22 or 25 for squirrels
- Thread starter Airgunner79
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That's got to generate a lot of pink mist and eye popping experiences. Hitting them with 30gr slugs at that speed does a number. Must share results.
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I'm still trying for some consistency, I'm pushing that Raptor close to the edge. The Raptor does well with the 30gr's I wanted to play with the 49's just to see if I could do it. Still trying to find the right balance of pressure, valve and hammer spring, Have another 450 slugs coming in. If I get it decent I'll head over to my permission on a decent day and see if some pop up.
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FPE is a universal standard we can use to express the power level of an airgun. I think its more simple to understand for people instead of some random combo of pellet and speed. If you know how much fpe a rifle will produce you have a good idea what speeds you can get with almost any projectile in your similar setup. Its kinda like MOA vs MIL though really. Different ways of measuring the same thing with different maths. Some people have an easier time grasping one over the other I think. Maybe I will start using Joules just to get under your skin hehe
That being said to give my 2 quid on the OP question, I like to use both 22Cal and 25Cal. My 22Cal setup shoots Hades and 17.5g Nielsen slugs in the 950fps range and smashes squirrels due to the high velocity. My 25Cal setup shoots Nielsen slugs in the mid 30s at about 1005fps currently. I feel comfortable taking a responsible shot at a ground squirrel out to about 200yds. I like the 22Cal for the high speeds at lower power levels ~35fpe and it drops off fast so its less dangerous to property. The 25Cal is better at retaining energy, and it starts out with a lot more. Makes it better for bigger critters like skunks and racoons etc, but smashes squirrels too. If I could only pick one I would go with the 22Cal, as I feel its the most efficient in just about all aspects.
And I also have to say that a 20fpe 177 will do some great work with the new 10g MK3 version of the JSB Knockout slugs. I have 2 pcps that will push them to 1000fps and they wallop squirrels dumping all their energy with few pass throughs so far.
I was shooting 26gr slaps slugs at 1045fps in my 25 p3. They just don’t run that’s for. One hell of a pop!
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While I agree FPE is a good universal way of understanding a guns power capabilities and much better than how Walmart advertises their pellet guns, I feel guys embraced it and took it too far. If a guy can’t or has trouble understanding a 17.5gr Slug going 950fps and would rather get a FPE number and guess what projectile you’re shooting, he needs to be on a space station or curing cancer. You stated a 35fpe .22 drops off fast. But there is a considerable difference in how fast a 17.5 slug and a 14.3 pellet drops off at 35fpe. Most topics like this I feel benefit from specifics, not these general terms we see as the cool new number on our radars.FPE is a universal standard we can use to express the power level of an airgun. I think its more simple to understand for people instead of some random combo of pellet and speed. If you know how much fpe a rifle will produce you have a good idea what speeds you can get with almost any projectile in your similar setup. Its kinda like MOA vs MIL though really. Different ways of measuring the same thing with different maths. Some people have an easier time grasping one over the other I think. Maybe I will start using Joules just to get under your skin hehe
That being said to give my 2 quid on the OP question, I like to use both 22Cal and 25Cal. My 22Cal setup shoots Hades and 17.5g Nielsen slugs in the 950fps range and smashes squirrels due to the high velocity. My 25Cal setup shoots Nielsen slugs in the mid 30s at about 1005fps currently. I feel comfortable taking a responsible shot at a ground squirrel out to about 200yds. I like the 22Cal for the high speeds at lower power levels ~35fpe and it drops off fast so its less dangerous to property. The 25Cal is better at retaining energy, and it starts out with a lot more. Makes it better for bigger critters like skunks and racoons etc, but smashes squirrels too. If I could only pick one I would go with the 22Cal, as I feel its the most efficient in just about all aspects.
And I also have to say that a 20fpe 177 will do some great work with the new 10g MK3 version of the JSB Knockout slugs. I have 2 pcps that will push them to 1000fps and they wallop squirrels dumping all their energy with few pass throughs so far.
And I enjoy looking at pictures of guns, not someones piece of kit.
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I've said this before but I will say again I always use a non expanding projectile hunting/pesting. My longest kill I think was a 37 yard shot with my one 177, a P35. Shoots H&N Baracuda Match pellets 880-900 fps. Dropped a big female with one shot and no running. I'm up to 67 now with the three calibers. The only benefit I can see to an expanding projectile is less risk of pass through. And if that's why you use them what about if you miss? If you only shoot in safe directions pass through are no issue. I took a squirrel this week with a gut shot because I miss judged it's position on the limb. I gave it a finisher in the brain but both were with my 177. It just does not require expansion to take small game cleanly but I highly recommend better placement than the shot I just mentioned. I would use a Hades if it was most accurate in my gun and I tested it and judged it's penetration sufficient. But domed work great for me.
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22 would work especially in slugs or heavy hades, 25 I feel just works better for hunting in my years of airgun varmint hunting especially with pellets. So much so I went and bought a 25 pellet shooter that tops out around 850 fps and it does better than my impact with slugs in 22 for most realistic hunting. The extra speed and power in 22 barely makes up for the frontal area of the 25. Just my opinions and I hope they were useful. Edit. 25 is at 43 ft lbs and I shoot it to 100 yards max usually around 65 yards with scary precision. The impact I shoot 65yds and beyond. Typically at starlings 150 yards out. It's more of a pseudo rimfire as set up and my lightest slug is 23 grains. Gun is set up for 31.2 nsa 217 Dia.
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Regardless of .177, .22, .25 I regularly had squirrel make it to a hole in a tree with chest shots. Even when I used 22lr it happened. I only take noggin shots unless I'm .30 or larger which is very rare unless a squirrel happens to show up while hunting a larger quarry.
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Quickly becoming a bigger fan of the .177
My daystate shooting jts 10.3s is insanely accurate. Recently got a hatsan AT44 from JC which is shooting 13gr zan slugs very well at 950 fps. Those little things are very effective. I truly enjoy the trajectory.
How well do those 10gr KOs open up?
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.177 all the way ... Fast, Flat shooting and accurate !!
BTW at @ 15-20 fpe ... they can pass right threw em, any more caliber just not found needed. Placement in upper chest or head required no matter what one shoots !!
BTW at @ 15-20 fpe ... they can pass right threw em, any more caliber just not found needed. Placement in upper chest or head required no matter what one shoots !!
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If you are using a 30 fpe gun or more and having them run you are not placing the shots well. I get very few runners with my 2 under 20 fpe pcps and have only had 2 out of 30 squirrels with my 30-45 fpe pcps. Both were front of chest hits with a 25 that stopped under the skin behind a back leg. My shots were all less than 40 yards.
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I think sometimes the higher power guns zip through without the damage especially in .177/.22 and they get an adrenaline rush and run before they realize they are dead with chest shots. Probably why your Prod works so well. I think those low to mid power guns dump the energy in the animal rather than pass through.
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Yes a Pellet inside there body creates more shock than a pass threw hole
* Talking Trauma Shock .. not necessarily Impact shock
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You should try some of the newer MK3 version of the JSB KO. They look like a coffee mug and have impressed me a lot. I havent recovered one yet, but judging by the smack they do on a squirrel I know they are expanding wonderfully. Even at 900fps they work awesome.
The only thing to consider is they are very short and might not want to feed well in all applications. I have used them in a Maverick with a factory mag, and a Gamo Coyote in a factory mag. So far no feeding issues but I can see some mags having trouble.
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I have a new rifle on the way I will post a bunch of pics soon after I get it all dialed in. Probably the first and only new FX I will ever own.
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I’ve recovered a good many of them and the expansion is not consistent. But there is always some or a lot. Depending on how I hit a squirrel. No head shots for me so I will openly admit that it’s shoot, then watch the show. But I’m batting a thousand with them so far. Can’t ask for more. I think I found the lower edge of the velocity where they are always putting in work. I could go faster with them but there’s the balance of penetration, expansion and air consumption. The bottle on a U2 compact wouldn’t hold enough formula to satisfy a hungry baby. But I still have a great shot count.
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I have a new one on the way also. But I told him to ship it so I can receive it after Christmas. It’s not a FX. I’m currently done with them. They need to go a different direction before they get any more of my money. Done reinventing $2k guns or wondering where my gun was actually made. But I look forward to hearing about your tidy piece of kit and how many joules it can produce.
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I do not see a benefit in killing squirrels from lower powered air rifles. They kill slower if anything. I also need more second shots with them. I keep track, I have the data. I use them in my backyard because they don't carry as far. Without that consideration I would gladly use my 30+ fpe guns exclusively. They almost always shoot through but I see that as a good thing. Two holes bleed out faster than one. Whatever the logic 30+ means a higher percentage of immediate DRT in my experience.
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