100 yards and beyond…?

[steve123]

I'm acutely aware of all the differences, and it won't take long for newbs to figure out that shooting pellets at 100Y and trying for MOA is not without it's frustrations, especially with wind involved. I think we all FOMO into things and see those "oh it's not like I thought it would be's" differently once we get hit by reality.
But they can still have fun at closer distances so no biggy.

As far as 22rf the match grade ammo that is more precise for long range has gotten expensive and the ES isn't great so those are some downsides. The more powerful rimfire rounds suffer even worse for ES except they are going 1800 fps to 3000 fps which makes up some for the low ES. But again it's getting expensive and a little over kill sometimes. Plus tiny 17gr bullets are very hard to spot where in the dirt or grass you missed at long range distances so not easy to know where to correct to.
That being said I have a little centerfire 5mm cartridge that absolutely destroys all these and isn't expensive because I reload for it. They all have their place and I'm glad I can pick which one I want to use right then.

Most of us would be in legal trouble if we got caught shooting firearms inside our property. Heck I'm surrounded by FS on 3 sides of my property but I'm not 400Y from the closest house so........ In other words I have the space but am constrained otherwise.
However I can hunt small game right off my property with airguns or can drive 20 minutes to shoot firearms. The PD's were up last week and I used my 17HMR.

Airguns - like others mentioned for us it's often grabbing the most appropriate tool for the job. Pellets - 6fpe up close, 20 fpe close to 80Y, 30 fpe the same as the 20 fpe. Even if I had a 100+fpe 30 cal pellet gun I still wouldn't want to shoot at 100Y because the 80 fpe 30 I used wasn't good at 100Y.
Slugs is another story - it's crazy how superior a mid powered pcp gun is with slugs as distance increases, like hundreds of yards, and it's cheap enough ammo wise to go for it all you want.
Also at 100Y the high BC slugs hardly blow in the wind compared to pellets.
Personal examples - not using wind flags, but shooting with pellets, when shooting in 12-ish mph full value winds, I've had groups as wide as 8" at 100Y and I was trying hard but the let offs and gusts were killing me.
Last week in worse condition's of a few more MPH, using slugs with a .18 G1 BC, I could keep all the shots inside 2.5" at 100Y.
With pellets it was frustrating but with slugs it was a lot of fun.
1 MOA isn't easy to do with 22rf at 100Y, nor with slugs, but if you have a good shooting slug/gun combo it's closer than I once thought, and when using pellets in any wind it's much harder to do MOA.
I'd rather not shoot pellets at 100Y except for messing around which brings back my personal conclusion that no I'll stay with slugs instead for longer distances.

"But to what end?" For me it's about what I enjoy and for you all it is most likely not the same as how I feel.

 

[Motorhead]

Nearly all my practical use for an Air Gun is inside 100 yards be it Pleasure or competition in Field target.
Following the tech in PCP's and working with it have as many others were drawn into the world of SLUG and / or heavy pellet shooting at ranges that exceed 100 yards.
Pellets no matter caliber really have a hard time at 100 yards with a very real progression in how the small & light .177's fizzle out before .22 then .25 to .30 caliber.
We read stuff all the time ( Brags if you will ) on how spectacular ones "Pellet Gun" does at these let's say long distances .. which I don't doubt as I too have have those times where way out there stuff was getting hit that created equal pride of doing so !!
* But it is no where close to typical IMO for most shooters of pellet guns to actually shoot pellets way the hell out there having any degree of we'll say consistent POA/ POI consistency. Wind and pellets is not an ideal marriage
Wind and Slugs now that is much better .... WHEN said pellet gun has a barrel that can shoot a slug well & has the power to send it typically faster than an equal weigh pellet.

As to the chasing of MOA specification accuracy on paper ( Only way one really knows ) to a more simplified viewpoint of "If or not I'm hitting what aimed at"
For my use of a pellet gun at longer distances, yes i will indeed shoot slugs being preferred over a pellet ... and the use in doing so is PEST extermination where, Hit in the head, hit in the ass really does not mater so much. For a pest hit is generally a pest dead & don't get so caught up into specific placement !!! .... Why, Because shots are Way the hell out there !! and wind, errors in range & and whole slew of factors are in play that you as a shooter can only try & mitigate, but never really have a 100% handle on.

When at distance & what ever critters or a target being hit with what we'll call Absolute confidence ... I ignite Gun Powder

 

[John "spysir" Blount]

Agree with most everyone so far.
Airguns are for pellets, sure you could dump a bit of ash and shoot slugs further but why.
.177 rules! (even at 55 yards) drag stabilized, safe -naturally as long as you are thinking. They teach shooting skills, personally ca not figure out why people do not want to improve their shooting Cheaply. The longest Squirrel hunting I've taken with great conditions in the seated FT position was 73 yards with a very clean brain shot.
I have shot using a bag at 110 yards with a "12fpe" QB78/HPA in winds just to see. 3 5 shots groups averaging 2". I thought that pretty good -50% of pellets did not puncture the card board baker and at 120 yards NO grouping-. Fun but only bothered to try it once.
Agree most shooter an not shoot MOA at 100 (or even 50) . Yes some can (with the right gear) but why?
Programs to shoot (chairgun...) nah. Why not just learn ranging , wind doping .... .
I do have a .25 Escape thinking I needed it for the 7 Marmots in the front yard (20 acres) and didn't want to chance a ricochet crossing a road at 600 yards so regular pellets seemed the way to go, I thought they were tough critter. Money not so well spent as I did take the last 2 with a 20fpe .177 and brain shots. I do have a 2" metal spinner at 73 yards and it is sometimes fun to watch it spin around but personally more fun with the .177's.
Seems some may use quite .35's & such in urban areas, not something I would do.
Hat's off to people who are shooting 400+ with great success but years ago I had a 320HP Chevy Vega, fun, costly (very) and not practical, fun but.
I have Not done the math but Hector M. said "The challenge of a small projectile in the wind matches most anything you find out in reality. Consider that shooting a 0.177" pellet at 12 ft-lbs at 55 yards is the ballistic equivalent to shooting a 7.62X51 NATO service round (152 grs) at 350 yards. Same ToF, same drop from bore axis, same wind drift." ? Math may or may not be perfect but after Learning the .177 cal And powder burner is easier.
I did used to enjoy Yrrah (down under I believe) way back with shooting an traditional (orings last 10+ years and there were just a couple) FX using pellets at 100 yards but he did practice, massage & tweak his rig.
1st pre-charged I use was the Daystate 13mm, some years later purchased a 9mm Fire 201 then the Career 707II in .25 but they day I discovered pre-charged .177 I was sold.

John

 

[blackdog899]

I am a parlor shooter like Blackdog.
All my 10m work pays off when I go on safari. Even then most of my shooting is 50 or less.
When I risk the outdoors at home, I stay within the law, smaller than .178 and less than 700fps. But even then, the risk of attracting Blackhawks is too great.

I did some 100 yard shooting last year, standing, poorly supported and not enough velocity. Hitting a paper plate, but I was basically out of hold over.
I will give another try with a different setup if there is time.
But it’s hard to shoot paper when surrounded by chirping little striped devils.

I am a 50-60 max range guy for now, and plenty happy.

Seems I’ve been scared off from shooting in my yard with some of the stories on here about neighbors and cops. I think I could have had a nice 35 yard range with my shed as an enclosed bench area. Anyway I hope to be able walk unimpeded
in about a month and can make it to my rarely visited club range. Anxious to see what these accumulated guns can do at fifty.
I’ve bench rested 22lr in matches and know what it means by a perfect score tie determined by Xs. To me this will show me something to compare. I shot 5 shots in cellar ( 13 yards) with my main 22lr, and it leaves a bit of room for me to say
SO FAR my pcp’s can‘t keep up. One perfect 22 cal hole with Eley Match. I have come close with hundreds of groups
with pellets…
Mike

 

[Franklink]

I've pigeonholed myself into small bore airguns, of modest power. I don't like to feed anything beyond about 50fpe, with air nor ammunition. I don't like the downrange safety concerns of even rimfire power levels. And I enjoy getting to watch the pellet/slug fly downrange and go where I want it to, without the bucking bronco effect we see with even high powered airguns. And I REALLY REALLY REALLY enjoy stretching out the distances and seeing how far I can hit stuff.

So, the bulk of my airgun shooting is in the 19-35fpe range. And with my best long range 34fpe airgun and slugs with a BC of 0.09-0.1, prairie dog sized, or even starling/euro dove sized vermin out to 200 yards are at risk of getting smacked by an air-fired projectile.

The challenge of hitting something waaaaayyyyy out there is the draw for me. And I simply get the most enjoyment out of doing so with minimal headaches for hit on the wallet ($$$/shot), shot counts, air procurement, and energy retention past the intended target.

An example....couple weeks ago I attended an Ultimate Field Target event. What sticks out in my mind more than where I placed was the fun I had shooting at a partially deflated mylar balloon at 191 yards. A small bundle of them had gotten snagged in some desert brush WAAAYYY out there past one of the field targets. After I took my last official shots of the match, I ranged that thing with my rangefinder, dialed in the dope, and watched a slug scatter some ground cover behind the balloon, in what would have been a 6-8inch high shot. Took a couple clicks off and proceeded to hit that balloon 6 or so times, enough to decide it wasn't just luck.

As a previous poster shared, a pest at less than 75 yards just doesn't even feel fair anymore. It's like flipping a light switch, it just is. Perhaps it's cuz I've seen so much pellet on pellet accuracy at the more reasonable sub 55yard airgun ranges, but nowadays, it's the successful looooonnngggg shots that make me giggle.

 

[ChefSparrowRagazzi]

Seems I’ve been scared off from shooting in my yard with some of the stories on here about neighbors and cops. I think I could have had a nice 35 yard range with my shed as an enclosed bench area. Anyway I hope to be able walk unimpeded
in about a month and can make it to my rarely visited club range. Anxious to see what these accumulated guns can do at fifty.
I’ve bench rested 22lr in matches and know what it means by a perfect score tie determined by Xs. To me this will show me something to compare. I shot 5 shots in cellar ( 13 yards) with my main 22lr, and it leaves a bit of room for me to say
SO FAR my pcp’s can‘t keep up. One perfect 22 cal hole with Eley Match. I have come close with hundreds of groups
with pellets…
Mike

You mean like this?

 

[blackdog899]

You mean like this?

Haa ! I wonder if the buyer could equal it

 

[stoutblock]

Just because you can does not mean you should. I grew up using rimfire and center fire options but not possible anywhere I have lived in modern times (rightfully so). Airguns are more challenging to be effective but effective they can be. After several years of using only airguns I recently had a chance to utilize my PBers in an open rural area. It was way too easy. I think airgun use has actually improved my PBing shooting skills? Under a hundred yards they are comparable. Over a hundred yards there really is no comparison IMHO. I shot my friends Browning Creedmore and must say there is no comparison at 200+ yards. None. But, the challange of our long range airguns sure is fun

 

[L.Leon]

Love pesting starling @ 100 and beyond. Never cared for groups after zero. Starlings and steel at over 100 is fun and challenging. The right gun and Strelok pro makes it very doable . My guns of choice for the task is. Airgun revisions m257, Az tuned Raw hm1000x. 30 and Daystate alpha wolf .22. When not at farm have 100 backyard range. Yes, I shoot a lot. To each his own. Stay well my friends.

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“Never cared for groups after zero” Love it… same here, once zeroed… lot’s of pliniking where only the first shot counts… Then its off to do some pest control.

No. I'm afraid, It's not.
1 moa at 50 yards is 1/2 inch. Airguns do that with astounding consistency.
Many airguns achieve better than that.
It's very realistic.

Of course it is, but consistently? For the majority of shooters sending? Is the question…

We all have our perspectives and opinions based on our current shooting world view. And they may change as our needs, equipment, and available shooting opportunities present themselves.
When I got back into airguns a little over 5 years ago, 30 yards was "out there". My first PCP, an FX Bobcat changed that to 50-75 yards. Then my Raptor stretched it to 100 yards.
Although most of my targets were ground squirrels from an infestation at that time, my needs were between 20 and 65 yards. But when I smacked some at 100 yards, that became the new "out there".
I think that perhaps those few that would achieve that range are the ones that want to.
I am to the point that I don't feel it is very sporting of me to shoot a varmint much closer than within a general 50 yard range. And at that range, I would most likely shoot .177 to be a bit sporting.
Those are my thoughts and my experience. Acknowledging we all have our own.

The “sporting” aspect as it applies to animals whether game or pest is…? I may or may not give an animal a pass, but never think of it as “sporting”… Just a pass is all.. I ‘ve smacked” and killed DRT many pigeons at 104 range finder measured yards with my .22 Compatto. But the few instances where I had to trudge out there to dispatch a not quite dead yet pigeon? Tempered my longer range shooting…

 

[HenryK]

I love my airguns for the practical to me, sub 60 yards pesting/plinking opportunities I may encounter… That said, I understand that there are a select few, who through due diligence and many, many rounds downrange. May achieve consistent 5 shot, 1 MOA groups at 100 yards, whether with pellets or slugs… And have kills on film to prove it… That said it is not the norm for the majority. And it is incongruous to why the majority come to airguns in the first place. I understand that many willl justifiably push the limits of what airguns, particularly PCPs can do. But to what end? To duplicate the ballistics of a .22 rimfire or .22 rimfire magnum? Heck, if you have the space to unleash that much power? Why not simply use a powder burner? For me? Personally, where airguns shine is in their traditional roles as short range target, plinking, pesting, hunting guns… For the average Joe, expecting to send 5 or 10 shot, 1 MOA groups at 100 yards, or even 50 yards? Is simply unrealistic… Mucho hype of late in the over 100 yards ranges, but very, very few will achieve those results… Within their practical parameters, airgun simply shine… So why try and turn them into powder burner equivalents? The purpose of this post is to sincerely query those who see it otherwise. And to maybe temper the expectations of those new to the game/hobby…

As a guy that shoots .22lr target and owns an airgun company.....I'll give you my 2 cents.

First off in terms of accurate followup shots a quality airgun runs circles around .22lr in accuracy simply because of the way .22lr is produced at its primer base. If you've ever target shot .22 lr with medium quality ammo there are quite a few "flyers" and that's simply due to the powder charge.

When you compare range, velocity, and projectile weight and diameter you can calculate the energy at impact. .22lr looks good on paper but the airgun is not too far behind,

Airguns will make you a much better shooter as they really tend to amplify mistakes in marksmanship......train with an air rifle get really good and see how it does with centerfire rounds.....you'll be blown away,

Let's not forget airguns do not currently need a background check.

As another person mentioned most people cannot shoot 1 MOA.......an average shooter is in the 3-5 MOA range. Airguns win here,

With regards to velocity, if there were a way to dump more air through a regulator on a PCP rifle....it is conceivable to get to .22lr speed....I've never done it with a PCP rifle but I have done a few thousand Less Lethal mods where it's pretty simple to add another 50% velocity to the rounds coming out. So if you're pushing a 1050 FPS PCP bumping that to 1600 fps may work. But it's still gonna be more accurate than a .22lr.

Hunting noise is less with airgun as many come out of the box moderated (suppressed) and also have a more directional pattern of sound than a powder round going off.

HK

 

[Arkansas_Airgunner]

I don't hunt much anymore as of late, thanks to my work schedule, but I still love to shoot whenever Mother Nature likes to play nice. I get bored with the up close practically in my lap shooting (25‐50 yds) I'm pellet on pellet at 50 yds all because I am a perfectionist. I enjoy stretching out my rifles range to hit further targets and challenge myself to do so. I will put targets out at unknown ranges from me and then try to figure the hold over/under and estimate the distance. I like to challenge myself with small targets, to see how many shots it takes to hit (toothpicks, striking match heads). But thats just me. No pro shooter here nor a competition shooter, just a plain ol' redneck country boy who loves shooting.

 

[markhooper]

As a guy that shoots .22lr target and owns an airgun company.....I'll give you my 2 cents.

First off in terms of accurate followup shots a quality airgun runs circles around .22lr in accuracy simply because of the way .22lr is produced at its primer base. If you've ever target shot .22 lr with medium quality ammo there are quite a few "flyers" and that's simply due to the powder charge.

When you compare range, velocity, and projectile weight and diameter you can calculate the energy at impact. .22lr looks good on paper but the airgun is not too far behind,

Airguns will make you a much better shooter as they really tend to amplify mistakes in marksmanship......train with an air rifle get really good and see how it does with centerfire rounds.....you'll be blown away,

Let's not forget airguns do not currently need a background check.

As another person mentioned most people cannot shoot 1 MOA.......an average shooter is in the 3-5 MOA range. Airguns win here,

With regards to velocity, if there were a way to dump more air through a regulator on a PCP rifle....it is conceivable to get to .22lr speed....I've never done it with a PCP rifle but I have done a few thousand Less Lethal mods where it's pretty simple to add another 50% velocity to the rounds coming out. So if you're pushing a 1050 FPS PCP bumping that to 1600 fps may work. But it's still gonna be more accurate than a .22lr.

Hunting noise is less with airgun as many come out of the box moderated (suppressed) and also have a more directional pattern of sound than a powder round going off.

HK

just thought I'd tell you, I chronograph my airforce Condor 22 caliber it's a new one with the ring lock top hat and if you turn the power wheel to maximum it will throw the 14 grain pellet 1400 fps..
and it's awful loud.. actually to shoot decent with 14 grain pellets you need to put the small .123 ring lock on actually it's better that way to shoot 14-25 grain pellets.. if you shoot heavier pellets like the JSB beast then you are fine with the factory ring lock and about mid power wheel you are just below the speed of sound..
the gun shoots H&N and Zan 40 grain slugs well mid to top power wheel setting.. and smacks my 50 yard spinner harder than my 22lr lever action..
I do like keeping it below supersonic just to avoid the noise..
as far as I know, airforce is the highest power per caliber on air.. but just because you can turn it all the way up, doesn't mean you should..
more air and more noise.
but it's definitely nice to be able to turn down and shoot pellets and turn up and shoot slugs.. I've literally switched between different weights on pellets between shots.. just have to remember when setting is best for which ammo
Mark

 

[357cal]

Just because you can does not mean you should. I grew up using rimfire and center fire options but not possible anywhere I have lived in modern times (rightfully so). Airguns are more challenging to be effective but effective they can be. After several years of using only airguns I recently had a chance to utilize my PBers in an open rural area. It was way too easy. I think airgun use has actually improved my PBing shooting skills? Under a hundred yards they are comparable. Over a hundred yards there really is no comparison IMHO. I shot my friends Browning Creedmore and must say there is no comparison at 200+ yards. None. But, the challange of our long range airguns sure is fun

I strongly agree with pcps being more of a challenge and that's why I am pull to them. When I was working for Uncle Sam, I was lucky enough to pick up how to become a good shot quickly. I was qualified for a number of weapons but, I have never been challenged as much as I have with a pcp at long range. I love a challenge. I no longer have PBs for hunting, I hunt coyote, racoons and woodchucks at long distances 75-200 yards with a 150gr slug so I see no need to hunt with a PBs that have 2800- 4000 fps and the worries of a clean pass thru. I don't judge others who choose to.