no airgun that won't shoot better with another pellet. Cheap pellets are just not going to be the most accurate. I am not arguing your first Notos was OK, just suggesting you need to seriously look at other pellets if you are serious about accuracy.
Click to expand...
I totally understand the shortfalls of CPHP. As I mentioned in this case, I tried multiple pellets (weight and manufacturer), with all having the same accuracy issues. If it had been just the CPHP that had issues, and other pellets were accurate, I would have just assumed it didn't like CPHP at all end up using something else. As for the why I even try for CPHP usage, I have my own "logic" for that. I'm not expecting CPHP to provide premium pellet result, but I am also not looking to shoot past 25 yards, and not at pests either. You don't seem me post brags about my grouping at 100 yards, because I haven't even tried it past 25 yard. For me, my airguns are for fun in the back yard. I can come home and shoot 100 rounds on a whim, which I can't do with powder burners (have to go to the range, ammo is expensive, etc.) I'm not pesting or precision target shooting most of the time. Its often just destroying a few soda cans for the enjoyment of it. My experience with the Avenger and CPHPs is as you said, I have other pellets that are more accurate in it. That said, I was able to find regulator and hammer settings that made it acceptable for me (usually within about the size of a quarter or so at 25 yard). It took a little experimenting to find where is seemed happiest (but I enjoyed the experimenting). Now I can shoot soda cans for fun, its accurate enough at my 25 yard range, and cost less than 1/4 of the more accurate pellets. If any starlings or house sparrows venture into my backyard, I use the better pellets for a more assured clean kill :). For cans, I'm happier burning through a few hundred CPHP at a time for simple fun.
Shaky2 said:
I agree it could be the Crosman pellets that's causing poor accuracy. My Notos sure doesn't like them. Mine shoots the Jts 18.1 with good accuracy. It also could be a scope problem especially if it's not a A.O. scope
Click to expand...
I'll have to see if the replacement likes CPHP at all (some people seem to claim theirs does). If I'm lucky, it will be okay with them at 25 yards. I'm pretty sure its not a scope problem. It is an A.O. scope (UTG Bugbuster 3-9X32), which has proved itself in working order on other airguns as well as powder burning .22s. My Avenger has the large 4-16X44 FFP Veyron because its already big and heavy and I pretty much only shoot it from stationary positions. With the notos being so much smaller and lighter, I wanted to go with a smaller simpler scope. As noted below, it was on the receiver, not the shroud part of the rail.

Thanks everyone!
 
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I received my Notos from PA less than a month ago. With Firewalkers help, I got a moderator insert and two magazines from member Tango Sierra. It shoots very well at the 25 yards I have in my backyard, with a good number of groups about 5/16". Best pellet I have found is the JSB Hades, followed by the H&N Terminator, and lastly the Predator Polymag Shorts. The regular length Predator Polymags did not work in the factory magazine, but I may eventually try them using the single shot tray. Ted Bier also recommended the NSA .217 23 grain slug. I had a 23 grain slug sampler from NSA and shot the .216, .2165, .217, .2175, and .218 23 grain. The .217 23 grain was the best, but the .2165 was very close. By far, the best slug in my gun was the 22 grain Varmint Knockers I bought on Fleabay. At 14 cents apiece, though, you may as well be shooting a .22 rimfire, so it's not a slug for plinking. The FX Hybrid shot acceptably, but are also on the expensive side. The CPHP did not shoot too well out of my Notos.
 
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