N/A PCP Hold, does it matter?

Try all the other pellets brands, JSB, the JSB variants from Air Arms, FX, Regal, and so on. Then you need to test, test, test. Test each round at various speeds and tunes to find the most accurate round for your gun. Ted shows how he does this in different videos. He's also editing his videos to show hits, not misses. That's not to say he isn't a great shot, but 100% repeatable accuracy is very difficult to accomplish.

You know your gun is capable of being accurate. I would attribute those fliers to the pellets not being uniform for the most part. The idiosyncrasies of airguns are to be expected but recently a lot of us have noticed that the qc of some pellet manufacturers hasn't been up to snuff. Luckily new pellets have shown up that are getting good results in the areas of quality control and consistency. We win some, lose some. It's all part of "the game".

Depending on the gun, hold does matter. However at 10yds flyers shouldn't be present so either clipping is present or barrel just doesn't like the pellets

LancasterAirgunner24 said:

Does what in other videos?

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He show's his sorting routine, and how much testing he does to be sure he's not getting flyers.

you arent wrong about the normas they are well made and very clean

From your posts, I see that you have approached airguns and shooting seriously. Lots of good advice listed above to help iron out any possible issues with your equipment.

Some airguns (notoriously springers) are very hold sensitive. Most modern PCPs, with decent pellets will shoot small, consistent groups. From personal experience, and what I've seen with many friends, it's usually the shooter that is the problem.

Nobody shoots perfect scores all the time (that's what editing is for ) but skilled/experienced shooters can "feel" if they made a good shot and know when a bad one was their fault or a hardware issue. The only way to get good is to practice - a lot! Expensive guns, high-end scopes and all the accessories in the world are not a substitute for good trigger time.

A couple of things that I do that has helped me...

- Buy lots of pellets and shoot as often as you can.

- Shoot "this shot", forget about the last shot, don't think about the next shot. There is only here and now, focus on that. Shooting is a mind game, focus is everything.

- Use a simple dot as an aim point and put up a fresh target when the pellet holes become distracting. A fancy target with scoring rings is too distracting . The aim point is for reference only, no need to hit it. The goal is consistency and tight groups.

- To learn to feel the shot, shoot at (very) close range - like 10 yards or the minimum focus of your scope - until your form and follow through is consistent. It's important to be able see the point of impact and the sight picture in real time. When the pellet lands where you expect it to (allowing for real world tolerances), most of the time, then consider shooting for points or increasing the challenge. Until you can "call the shot", it's best to keep working on form and consistently.

- Many short sessions (mine are typically 5 groups of 5 shots then 25 targets with 1 shot per target) allow you the keep sharp focus and concentration. Don't shoot when you're tired or frustrated.

- Most importantly, RELAX and enjoy your practice. No pressure, no stress, have fun. If a flier or a pulled shot ruins your group don't worry - every shot shows you what works or doesn't work. It's all valid practice.

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, I'm just going over the points that helped me and the people who I've coached.

So to answer your question, yeah, I think hold is very important.

Hope this helps!

Cheers!

Yes, but not like a springer. Much easier to get right. Keep your crosshairs on the target till after you hit it. Works great.

kaylaindy said:

Yes, but not like a springer. Much easier to get right. Keep your crosshairs on the target till after you hit it. Works great.

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I agree, follow thru, follow thru, follow thru

The rifle being tuned properly is also a major consideration, and that can change with changing pellet brands/models.
If there is too much waste air behind the pellet it could cause these issues.

I think we first need to eliminate the video thing. Unless you were physically there shooting with him. Did you do your crown on a lathe? Did you clean up the leade on a lathe? If you did and everything is concentric, then it could just be a bad barrel. I have a pile of them under the bench in the shop. All have beautiful crowns and nice lead ins that I cut. Just don’t shoot to my standards. Nothing is hold sensitive at 12 yards.

"- Use a simple dot as an aim point and put up a fresh target when the pellet holes become distracting. A fancy target with scoring rings is too distracting . The aim point is for reference only, no need to hit it. The goal is consistency and tight groups." Vana2

I know this is a common method/belief... But for years I've used one inch square target pasters (or any size square)... then I set the crosshairs on one corner to shoot a group. I feel this is more precise than estimating a center hold.

Also for group shooting, as Vana2 stated more or less... I do not want the shots to impact and thereby muddle my aiming point. So once I figure the most accurate pellet (or 22 LR round), then I sight the gun to hit where I want the POI.

Even though a pellet may meet your perfection standards, it doesn't mean that your gun is going to like it.

I used to be a fan of JSB's, but upon a recommendation I tried JTS and AEA pellets and in general have gotten much better/consistent results.

Does your scope have parallax correction down to 12 or 15 yards? If not that could be contributing to your grouping issues.


Jerry

I made these targets in publisher so I can evaluate everything at 10m indoor first. It’s really helped me concentrate.
I secure the rifle and eliminate as much human factor from the groups.

Shooting indoors should eliminate wind which is a big issue for me. You did not mention head size sorting, some guns are picky about head size and I have 2 tins of Crosman 177s that are Terribly inconsistent in head size. Most of my guns prefer H&N Match pellets to JSBs but one barrel likes JSBs. I am not a Crosman fan but I have had good tins. It's the bad tins that cause me to mainly shoot other brands. But regardless of how well made a pellet is made it doesn't mean your gun will shoot them well. My guns threw fliers too until I found a pellet they really like. I find a low ES and std deviation is an indicator the gun really likes a pellet.

But if it is not the pellet it is probably you. I did not fire a PCP until 2020. I think the first year I shot the 30 yard challenge my best score was a 185. The last two years (2023 & 2024) I've shot a 200. Best so far this year is a 197. I'm getting better but I can't shoot a 200 on the Masters target because I can't string together 20 great shots. On the Challenge target you get to throw out a couple "fliers".

humbled.ag said:

Try all the other pellets brands, JSB, the JSB variants from Air Arms, FX, Regal, and so on. Then you need to test, test, test. Test each round at various speeds and tunes to find the most accurate round for your gun. Ted shows how he does this in different videos. He's also editing his videos to show hits, not misses. That's not to say he isn't a great shot, but 100% repeatable accuracy is very difficult to accomplish.

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Or, the OP could just get some AEA's and save the expense. Oh and learn to time his heart rate. There are apples and there are oranges, they ain't the same. Oh and then there is tuning and trigger control and .....omg....experience and lots of practice.

How you hold any tool matters because your are trying to meld with said tool to achieve a result. To me all “tools” are women, who need to be held a certain way… I also feel that way about driving, give me a road with lots of curves… So to answer your question, when I buckle down and concentrate? I get good groups, when sending casually? Not so much…