I'm relatively new to this addicting PCP world. I'm aware the 22LR projectiles have more power. But, in general which has more accuracy out to 100 yards, and which has more drop/rainbow?
25 cal slugs vs. 22LR
- Thread starter Don_Fabb
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Depends on the accuracy of both rifles, and how much you are willing to spend on both.
An airgun that is tuned and set up for a specific slug. You would be able to keep up with a 22 all day long. But again money is going to be the deciding factor in everything.
An airgun that is tuned and set up for a specific slug. You would be able to keep up with a 22 all day long. But again money is going to be the deciding factor in everything.
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What slug weight and speed in a 25 cal air rifle would be able to solidly compete with a 22LR standard velocity round? what are some suggestions?
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Yes a good PCP can beat some .22 LR in accuracy with some ammo.
^^^^^Fixed that for you^^^^^
In terms of power (fpe) there really is no PCP .25 that could compare. A .22 can go from 45 fpe (CCI Quiet) to 190 fpe (CCI Stinger) just by changing the ammo. Price delta for dollars spent for equal accuracy, .22 Long Rifle all the way. Longevity and durability and real world ability to hold POI day to day and decade to decade, .22 Long Rifle all the way.
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a Condor long barrel will get you at about the power level of the 22 LR CCI quiet..
mine will put the 25 grain 22 caliber supersonic, almost super sonic with jsb 34 grain beasts.. and I haven't had a chance to chronograph the new 40 grain Zan slugs yet but they do hit my 50 yard spinner harder than my 22lr..
Mark
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I also think lethality of 25 caliber air rifles on small game can be equal or better than 22lr. A bigger diameter hole helps.
Accuracy at 50 yards or less may also favor pcps but I'm not sure of that. Last year a "flyswatter" challenge was somewhat active on YouTube for the lr guys. The target has life sized horse flys and they were shooting them at 50 yards. I tried it at 30 yards and I couldn't do as well as the lr guys were doing at 50.
The big thing that hurts airguns is the bc of our ammo is almost always lower and velocity is lower. These factors lead to more wind drift. The positive factors are more consistent velocity. If you can find a 25 caliber slug with a bc as high as a target 22lr and push it as fast you can better a lr.
But another factor is barrels. I have one pcp with a CZ barrel which is touted in airguns but has disappointed me. In some ways it is worse than at least one of my SPA barrels. So I looked at what pb shooters think of CZ barrels. They are considered a little better than Savage, Remington and Ruger barrels but much worse than Leiga and Shilen and other high end target barrels. If we want to beat lr accuracy we also need equivalent barrels.
Accuracy at 50 yards or less may also favor pcps but I'm not sure of that. Last year a "flyswatter" challenge was somewhat active on YouTube for the lr guys. The target has life sized horse flys and they were shooting them at 50 yards. I tried it at 30 yards and I couldn't do as well as the lr guys were doing at 50.
The big thing that hurts airguns is the bc of our ammo is almost always lower and velocity is lower. These factors lead to more wind drift. The positive factors are more consistent velocity. If you can find a 25 caliber slug with a bc as high as a target 22lr and push it as fast you can better a lr.
But another factor is barrels. I have one pcp with a CZ barrel which is touted in airguns but has disappointed me. In some ways it is worse than at least one of my SPA barrels. So I looked at what pb shooters think of CZ barrels. They are considered a little better than Savage, Remington and Ruger barrels but much worse than Leiga and Shilen and other high end target barrels. If we want to beat lr accuracy we also need equivalent barrels.
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I have a Vet I compact in .25 (13" barrel) that about equals my Tikka T1x .22 (20" barrel) at 50 yds as far as accuracy. 100 yds is a different story: The nod goes to the Tikka
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it would be interesting to see a shot string from a high end 22, I have no idea what kind of variation there is from cartridge cartridge but obviously there's no progressive change in tank pressure to have to compensate for. For a very long string of shots I think the firearm is going to have the advantage but I am speculating i only shoot with air.
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The firearm will not have the advantage unless you make your own ammo.
My regulated guns will give me a ES around 20 for a full airtank and under 10 for a short (around 10 round) string. SD under 5. I had a six shot string with slugs recently that the ES was under 3 fps. Powder burners will not come close to that (even hand loading). They more commonly share SD and under 10 is considered good. ES around 50 is considered good. Even an unregulated PCP will do that.
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A standard velocity 22rf 40gr bullet goes approximately 1060 fps which is 99.82 fpe and the G1 BC is approximately .16.
In my tuned Vulcan 3 the 60gr Altaros slugs are going 862 fps which is 99.02 fpe and the G1 BC is .245.
These slugs blow less in the wind than the 22rf but go slower so they have more drop up to around 400 yards when the slugs are going the same velocity as the 22rf because of that higher BC.
Edit, Keep in mind a V3 "HP" is capable of another 100+ fps with that same slug.
Practically speaking both my two guns, one a 22rf match rifle, and the other that V3, are so close in precision out to 100Y it's hard to see any difference because they both average around 1.1".
The ES for my 22rf with match ammo is 40fps and the slugs are 15 fps. However once in a while the 22rf has a shot that goes much slower due to, I can only guess, having less powder in it.
The 22rf seems easier to shoot to hit with. The V3 is very close behind my 22rf.
As far as in top level BR comps the 22rf with lot tested ammo also seems?? to be dominant, and same with PRS or NRL type matches.
PCP's with slugs are closing in on 22rf in a few ways but at the same time exceed it in others, specially much lower ES, and the availability of higher BC slugs.
22rf is less hassle if that's a main concern but match ammo is getting really expensive.
In my tuned Vulcan 3 the 60gr Altaros slugs are going 862 fps which is 99.02 fpe and the G1 BC is .245.
These slugs blow less in the wind than the 22rf but go slower so they have more drop up to around 400 yards when the slugs are going the same velocity as the 22rf because of that higher BC.
Edit, Keep in mind a V3 "HP" is capable of another 100+ fps with that same slug.
Practically speaking both my two guns, one a 22rf match rifle, and the other that V3, are so close in precision out to 100Y it's hard to see any difference because they both average around 1.1".
The ES for my 22rf with match ammo is 40fps and the slugs are 15 fps. However once in a while the 22rf has a shot that goes much slower due to, I can only guess, having less powder in it.
The 22rf seems easier to shoot to hit with. The V3 is very close behind my 22rf.
As far as in top level BR comps the 22rf with lot tested ammo also seems?? to be dominant, and same with PRS or NRL type matches.
PCP's with slugs are closing in on 22rf in a few ways but at the same time exceed it in others, specially much lower ES, and the availability of higher BC slugs.
22rf is less hassle if that's a main concern but match ammo is getting really expensive.
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I love air guns,but even 65old target.22RF are going to be hard to beat.Plus you can use short subsonic rounds for quieter shots.Fact is it is fun to try to get your air rifles to do as good as a good.22rf can do..22rf are easier to shoot better.Ah,my goal is to be able to shoot a PCP as good as my target .22. Shot string,sorry do not have,but without trying too hard and non target ammo my Anschutz 54.Silhouette can do better than 50cent size at 100 yards,yes it can do a lot better than that.
I think the goal is fun to chase.The goal is set,you need to be able to do 25cent size groups at 100 yards to be able to brag,um a quarter is about 1",ok, I think 2" is good enough for now.
I think the goal is fun to chase.The goal is set,you need to be able to do 25cent size groups at 100 yards to be able to brag,um a quarter is about 1",ok, I think 2" is good enough for now.
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I hear good things about that Altaros slug ammo for air rifles. Seems like you could* have a bit ways to push that Altaros slug faster? say closer to 1,100 fps? wow....60 grains at 1,000 plus feet per seconds with a BC of 0.245 could blow that 22LR round bye bye...
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I'm tinkering with a budget 25 cal Air Venturi Avenger with a few mods. I've been able to tune it to 2,500 psi reg pressure, and 1 turn on HS. I'm pushing 30 grain NSA slugs 1,014 fps for a good 24 shots or 3 mags and a standard deviation spread of +/-3 feet per second from average speed. I've been impressed with the capability of these air rifles and can just imagine what a solid FX or Daystate can do. I also noticed that 22LRs that I compare as a baseline are also in the 1,000 fps range (not over 1,200 fps) for accuracy purposes. My burn is that although the stats in performance I am getting are decent with the 25 cal air rifle I'm struggling with its accuracy. It's basically 2 shots back to back hole in hole and then a random flier on the 3rd shot up above or below the two. That's a horrible accuracy with a 33% flier rate...Hence, why I asked earlier in one of my posts what's a good 25 caliber slug and speed that yields the best accuracy from your experience?
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25 cal on small game is lethal. Tree rats when getting smashed by a 25 cal pellet/slug going 900 fps sounds like a balloons pop when get hit
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To improve accuracy on an air rifle that has that tight of fps consistency you may need to work on the barrel bore or crown for imperfections, or how it is loading the slugs. Alternatively, weight sorting and matching the slugs helps with fliers. And also try running silicone lubed slugs to see if those are more consistent shot for shot.
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Might want to try H&N slugs too. I got a sample pack recently to try in my Caiman X. It seems to like the 21 grain best. I need to spend more time in tuning but so far accuracy with slugs is noticeably worse than pellets. 1/4 to 1/2 inch 5 shot groups at 30 yards. Pellets will pretty consistently give me 1/4 inch groups (a raged hole).
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