HW/Weihrauch HW30 Vortek Tuning Question

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maxtrouble

maxtrouble

Member
Feb 24, 2018
3,193
4,799
Taylor Michigan USA
I left my HW30 cocked and loaded for about three months. Speed was down to 530 when I ran it over the chronograph. I had a Vortek Steel kit PG4 for the rifle and installed it this weekend with the VAC seal. No issues with the install, everything went smoothly.

I ran it across the chronograph with H&N FTT 8.64's and was only able to get 580 fps for about 6.5 fpe. Vortek's website says the kit is good for 7 to 9.5 fpe with the VAC seal installed.

I cleaned the inside out and used a small amount of the grease included with the kit. I applied a small amount on the outside of the VAC seal and spring as instructed. Was a simple install with no drama. However it is slower than I expected.

Any recommendations on how to get it a bit hotter? What did I do wrong for it to be so slow? I have shot about a hundred pellets through it and no changes to velocity.

I am wondering what tuning secret I am missing.

Thanks in advance!
 
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A.G.R said:
Report back as I Am Curious to what transpires. Do your self a favor and ring the piston , .125 parting tool lots of lube and slower speed. YOU HAVE A LATHE. or mill the buttons in .. The glue on buttons are gonna fall off and you will get side galling. It’s not if. , it’s when.
Click to expand...
AGR,

- I haven't EVER had a problem with ARH buttons coming off once they're in the compression chamber?
I tried plastic buttons from a water bottle once, cut out with a paper punch, but they came off almost immediately after (big failure).
-> A ring or milled in buttons would definitely be better, but my Harbor Freight lathe likely isn't up to the task .... I don't have a mill.
 
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Mycapt65 said:
Huh?

BTW I know you like them but you're kinda wasting your time with buttons on an Hw30. There's no rear side load on the piston.

I'm looking forward to your results

I had my Peep sighted 30 out yesterday and it's still making 8.2 fpe clean with 7.33 RS.

Be well
Ron
Click to expand...
What -> o_O

Ron,
I had tuned/buttoned a HW30S back in 2016, the already flared skirt made if difficult for them to get past the cut outs on the receiver.
However, the shot cycle was great (ARH spring) - the buttons reduced power as the gun struggled to hit 610 fps.

When I bought another HW30S in 2019 and tuned it (ARH spring), I left off the buttons as you're suggesting. The shot cycle on this newer gun never matched the older one with buttons - less solid cocking & hollow sounding shot cycle. The gun only shot a little faster at 620/625 fps?

Hence, upon re-tuning the 2019 gun, I added the more powerful Vortek spring / piston seal to increase power ... and the buttons which reduce power a tad.

So ............ let's see what I'll get - try to hold back the Gremlins :p .
 
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SpiralGroove said:
What -> o_O

Ron,
I had tuned/buttoned a HW30S back in 2016, the already flared skirt made if difficult for them to get past the cut outs on the receiver.
However, the shot cycle was great (ARH spring) - the buttons reduced power as the gun struggled to hit 610 fps.

When I bought another HW30S in 2019 and tuned it (ARH spring), I left off the buttons as you're suggesting. The shot cycle on this newer gun never matched the older one with buttons - less solid cocking & hollow sounding shot cycle. The gun only shot a little faster at 620/625 fps?

Hence, upon re-tuning the 2019 gun, I added the more powerful Vortek spring / piston seal to increase power ... and the buttons which reduce power a tad.

So ............ let's see what I'll get - try to hold back the Gremlins :p .
Click to expand...
The buttons when done correctly shouldn't slow the gun down at all. As you home roll your own kits and use different lubes I have no ideas on their potential power and smoothness.

A perfectly centered piston makes for a smoother more efficient rifle. This is easily accomplished by centering the latch rod. Use the buttons if you like but you're splitting miniscule results. The largest gains in cocking smoothness comes from dressing the cocking arms and simply using it.

My 30s cock like butter because they've both been shot tens of thousands of times.
 
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Guys, put about 25 rounds through it - almost all dieseling done ... I think.

Next ten shots over the crony were:
1) 711 6) 695
2) 698 7) 694
3) 704 8) 688
4) 693 9) 687
5) 690 10) 703

- Ave. 696.3 or 7.89 FPE
- ES - 24 or 3.45% :unsure:

Will run another 10 shots over the crony later today & see if anything changes. From what I've read, as the Vortek piston seal breaks in -> velocity goes up a tad. Hopefully, we'll stay around 700+ fps or roughly 8 FPE.

Notes:
Cocking effort increased a little, but not bad (after all how could a HW30S be hard to cock). Shot cycle very solid feeling - a bit snappier ;).
 
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SpiralGroove said:
Guys, put about 25 rounds through it - almost all dieseling done ... I think.

Next ten shots over the crony were:
1) 711 6) 695
2) 698 7) 694
3) 704 8) 688
4) 693 9) 687
5) 690 10) 703

- Ave. 696.3 or 7.89 FPE
- ES - 24 or 3.45% :unsure:

Will run another 10 shots over the crony later today & see if anything changes. From what I've read, as the Vortek piston seal breaks in -> velocity goes up a tad. Hopefully, we'll stay around 700+ fps or roughly 8 FPE.

Notes:
Cocking effort increased a little, but not bad (after all how could a HW30S be hard to cock). Shot cycle very solid feeling - a bit snappier ;).
Click to expand...
Nice work, when breaking the barrel does it have immediate tension. In my .20 cal it’s under load at break. The. It’s a fluid cock but solid all the way. No load up. I’m wondering as the actual PG4 kit has a shorter spring with less coils and I may change to what you did.
 
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SpiralGroove said:
Guys, put about 25 rounds through it - almost all dieseling done ... I think.

Next ten shots over the crony were:
1) 711 6) 695
2) 698 7) 694
3) 704 8) 688
4) 693 9) 687
5) 690 10) 703

- Ave. 696.3 or 7.89 FPE
- ES - 24 or 3.45% :unsure:

Will run another 10 shots over the crony later today & see if anything changes. From what I've read, as the Vortek piston seal breaks in -> velocity goes up a tad. Hopefully, we'll stay around 700+ fps or roughly 8 FPE.

Notes:
Cocking effort increased a little, but not bad (after all how could a HW30S be hard to cock). Shot cycle very solid feeling - a bit snappier ;).
Click to expand...
Sounds like a nice piece of equipment. Could the dieseling be caused by the “superlube” you are using? Never heard of using that before. Unless you are referring to “ultralube” which was a Beeman branded chamber lube (I think it was a silicone/moly blend).
 
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Silver Ace said:
Sounds like a nice piece of equipment. Could the dieseling be caused by the “superlube” you are using? Never heard of using that before. Unless you are referring to “ultralube” which was a Beeman branded chamber lube (I think it was a silicone/moly blend).
Click to expand...
Yes, it's SuperLube w/PTFE synthetic grease. Charlie Da Tuna on the GTA used to recommend it for spring piston, compression chambers.
However, if I didn't already have a 5 year supply of ARH lubes & SuperLube .... I would go with Krytox. It's been proven to be the best.

Superlube does combust in the compression chamber, so a little goes a long way.
 
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A.G.R said:
Nice work, when breaking the barrel does it have immediate tension. In my .20 cal it’s under load at break. The. It’s a fluid cock but solid all the way. No load up. I’m wondering as the actual PG4 kit has a shorter spring with less coils and I may change to what you did.
Click to expand...
Yes, it does have immediate tension.
I almost maxed out the 3.125" piston space with (25) .113" Vortek coils (I got a uncut spring .... 35 coils w/un-closed ends) + .160” T-H = 2.985".
I wanted to fully compress the spring to get max power as I could always cut coils if it was too harsh. Now that I've tested it, I could have 23/24 active coils instead of compressing the last (3) the way I did. I wanted to use the spring for spacing instead of a longer Top-Hat.

I'm going to run another 10 shot string and see what I get .............. :unsure:.
 
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SpiralGroove said:
Yes, it's SuperLube w/PTFE synthetic grease. Charlie Da Tuna on the GTA used to recommend it for spring piston, compression chambers.
However, if I didn't already have a 5 year supply of ARH lubes & SuperLube .... I would go with Krytox. It's been proven to be the best.

Superlube does combust in the compression chamber, so a little goes a long way.
Click to expand...
Ahh ok. I will have to give this krytox a try. Didn’t realize it was proven to be the best.

My chamber lube knowledge is from the 90’s / early 2000’s.

Haven’t tried the new fangled stuff yet
 
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Hey Silver,
If you use Krytox, first you need to strip the entire gun of all petroleum lubes as they cannot be mixed.
Hence, Krytox is the only lube you will use with the guns internals other than for surface lube (Remoil, CLP etc.).
- Talk to Ron, he knows about this and believe tunes all his guns using Krytox.

https://www.amazon.com/Krytox-Grease-Pure-PFPE-PTFE/dp/B00MWLDALQ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=3MTBJPUG4PD2N&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.GxF0Qa_WOV0IdyQdN7b2l61hrMlUDGaGK9cWmeRfz-oxjC3qsBRXwFnrIBMsXe25e8DQlbnFNfesVNFUD0ph8ZJGBOPh5rhXPZxebX-9CI1PnMvwEr6ZB1QOFSl7ZwMgUdvahT3Jbadf-LtyLtiZKAN0_Cft9rKVT8qd-p2Lb8g1sRzhF_Orm9RX-l_TqFv-Dnxrha5ttSFqtbTu_b9HufHyvxFI3GixJuQiW0jxmhg.q7tUyoNBsyu8KJmuQ2GxJbaKahinYjcPS_gWNvH3WX8&dib_tag=se&keywords=krytox+gpl+205&qid=1742861937&sprefix=krytox,aps,222&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1
 
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SpiralGroove said:
Talk to Ron, he knows about this and I believe does all his tunes using Krytox.
Click to expand...
Nope. The stuff is stupid expensive and its benefits are minimal over conventional lubes when properly built. I now only use krytox on guns with compromised comp tubes that are prone to excessive dieseling.

You're right in that you can't mix and match lubes with krytox. I've tried. It turns into a gummy sticky mess. It's krytox or petroleum lubes.

It's no big deal to change from one to another. A good stripping with brake parts cleaner will be fine. There's alot of BS surrounding the subject.
 
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Had my scoped 30 out tonight before sundown. I checked the zero at 25 and started swatting a motrin bottle at 52 yards, and a soup can at 70. I went 7 out of 10 on a 4" plate at 93 yards..
20250324_192051.jpg
you can see the orange plate in line with the barrel.
20250324_192028.jpg

A good running little gun. 8.2 fpe with an extreme spread of 11 over 64 shots.

I love these things
 
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Mycapt65 said:
Nope. The stuff is stupid expensive and its benefits are minimal over conventional lubes when properly built. I now only use krytox on guns with compromised comp tubes that are prone to excessive dieseling.

You're right in that you can't mix and match lubes with krytox. I've tried. It turns into a gummy sticky mess. It's krytox or petroleum lubes.

It's no big deal to change from one to another. A good stripping with brake parts cleaner will be fine. There's alot of BS surrounding the subject.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I’ll stick with the tried and true stuff. I probably have a lifetime supply from Maccari
 
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