.04 MOA All Day Long If I Do My Part.

[tommyb]

Mike, Can we promote Lou to Thomas salseman of the year? He has earned it.

Ricochet - I agree. Lou has earned it. He is at “every” N50 match for the last few years. He has seen a few AGs compete.

My hope is that the AG industry really focuses on making a great 50Y and 100Y slug gun besides the Panthera .22 caliber and the Thomas slug gun next year.

Mike N wants the competition. Bring it on, we all benefit from variety.

 

[beerthief]

View attachment 420308
Now that I have finished tuning my Piatt/Thomas for the selected pellet, I have shot 12 cards with all record shots cutting the 10 ring indoors at 20 yards.

I have learned that 4 factors affect the POI:

1. Rest to rifle torque.
2. Regulator reset time.
3. How far the pellet is inserted in the chamber.
4. Sighter shot dispersion determines POA and therefore POI.

From reading Mike's posts, disagreeing with him, and then finally learning from him, and then applying what I learned, my scores improved and I became a consistent shooter. The most important lesson learned from Mike is that my sighter groups show me dispersion and to set my POA based on that dispersion.

The only time my POA is the center of the 10 ring is when I shoot my sighters and I always shoot 5 rounds per sighter.

Rest to rifle torque.? like a vise gripping the rifle ? or the pressure you exert on the rifle in the rest ?

 

[Loufish]

After you buy Ben. Then maybe SOTY.

 

[Ricochet]

After you buy Ben. Then maybe SOTY.

maybe one day.

 

[Troy Bakel]

Rest to rifle torque.? like a vise gripping the rifle ? or the pressure you exert on the rifle in the rest ?

When using a bag topped front rest and a mechanical rear rest (PQP in my case) and adjusting both elevation and windage from the rear rest, the front bag ears contact the rider for nearly an inch on each side. When sweeping this target full width from bull 3 to bull 4 the front bag ears will place a side torque on the rifle. A shot will move the POA as the gun's vibration releases the torque before the pellet leaves the barrel.

As such, I set my initial POA then raise the butt of the rifle slightly off the rear rest and drop it, then reset my POA.

 

[beerthief]

When using a bag topped front rest and a mechanical rear rest (PQP in my case) and adjusting both elevation and windage from the rear rest, the front bag ears contact the rider for nearly an inch on each side. When sweeping this target full width from bull 3 to bull 4 the front bag ears will place a side torque on the rifle. A shot will move the POA as the gun's vibration releases the torque before the pellet leaves the barrel.

As such, I set my initial POA then raise the butt of the rifle slightly off the rear rest and drop it, then reset my POA.

my front rest , micro adjusts to center the bull (1,2,3,4,5 ) but the rest top also swivels so no torque .

 

[igolfat8]

@beerthief are you referencing the Randolph Machine front rest? That is the only one that I am aware of that swivels.

 

[thomasair]

Even if the front top swivels.... you can get torque from the ears of the rear bag.

 

[igolfat8]

What if the rear rest swivels too like Randolph’s?

 

[tommyb]

Following with much interest.

I use an Accu-Tac bipod and a Randolph for front rest with a rear Protektor bag with full sand and ears.

I am now wondering if I am unintentionally creating torque when I adjust my rear bag. If so, how do I not do this?

I suppose the answer might be to buy an adjustable one or two piece mechanical rest, but would appreciate your thoughts.

 

[thomasair]

What if the rear rest swivels too like Randolph’s?

Never used one.

 

[igolfat8]

@tommyb I think a 1 piece rest has far less torque issues than a 2 piece set up.

 

[thomasair]

Tommy...A one piece will surely eliminate torque issues...but don't be mislead to think you will definitely improve your scores with 1 over a 2 piece. You might... if you don't carefully set up your 2 piece (which has been pointed out to you by others) but you may incur other issues. Poi may not be the same over the range of travel on the 1 piece, too. There are a lot of joints in a mechanical rest and they don't always conduct vibrations the same each shot. It's can be a can of worms. The more accurate your rifle is...the more you notice it.

 

[Ricochet]

I've used several set ups, and regardless of what your using, every system has a sweet spot, and setting it up exactly the same way on different benches is hard to do. I shoot off a wood bench, and my set up performs much differently off a solid concrete bench. Knowing these things and being able to correct them in short order is a big part of benchrest sucess imo.

 

[beerthief]

What if the rear rest swivels too like Randolph’s?

the whole bag would have to slide on a track in a semi circle to not have torque .

 

[beerthief]

@beerthief are you referencing the Randolph Machine front rest? That is the only one that I am aware of that swivels.

no i have a Protector front rest ,is not made to swivel , but does swivel a bit , enough to not exert torque shooting @ 50 yard targets.
My back bag is of the same make but the ears are soft filled , almost squishy ?

 

[tommyb]

In other words, no matter what you use, there’s only a million things to be concerned about.

 

[Troy Bakel]

Following with much interest.

I use an Accu-Tac bipod and a Randolph for front rest with a rear Protektor bag with full sand and ears.

I am now wondering if I am unintentionally creating torque when I adjust my rear bag. If so, how do I not do this?

I suppose the answer might be to buy an adjustable one or two piece mechanical rest, but would appreciate your thoughts.

When using my Bald Eagle front (on which I mounted a Protektor thin eared bag) and a heavy sand, nearly non squeezable Protecktor rear bag - I move my POA to the next bull using the Eagle, make the rifle ready, lift the butt slightly while lightly pushing forward, then I drop the butt. Reset my POA.

I only use my thumb and forefinger to fire the rifle, I don't touch the bench at all during aiming or fireing or even look through the scope while firing.

I have my Thomas trigger set as low as safely possible.

 

[tommyb]

When using my Bald Eagle front (on which I mounted a Protektor thin eared bag) and a heavy sand, nearly non squeezable Protecktor rear bag - I move my POA to the next bull using the Eagle, make the rifle ready, lift the butt slightly while lightly pushing forward, then I drop the butt. Reset my POA.

I only use my thumb and forefinger to fire the rifle, I don't touch the bench at all during aiming or fireing or even look through the scope while firing.

I have my Thomas trigger set as low as safely possible.

Thanks..

I assume this process is used only when you have a mechanical front rest vs. using a bipod like an Accu-Tac for example. In other words, can you use your same process with a front bipod vs. a mechanical rest?

That aside, let me make sure I am following what you do here Troy.

So, you use the side adjust on your Bald Eagle mechanical front rest to "move your cross hairs to the adjacent bull," and then lift the butt of your rear protektor bag while pushing forward; and then drop the butt of your rear Protektor bag and reset your POA for the next bull. Is that right?

Also, since I don't have a Thomas, I do cradle my body around my rear bag with light cheek weld and I typically have 6-8oz 2nd stage release on my triggers. I totally understand the notion of not touching the bench or your gun and not looking thru the scope -- but if I had to do all of that, I would get another hobby.

In other words, I want to feel the gun and look through the scope and pull the trigger when I shoot from the bench, but I do get why others use the approach you mention. Not a critique, just not me.

I also will admit that not touching the bench, the gun or the trigger on a solid front and rear rest set up, can remove many of the errors that I wrestle with using my traditional approach.

 

[thomasair]

Thanks..

I assume this process is used only when you have a mechanical front rest vs. using a bipod like an Accu-Tac for example. In other words, can you use your same process with a front bipod vs. a mechanical rest?

That aside, let me make sure I am following what you do here Troy.

So, you use the side adjust on your Bald Eagle mechanical front rest to "move your cross hairs to the adjacent bull," and then lift the butt of your rear protektor bag while pushing forward; and then drop the butt of your rear Protektor bag and reset your POA for the next bull. Is that right?

Also, since I don't have a Thomas, I do cradle my body around my rear bag with light cheek weld and I typically have 6-8oz 2nd stage release on my triggers. I totally understand the notion of not touching the bench or your gun and not looking thru the scope -- but if I had to do all of that, I would get another hobby.

In other words, I want to feel the gun and look through the scope and pull the trigger when I shoot from the bench, but I do get why others use the approach you mention. Not a critique, just not me.

I also will admit that not touching the bench, the gun or the trigger on a solid front and rear rest set up, can remove many of the errors that I wrestle with using my traditional approach.

Very few shooters don't look through the scope when firing. Thats kind of a bush league technique if you ask me. I'm always making last second adjustments before firing...so if I wasn't constantly looking through the scope would be problematic. By all means... hug you gun if you think it helps.

Mike