Hey guys just curious does anyone have both a vintage FWB and a new modern version that is still in production? Just curious how the newer versions compare. I’ve always had an old HW 55 or an old beeman. Lmk thanks
N/A Vintage FWB 150/300 vs Modern FWB
- Thread starter wpvince
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The FWB 150-300 discontinued in the med eighties. What makes them so awesome to shoot is the recoilless feature and the consistancy from shot to shot. They are a ten meter gun though shooting at 25 meters puts em right in there !
I might add in 1974 A FWB 300 cost $150+ an Anschutz mod 54 was $150+ also. A 54 now costs , what $2500 ? Do the math,the FWB is a work of art !
I might add in 1974 A FWB 300 cost $150+ an Anschutz mod 54 was $150+ also. A 54 now costs , what $2500 ? Do the math,the FWB is a work of art !
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The only FWB 10-meter guns now in production are pre-charged pneumatics, so that is sort of an apples-oranges comparison to the classic spring-piston gun. If you are referring to newer versions of the latter, the last one was the 300S which went extinct in the late 1990's. The 150 was introduced in 1963, the 300 about 1968, and the 300S in 1972.
All three of those classic recoilless rifles share a lot of parts, and perform very similarly. The main changes over time were in the many stock options and details of the triggers, cocking arm, sights, barrel length, balance weights, etc. These affected handling and ergonomics, but there was nothing that significantly affected power or accuracy.
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I’m so sorry I think I confused myself with the weihrauch. They are still making springer pellet rifles correct? Thanks everybody and sorry for the confusion
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In competition the single stroke pneumatics and precharged pneumatics are a tiny bit more accurate than recoilless piston designs.
Where they stand out is in the live hands of a shooter, where the reduced barrel time is helpful.
The PCPs are one step better because the shooter barely break position to prepare for the next shot. With piston and single strokes the shooter has to break down their stance and cock the gun between shots. Over the course of a match that adds up.
For a recreational shooter you won't notice much other than the price tag, stock adjustments, and looks.
Where they stand out is in the live hands of a shooter, where the reduced barrel time is helpful.
The PCPs are one step better because the shooter barely break position to prepare for the next shot. With piston and single strokes the shooter has to break down their stance and cock the gun between shots. Over the course of a match that adds up.
For a recreational shooter you won't notice much other than the price tag, stock adjustments, and looks.
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Yessir, HW is still making many models of outstanding spring-piston guns, but no longer any dedicated 10-meter hardware. The HW 55 ended production in the late 1990's.
And I commend your good taste - the HW 55 is about my favorite airgun of all time!
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1000% correct! But to old cranky me PCP's almost seem like "cheating" (well not REALLY of course, since every competitor has the same advantages)! But for years the physical effort to cock and load the gun for each shot was part of the zen of an airgun match.
I'm almost, but not totally, alone in this sentiment; one of the UK forums runs a postal match that requires use of single-shot, manually-charged guns.
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My competitive shooting ended before the PCP era, so I can only compare a 300S/SU against the SSP model 600. The speed of shot release is noticeably faster with a 600, and the pump arrangement put the muzzle much closer to the shooter than any other springer or SSP of the time, which also had a significant impact on reducing the impact of movement by the shooter. The 600 and its successor models were IMHO less tiring to shoot with than the Walther LGR. Although the LGR was a beautiful and superbly accurate gun, the compression stroke was too much for me to even consider. The loading port flap of the LGR always moved a tiny amount when the shot was released, which I always thought was a strange "flaw" for such a well-made gun. Feinwerkbau took a long time after the LGR's arrival to introduce their 600, but I think they took the SSP system to its zenith, not just by reversing the pump stroke to make it easier, but with the thought behind the simple mechanism to flip up the loading port flap at the top of the pump-stroke and simultaneously block the trigger mechanism.
As I said, the PCP era came after I left the game, but the match PCPs (and modern .22 free rifles) with all their hyper-adjustability and cold metal instead of some wood, just have no appeal for me. I mean, who couldn't love that unmistakeable ratchet sound as you pull back the cocking lever on a 300, or the clack of the loading port flap on a 600!
I still have my 600 (October 1984 vintage) which I bought secondhand in 1985 from someone who "couldn't get on with it", and it's still got it (new seals of course), and I bought a later model (1993) 300S a year back for the memories. Wish I still had my old 300SU though!
As I said, the PCP era came after I left the game, but the match PCPs (and modern .22 free rifles) with all their hyper-adjustability and cold metal instead of some wood, just have no appeal for me. I mean, who couldn't love that unmistakeable ratchet sound as you pull back the cocking lever on a 300, or the clack of the loading port flap on a 600!
I still have my 600 (October 1984 vintage) which I bought secondhand in 1985 from someone who "couldn't get on with it", and it's still got it (new seals of course), and I bought a later model (1993) 300S a year back for the memories. Wish I still had my old 300SU though!
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That’s a good point about barrel length. The modern match air rifles often have very short barrels. The barrel on my Anschutz is less than a foot long. The shot travels at least that far within the shroud. So that would be another advantage to the PCP.
That said, my effective hold (drunken wobble) radius shooting offhand is countless times more significant than anything that’s been mentioned.
That said, my effective hold (drunken wobble) radius shooting offhand is countless times more significant than anything that’s been mentioned.
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Good write up, but really no comparison. I agree with everything you have said. I have had my FWB300s for 41 years now and just recently got and restored a FWB 602. It does seem to be a little more accurate. I just got an old style Freeland palm rest to use with it to make offhand shooting easier, so I need to get used to using that.
Like you I have no desire with the all aluminum "stocks" on the new guns. They may be more ergonomically adjustable but simply lake the soul of wood and blue steel. My new to me 602 is a meistergrade, with a beautiful tiger stripe walnut stock. Even my old 300s has some faint tigerstripe along the forearm.
My competitive shooting ended 60 years ago, I was on a smallbore rifle team in college ROTC for a couple of years.
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Yes, my FWB602 has a relatively short barrel, at least if you consider the rifled portion. Looking at the muzzel it looks more like a .45 caliber smoothbore, the rifle portion ends about 8-10 inches back, all the rest is a shroud that serves to give a longer sight radius.
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Wow thanks guys I really appreciate it. Yes I agree my
HW 55T will always be my favorite since I grew up with one similar to it. My father has a 600 but we never used it bc it was so big and heavy. I’m glad I asked bc the 150 and 300 aren’t much smaller or lighter. I’ve shot the fwb sport but it was loud and recoil was more then I’d like.
HW 55T will always be my favorite since I grew up with one similar to it. My father has a 600 but we never used it bc it was so big and heavy. I’m glad I asked bc the 150 and 300 aren’t much smaller or lighter. I’ve shot the fwb sport but it was loud and recoil was more then I’d like.
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Yes, true match guns are specialized tools that are pretty bulky! The HW 55 began with the light action of the original HW 50 sporter, so it's trimmer (though you can add a barrel sleeve and/or a weight inside the fore end to get up to the legal weight limit for matches if so desired).
You might enjoy owning an FWB 300S Junior (aka "Mini'). The barrel is 60mm shorter and has no weight sleeve, making it altogether more pleasant for general shooting. (Full-size guns sometimes omitted the sleeve, but most you will find in the US have a full-length one which is stepped to be fatter at the end, as seen below. That extra weight, out so far from your hands, makes a huge difference in handling and balance.) There are Junior versions of later SSP and PCP designs, too.
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Though I have had several model 65 pistols, I have never owned a 300. I can say that I have owned several of the 600 & 603 variants and I own a current model 800. The SSPs are in my less than champion hands as accurate as the 800. The difference is the amount of effort to shoot a SSP vs a PCP. During a 60 shot match that will be decided by hundreds of an inch it doesn’t hurt to be as fresh and relaxed as possible, that coupled with the very short barrels that PCP power allows giving the shooter less opportunity to pull a shot has relegated anything other than PCPs no longer competitive.
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I have 3 Feinwerkbau rifles, 2 pistols and I'm very fond of all of them.
My favorite thing is to have one of my powder burner friends shoot the Feinwerkbau 10 meter airguns - their expression is always priceless.
My favorite thing is to have one of my powder burner friends shoot the Feinwerkbau 10 meter airguns - their expression is always priceless.
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Old vs New . I have 2 Diana 75s, a FWB 300s, and a TX200. They all shoot great off the bench, 98% of my shooting. The one closest to shooting a regular bp and shoot pretty good instantly is the FWB 300s. Its also hardest for me to shoot tiny groups with, 5 shots under .1 c to c although last week I shot a group the truly looks like 1 pellets. Either 75 If I do my part shoots very well always. Now the newer TX200 is it as accurate. Absolutely, it's my bench rest gun, had a learning curve but it's my money gun. They all want shot different but all will deliver accuracy that make my pb br buddies shake their heads. About half our group also shoot pb br.So the new in my opinion is totally competitive. They joy of the old guns is the bank vault feel working the actions, they are in a league of their own. My newly acquired LGU is a contender.
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