Short range accuracy must = 50 yard. Right ?

I think of sighting in at 10m as a form of 'bore sighting' & sighting in my basement allows for the elimination of variables. It's not what I want, but beats all the alternatives for this time of year, which would be to SOA and not shoot at all.

It seems to translate pretty well into being on target at longer distances for windage IME and saves me some hassle when I actually get to shoot in the field

yes I used to shoot a lot of 10 meters.. I actually got good at it over time with the Beeman P1.. started with 12 gauge shells, then 20.. then 410.. and finally empty 22 LR brass.. lots of good practice when I was young.. plus most of mine was outside on a fence rail.. you shooting inside eliminates the variable of wind..
it won't get you your long distance zero but it will get you close..if you can't hit it at 10 meters or yards..I doubt there's a chance at 50..
personally I have never seen groups tighten up out at distance if they are not tight close.. farther away=farther off..
Mark

I shoot in basement all winter at 7 yards. I know there are many that make fun of me for being so close, but consider this — at 50 yards, moa is approx 1/2”. At 10 meters, it's about .1” or so. If you want to consistently hit inside a minute angle at 50 yards, then at 10 yards/meters you should be able to keep projectiles at .1” center to center. For me, my moa is only .07”.

Your zero will change, but not as much as you think. An air rifle shooting dead center at 25 yards will be really close to center ar 50. You'll just need to practice at 10 meters, then readjust once you get outdoors.

markhooper said:

yes I used to shoot a lot of 10 meters.. I actually got good at it over time with the Beeman P1.. started with 12 gauge shells, then 20.. then 410.. and finally empty 22 LR brass.. lots of good practice when I was young.. plus most of mine was outside on a fence rail.. you shooting inside eliminates the variable of wind..
it won't get you your long distance zero but it will get you close..if you can't hit it at 10 meters or yards..I doubt there's a chance at 50..
personally I have never seen groups tighten up out at distance if they are not tight close.. farther away=farther off..
Mark

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We used to occasionally do weapons qualification (M16) at 25 meters w sized down targets. Marksmanship skills were still required and I don't remember it necessasrily being any more or less difficult. Those targets at 25 were pretty close but also pretty small.

rsfrid said:

I shoot in basement all winter at 7 yards. I know there are many that make fun of me for being so close, but consider this — at 50 yards, moa is approx 1/2”. At 10 meters, it's about .1” or so. If you want to consistently hit inside a minute angle at 50 yards, then at 10 yards/meters you should be able to keep projectiles at .1” center to center. For me, my moa is only .07”.

Your zero will change, but not as much as you think. An air rifle shooting dead center at 25 yards will be really close to center ar 50. You'll just need to practice at 10 meters, then readjust once you get outdoors.

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When I've transitioned to shooting at longer distances I've notice that the bullet arc actually has a POI significantly higher than at 10 m.

It adds to the challenge, makes it interesting & that's why we're here, right?

Blackdog, that is exactly how I see it and how it has played out in the field. Most of my shooting is in the basement @10m. If the pellet and barrel don’t work well together in the shooting parlor, they won’t get any better once outside.

Once outside, most of my guns get 10 or so clicks down to bring me to the top of the arc. Once on location I always take a sighter or two.

I am not a short distance shooter, but I know for sure the pellets shape (flat head) is a different design... if you shopping for precision.

You may want to go with something like this:

blackdog899 said:

Ok guys u confirmed what I knew to be .
thanks,
Mike

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Agree that you have it right - but when you go from indoors at 13 yards to outdoor at 50, be prepared to experience just how much even very little wind affects pellets. Shooting sub MoA consistently out there is really hard, and honestly occurs fairly rarely. Sure, if your gun shoots well you'll get some, but if you overlay those groups on top of each other you will see that things are really likely to be much bigger than MoA with respect to a common PoA . . . people talk of guns shooting groups that "average under one MoA" but that is a world away from a gun that consistently shoots almost every shot within 1 MoA at 50 yards, despite the fact that it might do that at 10 yards indoors.

I know those might be fighting words to many, but it is reality . . .

AlanMcD said:

Agree that you have it right - but when you go from indoors at 13 yards to outdoor at 50, be prepared to experience just how much even very little wind affects pellets. Shooting sub MoA consistently out there is really hard, and honestly occurs fairly rarely. Sure, if your gun shoots well you'll get some, but if you overlay those groups on top of each other you will see that things are really likely to be much bigger than MoA with respect to a common PoA . . . people talk of guns shooting groups that "average under one MoA" but that is a world away from a gun that consistently shoots almost every shot within 1 MoA at 50 yards, despite the fact that it might do that at 10 yards indoors.

I know those might be fighting words to many, but it is reality . . .

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Absolute reality. And as far as outdoors vs indoor shooting it is night and day. Where I live there is rarely a day or even an hour without wind, even if it is just 3 or 4 mph. Any wind will affect air gun projectile flight.

Working well at short range does not guarantee success at longer range. It’s just a pre qualification.

Struckat said:

Working well at short range does not guarantee success at longer range. It’s just a pre qualification.

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You can be good at 10 and bad at 50, but you can't be bad at 10 and good at 50.

blackdog899 said:

Ohh I’m aware , might be new to air but have competed club level 22 bench and NRA 300 and 1000 yard f class.
Thats along with about 6 seasons of NRA small bore silhouette. A lot of bench practice for the chickens, pigs, turkeys and rams.
When I finally get to the range at 50 yards ooooo shooot

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Cool. Just know that typical pellet wind drift is more than an order of magnitude higher than typical PB bullet wind drift . . .

Great topic - I've posted a comment here and there over the years about this same thing. Majority of my shooting is indoors at 10-12 yards. I, like everyone else constrained to little spaces wishing they had more, do try to make the best of it.

To the OPs point, what I have found is that accuracy at 10 yards tells some of the story but not all of it. It's a great starting point but once you extend the distance anything can happen. I've yet to see a pellet (or slug) that will not do a tiny caliber size hole at 10 yards get any better with distance. The corollary to that is I have seen a good number of pellets that are single hole at 10 yards completely fall apart by 25-50 yards - so there's no given.

At least the 10 yards helps you rule out the real stinkers so that when you get to the range you can focus on the potential winners. But distance with an airgun is not joke. When I first started going to a range and went from indoors to outdoors that was a big challenge to my shooting. When I then went from 50 to 100 yards that was another big shift. 100 yards make 50 yards seem easy. A lot of outdoor environmental stuff happens between 50-100 yards.

I haven't shot indoors since 94.
At that time I would use relative size targets, figuring a 2 1/2" target at 100y required a 1 1/4" at 50y, 5/8" at 25y, and indoors at 30 feet 1/4". So I figured if I could shoot 22Lr cases at 30 teet, I would be good on cans at 100 , with regard to aim and release, outside influences aside.

I love 10 yard shooting , a lot of people do not think it is a worthwhile thing to do .
My indoor range is only 23 feet , apx. 8 yards . Even rested one tenth of an inch (1 MOA ) is hard to do .

blackdog899 said:

It’s been a real winter here so since buying into the Airgun hobby have shot in cellar at 13 yards.

So I have always known that if it’s not one little ~ .22 hole at my 13 yards it’s not gonna be a consistent

10 ring at 50 or 100 yards. I’ve known this or did I just assume it true ?

Someone on here mentioned that the pellet may not have stabilized at short range, I can’t agree that a

group can improve as the range lengthened.

Im right on this , aren’t I ??

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Big difference between indoor and outdoor and 10 meter or 55 yards... pellet speed dropping, wind pushing, thermals lifting etc...
My take is this: on a very still day, i shoot my 5 to 10 round groups at 55 yards with a given pellet at its best speed, example 10.3 at 888 fps.
If i'm clover leaf touching the barrel is good to go for my HFT needs.
Exception, when I'm shooting EFT / UFT / AFT then i want my .25 cal 25 gr or 33gr pellets at 910 FPS and hope to be within a 1.5 inch group or tighter so i can get inside the Kill Zone.
Benchrest? i'm wanting almost hole on hole at 25/50/75/100 - i don't own a gun capable of doing this.