Other What if?

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3Crows

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Mar 14, 2022
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Wichita, KS, USA
What if there was a spring gun where the spring tube housing was below the barrel? The entire barrel and breach would sit atop with a small port to the pellet chamber not unlike a PCP at the rear. The pellet gate would also be fully rearward. The gun would be cocked either by an under lever or by the entire barrel to breech assembly. Not only would the rifle be much more compact but the scope would now be located on the barrel, not the breach, and the recoil would be in the correct direction thus no longer (?) requiring air gun rated scopes.

What if cocking used a ratchet system such that cocking could take two, three or even more strokes, depending upon the force of the gas spring or steel spring? Much more powerful springs could be used with longer travel or take half or less effort to cock?

The tube with a spring with a barrel on a hinge at the end is kind of getting old in tooth. As I sit here cleaning the barrel of my Marlin 1895. My interest is making the rifle much more compact and portable and potentially easier to cock.
 
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Correct me if I am wrong, but does the HW 45 pistol not meet that criteria. The gun is hinged with the barrel in what looks like a slide at the muzzel end, and when you pull it ug and forward, it compresses the spring, so I think the piston moves to the rear when fired Therevel is a transfer port at the back which engages the breech end of the barrel. A unique feature of this gun is that you can cock by moving the slide(barrel) up to a 90 degree position for a reduced power level or move past to almost 180 degrees for a full power level Anyway research the HW 45 and see what you think.

My Marlin 1895's of which I have three are very easy to cock, one called a Guide Gun is extremely compact.
 
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jkingrph said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but does the HW 45 pistol not meet that criteria. The gun is hinged with the barrel in what looks like a slide at the muzzel end, and when you pull it ug and forward, it compresses the spring, so I think the piston moves to the rear when fired Therevel is a transfer port at the back which engages the breech end of the barrel. A unique feature of this gun is that you can cock by moving the slide(barrel) up to a 90 degree position for a reduced power level or move past to almost 180 degrees for a full power level Anyway research the HW 45 and see what you think.

My Marlin 1895's of which I have three are very easy to cock, one called a Guide Gun is extremely compact.
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That is along the lines of what I was thinking. Aside from the faux styling, the mechanism is generally what I mean, but in a rifle. None of those use multiple strokes to load and cock the spring.
 
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Interesting but what I mean is a 36 inches long rifle/carbine or bull pup with the spring under the barrel using either the barrel or a lever to cock the spring/gas ram using multiple strokes to load a more powerful ram or spring than a conventional single stroke rifle. A powerful, compact rifle for hunting small game. A multi-stroke spring rifle could compete with PCPs rifles since the piston could have a much longer stroke, much more volume. Scope on barrel.

I had a .25 caliber break barrel. It was horribly obnoxious, tore up every scope, no rail or rings could hold the scope from walking. It did make the 25+ fpe! It was not accurate and the barrel never returnee twice to the same place. Scope on spring, not barrel. It took ma great deal of effort to cock, but divide that by two and now that is half the effort per stroke.

That is a 26 inches long barrel 7mm RM vs the gigantic conventional break barrel. Conventional break open rifles are just too long and heavy. Barrel entirely atop the spring tube, multi-stroke for cocking. Like a car jack ratchet.

 
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1737166549634.png

1737166600735.png
 
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QB 89

QB-89 "bullpups" at Best Airgun soon - Airguns & Guns Forum

QB-89 "bullpups" at Best Airgun soon, Air guns, Airgun Forum
www.gatewaytoairguns.org
3Crows said:
What if there was a spring gun where the spring tube housing was below the barrel? The entire barrel and breach would sit atop with a small port to the pellet chamber not unlike a PCP at the rear. The pellet gate would also be fully rearward. The gun would be cocked either by an under lever or by the entire barrel to breech assembly. Not only would the rifle be much more compact but the scope would now be located on the barrel, not the breach, and the recoil would be in the correct direction thus no longer (?) requiring air gun rated scopes.

What if cocking used a ratchet system such that cocking could take two, three or even more strokes, depending upon the force of the gas spring or steel spring? Much more powerful springs could be used with longer travel or take half or less effort to cock?

The tube with a spring with a barrel on a hinge at the end is kind of getting old in tooth. As I sit here cleaning the barrel of my Marlin 1895. My interest is making the rifle much more compact and portable and potentially easier to cock.
Click to expand...
 
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jkingrph said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but does the HW 45 pistol not meet that criteria. The gun is hinged with the barrel in what looks like a slide at the muzzel end, and when you pull it up and forward, it compresses the spring, so I think the piston moves to the rear when fired There is a transfer port at the back which engages the breech end of the barrel. A unique feature of this gun is that you can cock by moving the slide(barrel) up to a 90 degree position for a reduced power level or move past to almost 180 degrees for a full power level Anyway research the HW 45 and see what you think.
Click to expand...
HW 45 (aka P1) is a perfect example, and as you describe includes the variable-power feature whicn the OP describes. Every Webley spring pistol made since the 1920's is also a compact barrel-on-top design. Yes - the piston slides forward to cock, and flies rearward when firing, in all these.

IMG_5559.jpeg
 
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One disadvantage of such a design for a powerful rifle, is that a barrel only as long as the spring tube (as in the Webley pistols) would be quite difficult to cock. The necessary leverage would require hinging the top lever well forward of the powerplant (HW 45/P1 kinda sorta does this), or extending the barrel well forward of the pivot (like the old Webley rifles), either of which gives up some compactness.

A multi-stroke cocking setup might ease cocking and help keep the action short, but adds complexity. And unlike a conventional layout, the trigger mechanism can't tuck in neatly behind the powerplant, but must reach around the cylinder forward to the cocked piston - as you can see on the Webley Mk 2 Service.

Which is not to say the basic idea isn't worthy! I've long admired the Service, and a modern re-think could be very interesting.
 
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If a shorter rifle is your goal, to me one key is sidelever cocking. Moving only the cocking pivot to the rear retains an efficient conventional in-line layout, but with fewer dimensional constraints than a barrel-cocker or underlever. This elegant Webley Tracker sidelever taploader from the 1980's is 36 1/2 inches long; the barrel is only 11 inches.

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MDriskill said:
If a shorter rifle is your goal, to me one key is sidelever cocking. Moving only the cocking pivot to the rear retains an efficient conventional in-line layout, but with fewer dimensional restraints than a barrel-cocker or underlever. This elegant Webley Tracker sidelever taploader from the 1980's is 36 1/2 inches long; the barrel is only 11 inches.

View attachment 530226

View attachment 530227
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Wow is that a cool gun. Yours?
 
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