N/A PCP Hold, does it matter?

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Everything in your post mirrors my own frustration with PCP accuracy. I got so burned out and frustrated in my search for that "pellet on a pellet" accuracy that it chased me out of the sport for several years.

One of the many targets I've created in Photoshop was one with 100 circles with centers exactly .177 in diameter. Every night for months in my indoor shooting range of 50 feet I'd shoot 100 pellets, trying to see how many times I could actually shoot a pellet exactly in the center of each circle. On most days I was lucky if I could perfectly place 25 - 30 or so out of 100.

I practiced all the basics of good shooting: trigger control, grip, breathing, follow through and heartbeat. I bought all the highest end air rifles, Daystate, FX, and RAW and equipped them with decent scopes. I've got enough tins of pellets from every manufacturer that I could probably open my own store.

And none of these efforts seem to make much difference in my search for accurate shooting. I could never figure out why I could string together three or four perfect shots and then all of a sudden there would be one a little left, or a little right, up, down, whatever. And then I'd reach for the scope, a click here or a click there, and everything would be great until it would happen all over again.

So, I've recently reentered the PCP world again but with different expectations. I still shoot the same targets, but no longer expect the perfect score. I've come to accept that there are just too many variables in the PCP world.
 
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kaylaindy said:
Yes, but not like a springer. Much easier to get right. Keep your crosshairs on the target till after you hit it. Works great.
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I feel that a good shooter doesn't just happen by chance. There is a lot involved, from ensuring the scope is properly with the shooter to following through after the shot. There is no substitute for practice and sound advice. My service training taught me well, and I believe there was some very valuable feedback on this matter. I use a check rest to assure I'm looking though the scope the same way every time.
 
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Another factor is to get the diopter lens adjusted right for you. I think the best way to do it is to sight a tight target with the highest magnification from the bench and try moving your head a little. If the diopter is correctly adjusted you won't be able to move your head and still see the reticle. If you don't do this minor changes in head position affect your point of aim.
 
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Something I noticed when I started shooting groups with PB rifles is that I didn't need perfect form but a repeat hold was necessary. When shooting PB pistols my groups improved greatly with a good hold with proper form and equal side to side pressure with both hands . Some really good pistol shooters helped me with that on another forum . I get my best groups with PCPs with a firm grip , in my mind I think lock it down , and not too much cheek pressure. The cold steel on my Taipans remind me about cheek pressure. My airguns take longer from the time I pull the trigger until the pellet leaves the barrel , lock time , so I do try to hold on the target after I pull the trigger . I do follow through PBs also .

With flyers, I usually blame the pellets . When I find pellets or slugs my airgun really likes my groups stay smaller with fewer flyers . Going from .22 cal 25.4 JSBs pellets to the same weight JTS or AEAs I would get fewer flyers. Same with the .177 JSB 10.3gr pellets and the 10.4gr JTS pellets, I had less flyers. I don't sort or clean my ammo either . I do still like the JSBs because of their softer lead and acceptable accuracy and really like the 10.03 Knockouts . Having 6 different. 22 cals I can always find one that does ok so nothing goes to waist. Part of the fun for me is finding those nuggets and sometimes I'm surprised at what shoots well out of the standard 880 fps range with pellets .
 
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JimD said:
Another factor is to get the diopter lens adjusted right for you. I think the best way to do it is to sight a tight target with the highest magnification from the bench and try moving your head a little. If the diopter is correctly adjusted you won't be able to move your head and still see the reticle. If you don't do this minor changes in head position affect your point of aim.
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Don't you mean Parallax? It's a multi step process, get the diopter adjusted for the reticle, get the parallax adjusted for distance, then start tweaking both for perfection. Having the gun mounted solid and keeping your head off of it move your head and see if the center moves, keep tweeting until it's zero. As I wear progressive lenses and have astigmatism it's a touch more interesting.
 
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HogKiller said:
Don't you mean Parallax? It's a multi step process, get the diopter adjusted for the reticle, get the parallax adjusted for distance, then start tweaking both for perfection. Having the gun mounted solid and keeping your head off of it move your head and see if the center moves, keep tweeting until it's zero. As I wear progressive lenses and have astigmatism it's a touch more interesting.
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Very!
 
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LancasterAirgunner24 said:
Does what in other videos? JSB's arent flier proof they just cost 2x as much.. i dont belive pellets are the issue since it does it with all of them. I understand perfect shots everytime is not a thing, i would never expect that to be the case,, but a handful of WILD fliers per string is unacceptable
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It is more expensive to miss four shots with cheap pellets than hit once with an expensive pellet.

If you do not mind to hit, save air and let them fly with a slingshot.
 
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doberschelp said:
Everything in your post mirrors my own frustration with PCP accuracy. I got so burned out and frustrated in my search for that "pellet on a pellet" accuracy that it chased me out of the sport for several years.

One of the many targets I've created in Photoshop was one with 100 circles with centers exactly .177 in diameter. Every night for months in my indoor shooting range of 50 feet I'd shoot 100 pellets, trying to see how many times I could actually shoot a pellet exactly in the center of each circle. On most days I was lucky if I could perfectly place 25 - 30 or so out of 100.

I practiced all the basics of good shooting: trigger control, grip, breathing, follow through and heartbeat. I bought all the highest end air rifles, Daystate, FX, and RAW and equipped them with decent scopes. I've got enough tins of pellets from every manufacturer that I could probably open my own store.

And none of these efforts seem to make much difference in my search for accurate shooting. I could never figure out why I could string together three or four perfect shots and then all of a sudden there would be one a little left, or a little right, up, down, whatever. And then I'd reach for the scope, a click here or a click there, and everything would be great until it would happen all over again.

So, I've recently reentered the PCP world again but with different expectations. I still shoot the same targets, but no longer expect the perfect score. I've come to accept that there are just too many variables in the PCP world.
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An interesting read. I too took a leave of absence from airgunning for two year for the same reason. I came back last year with a new outlook and a new gun. I think that the old gun had more of an effect on my decision to quit. I was constantly tuning and retuning but just never achieving my goal. Really, too many variables for the tuning process. I’d get close but then the next time I shot, things had changed and I was back to square one.

I recently bought a SKOUT Evo in .22, leaving .25 behind and am quite happy.

So that aside, I do think grip is crucial. With the Evo, I find a relaxed grip with the left hand resting on the cheek rest, close to the scope adds mass to the gun and gives me a more stable hold. And I practice breathing. I’m stilll getting used to the electronic trigger though. Some work needed there, but overall I’m much happier. Find the right gun and start having fun again.
As a side note, I just shot my personal best at 100 yards this evening with slugs. Happy days.
Best of luck to you and your return to the hobby of airgunning
 
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LancasterAirgunner24 said:
Explain to me how Ted is able to shoot like this and hit the mark everytime.. ive been getting fliers indoors (12yrds).. not like ragged hole groups, like 2 through the same hole than 1 an inch off.. pellets: 177, Crosman Ultra Magnums 10.5, Norma 9.1, Norma 8.4, Crosman HP 7.9 All washed, weighed and inspected.. Rest: Offhand artillery hold, rested artillery hold, forearm or bag/holding rear, bipod/holding forearm, bipod/holding rear, front on solid rest/rear on bag.. Hold: tight or loose front hand or trigger hand.. Current Tune: 2000psi 820 fps 10.5g ES-23 SD-7.. 3 12rd mags.. Barrel: before and after cleaning and improving existing crown.. ETC. I am not an amateur, i started on break barrels for years and have a pretty good understanding of what im doing/how things work.. That being said, short range fliers like im getting, i dont buy it being caused by heartbeat, breathing, trigger pull, inconsistent hold and so on..

Ted has a bipod and the rear resting on a bag, one hand on the gun, sitting on the ground.. That leads me to believe there are alot more technical issues that are being over looked, causing fliers and blamed on the shooter.. SO, what are those technical issues? Tell me how you fixed/greatly reduced fliers on a gun.. How can Ted just casually glance down at the scope cam, hold on target and hit the mark everytime? multiple times the distance im shooting..

Meanwhile my hatsan at-44 10qe puts them in the same whole for the past 2000+ rounds, weather i take my time and focus on my shot process or try to shoot multiple targets quickly (i dont do that often i was just testing how bad it would shoot, but it didnt..) its almost boring to shoot because no matter what its right on.

It doesnt matter how good the shooter is if the gun isnt doing its part as well.. I am far from the best shooter, but Im confident those wild fliers are not me.. So what are the causes for them? in my rifle or yours.. I want to talk solutions, things that have fixed them.. not hear your negative comments and insults to make you feel good because YOUR gun is shooting "crack on" right now lol

Gotta love ted..

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That ES/SD looks a bit high for me and could have an affect on your groups. Perhaps try dropping your speed? My Diana springer gets around 10 for ES. My pcp gets around 4-6 for ES.

I like using H&N Field Target Trophy in my .22 springer. You can get those pellets in different head sizes and they make a big difference. 5.54 shoots lights out whereas 5.52 gives a significantly looser group.

Also try AEA and JSB. There are others by Daystate,FX, and Edgun that some shooters have good luck with.

There’s a lot of trial and error with significant $$$ spent but it will pay off in the end.

Oh and clean that barrel out from time to time.
Best of luck
 
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LancasterAirgunner24 said:
Explain to me how Ted is able to shoot like this and hit the mark everytime.. ive been getting fliers indoors (12yrds).. not like ragged hole groups, like 2 through the same hole than 1 an inch off.. pellets: 177, Crosman Ultra Magnums 10.5, Norma 9.1, Norma 8.4, Crosman HP 7.9 All washed, weighed and inspected.. Rest: Offhand artillery hold, rested artillery hold, forearm or bag/holding rear, bipod/holding forearm, bipod/holding rear, front on solid rest/rear on bag.. Hold: tight or loose front hand or trigger hand.. Current Tune: 2000psi 820 fps 10.5g ES-23 SD-7.. 3 12rd mags.. Barrel: before and after cleaning and improving existing crown.. ETC. I am not an amateur, i started on break barrels for years and have a pretty good understanding of what im doing/how things work.. That being said, short range fliers like im getting, i dont buy it being caused by heartbeat, breathing, trigger pull, inconsistent hold and so on..

Ted has a bipod and the rear resting on a bag, one hand on the gun, sitting on the ground.. That leads me to believe there are alot more technical issues that are being over looked, causing fliers and blamed on the shooter.. SO, what are those technical issues? Tell me how you fixed/greatly reduced fliers on a gun.. How can Ted just casually glance down at the scope cam, hold on target and hit the mark everytime? multiple times the distance im shooting..

Meanwhile my hatsan at-44 10qe puts them in the same whole for the past 2000+ rounds, weather i take my time and focus on my shot process or try to shoot multiple targets quickly (i dont do that often i was just testing how bad it would shoot, but it didnt..) its almost boring to shoot because no matter what its right on.

It doesnt matter how good the shooter is if the gun isnt doing its part as well.. I am far from the best shooter, but Im confident those wild fliers are not me.. So what are the causes for them? in my rifle or yours.. I want to talk solutions, things that have fixed them.. not hear your negative comments and insults to make you feel good because YOUR gun is shooting "crack on" right now lol

Gotta love ted..

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Your ES/SD looks a bit high. See if you can retune to lower those numbers. That can have a big affect on groups. Maybe slow down?
Also 2000 psi for 820 fps in.177? Those numbers seem off. I’m shooting 22.07 gr .22 pellets at 960 fps for with the regulator set to 1450 psi. Thinking your trouble lies here.

Try other pellet manufacturers. JSB, H&N field target trophy, Daystare, FX, JTS AEA. Those last two are very good. H&N offer different head sizes which give big differences in groups in my .22

Experiment.
Clean your barrel

Wondering if 12 yards is giving the pellet enough time to stabilize?

Anyway, some thoughts to consider. Best of luck.
These YouTube guys edit out the bad shots😉
 
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This target was shot yesterday afternoon. I used my Air Arms TX200 in .177 shooting JSB 8.4 pellets from the tin. The distance is ten yard, and I shot it standing unsupported(offhand). I'd say the pellets stabilize just fine, and If I try a bit harder, those -2's will disappear. Anyways, It may be a bit easier with a pcp, but the scores will be the same. I'd say skill level plays the most important part of shooting, and most guns will be more accurate than you. Oh, and when you practice, do it with purpose, and try to stick to one, or two micro skills per session. Example: practice trigger pull only, while paying attention to a repeatable hold and position on the gun. Also, you don't need to shoot 100 or more rounds each session. I shoot this card daily, sometimes two, for a total of 15-30 shots per session, always paying attention to get the little things right,

Something else I haven't seen mentioned is the mental game. It's no less important than the physical aspect. Any intrusive thought will cause a miss. So trying to stay in the moment, thinking about the shot you're taking and not the shot you took, or the next will help to stay on target.
SMALLBORE 177.jpg

Oh, I don't use shooting aids such as heavy jackets or gloves, slings etc.
 
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