N/A .177 for slugs (primarily at least)?!

[Sicumj]

The lead in our first attempt was 1 in 50 which is common with most taper reamers. I read though, a lead of 1 in 100 is preferred. I purchased some non hardened drill rod to make my own reamer then decided to go with the typical 1 in 50 degree. I think that could have been some of our initial issue, too drastic a lead. I would be interested in knowing what degree lead your buddy likes. Another cause of shearing you have to watch for is when cutting the pilot hole in the barrel. It can leave a burr on the inside that causes lead shear. I recently looked at a friends new gun that had that issue.

 

[JaceSpace1369]

Yeah I think that makes a ton of sense!!! Let’s see what it does for you, if it helps a lot I may have to find someone to do the same!

Yup! He's off to the end tomorrow.So I will call him on wednesday and drop off the barrel on thursday. Also I I was shooting the 15gr this morning to make sure it was still on point as the weather has been phucky to say the least. And it starter off around 990 went between 985 and 992 and then dropped to 958, 962, then 974. Made no sense, I knew I was getting close to the reg at about 160b regs at 135-140b. But ai figured maybe it's just dirty or again, the lead. So I pulled a double patch through it, just once, and then shot the remainder of my griffin 16gr and this is the spread I got, from shot 168-178. Got a random 958, unsure why, but it's better than the jumpyness from before. Also these griffins don't shear, they go in nice and smooth.

 

[JaceSpace1369]

The lead in our first attempt was 1 in 50 which is common with most taper reamers. I read though, a lead of 1 in 100 is preferred. I purchased some non hardened drill rod to make my own reamer then decided to go with the typical 1 in 50 degree. I think that could have been some of our initial issue, too drastic a lead. I would be interested in knowing what degree lead your buddy likes. Another cause of shearing you have to watch for is when cutting the pilot hole in the barrel. It can leave a burr on the inside that causes lead shear. I recently looked at a friends new gun that had that issue.

I had no idea that you could do either of those degrees, as I am not all that vy when it comes to tooling machining or anything, although I would love to be. I will ask him which he prefers.

 

[JaceSpace1369]

Sorry, not sure why it didn't show up

 

[OC_]

@Sicumj Put the FX liner in my avenger. Haven't shot it at distance yet but i did get a chrono reading. I installed a hammer spring for a .22/.25 avenger in my gun and im pushing these 15gr NSA's at 1000fps making 33ftlbs.
With the standard 177 spring, it was 950fps for 30ftlbs. I was shocked that the .22/.25 spring only added 50fps. I'm wondering if the 12cc factory plenum is holding it back, so I ordered a larger plenum. The .22 cal gun is rated (on pyramids site) to make 34ftlbs out of the box, so that might be all it has in the factory configuration.

The first barrel we tried was a powder burner liner for a .17hm2. It had a 1:9 twist. It looked promising from Sicumj's testing, but he would only get about 5 good shots before the barrel would foul out. He took a pic of the barrel and it looks pretty bad....

17 cal powder burner barrels are really rare right now. No one has anything in stock so we went with the FX liner.

 

[JaceSpace1369]

@Sicumj Put the FX liner in my avenger. Haven't shot it at distance yet but i did get a chrono reading. I installed a hammer spring for a .22/.25 avenger in my gun and im pushing these 15gr NSA's at 1000fps making 33ftlbs.
With the standard 177 spring, it was 950fps for 30ftlbs. I was shocked that the .22/.25 spring only added 50fps. I'm wondering if the 12cc factory plenum is holding it back, so I ordered a larger plenum. The .22 cal gun is rated (on pyramids site) to make 34ftlbs out of the box, so that might be all it has in the factory configuration.

The first barrel we tried was a powder burner liner for a .17hm2. It had a 1:9 twist. It looked promising from Sicumj's testing, but he would only get about 5 good shots before the barrel would foul out. He took a pic of the barrel and it looks pretty bad....

View attachment 545870
17 cal powder burner barrels are really rare right now. No one has anything in stock so we went with the FX liner.

Wait, did you use a 172 barrel to shoot 177 slugs?

Plenum size will definitely make a difference unless you have a really heavy hammer and spring setup. My old at44 pump 177 could shoot 15gr nsa at 950 for about 6 shots, but that's it. And that's from a 230cc 200b tube, unregulated.

@greenbeans the ko 13.43gr slugs are accurate af even shooting over 1050fps past 100yds! I know they don't deform at point blank range at 930fps, but I'm hoping that they definitely do at this speed, either way, they are very accurate and seem to be a better size than the NSA .178, KO 13.43 .1779

 

[OC_]

Wait, did you use a 172 barrel to shoot 177 slugs?

Plenum size will definitely make a difference unless you have a really heavy hammer and spring setup. My old at44 pump 177 could shoot 15gr nsa at 950 for about 6 shots, but that's it. And that's from a 230cc 200b tube, unregulated.

@greenbeans the ko 13.43gr slugs are accurate af even shooting over 1050fps past 100yds! I know they don't deform at point blank range at 930fps, but I'm hoping that they definitely do at this speed, either way, they are very accurate and seem to be a better size than the NSA .178, KO 13.43 .1779

Initially I had custom made .172 ammo made by Dale. But he sold his dies so we were resizing 177 ammo down to 172. It was working but we ran into the aforementioned barrel issues.

 

[JaceSpace1369]

Initially I had custom made .172 ammo made by Dale. But he sold his dies so we were resizing 177 ammo down to 172. It was working but we ran into the aforementioned barrel issues.

Ahhh gotcha. Well one barrel that will work is the Alpha Precision barrels.

AP Barrelblank 4,5mm OD15mm L720mm T430 | Airgunheaven.com

Cold hammered precision polygon barrelblank for airrifles. This is a blank and must be made fit for your air rifle!

airgunheaven.com

For some reason, I can't find the alpha precision website, but they had options. I got one for my leshiy classic in 350mm and the only issue I had with it was the the choke was too tight. So I had the same buddy I've had work on my barrels cut 3mm from the end, recrown and create a lead. At that point it was too short to fit my LC so I eventually sold it to @weevil and as far as I know he's been making great use of it!

 

[greenbeans]

Wait, did you use a 172 barrel to shoot 177 slugs?

Plenum size will definitely make a difference unless you have a really heavy hammer and spring setup. My old at44 pump 177 could shoot 15gr nsa at 950 for about 6 shots, but that's it. And that's from a 230cc 200b tube, unregulated.

@greenbeans the ko 13.43gr slugs are accurate af even shooting over 1050fps past 100yds! I know they don't deform at point blank range at 930fps, but I'm hoping that they definitely do at this speed, either way, they are very accurate and seem to be a better size than the NSA .178, KO 13.43 .1779

Good to know! So your current reg sends them at 1050? Maybe I’ll go 90ish degrees from original then and see what happens when I get some 13gr…

 

[JaceSpace1369]

Good to know! So your current reg sends them at 1050? Maybe I’ll go 90ish degrees from original then and see what happens when I get some 13gr…

I just double checked and they are going 1028-1030.

 

[greenbeans]

I just double checked and they are going 1028-1030.

Even better!! Thanks!! I’ll try more like 100 degrees then. Currently sitting here with it and shooting some 10gr to empty the bottle… the shot count is insane… plus hella accurate with the 10gr if there’s no wind… makes me wonder. But then, 80% of the days are what I’d consider “somewhat windy” at least. Guess I’ll adjust

 

[JaceSpace1369]

Even better!! Thanks!! I’ll try more like 100 degrees then. Currently sitting here with it and shooting some 10gr to empty the bottle… the shot count is insane… plus hella accurate with the 10gr if there’s no wind… makes me wonder. But then, 80% of the days are what I’d consider “somewhat windy” at least. Guess I’ll adjust

Adjust away! I'm telling ya, 13.43gr may not expand, but at 1030fps in 10-15mph winds they still hold they're own extremely well. As long as the wind is consistent, just make sure to do your holds.

 

[greenbeans]

Adjust away! I'm telling ya, 13.43gr may not expand, but at 1030fps in 10-15mph winds they still hold they're own extremely well. As long as the wind is consistent, just make sure to do your holds.

Shooting the 10gr in 12mph wind right now at 45y. Getting blown 1-1.5 MOA in either direction since wind is flipping around between SSW and NNW. I’m shooting WNW. So you never know whether right, right and high, low or left/left and high… as long as the wind isn’t shifting WHILE I am shooting a specific group I get them tight (like maybe 3/8 - 1/2 of an inch, including a bunch of one ragged hole groups). But the moment wind changes direction or speed it’s a 1in group

 

[JaceSpace1369]

Shooting the 10gr in 12mph wind right now at 45y. Getting blown 1-1.5 MOA in either direction since wind is flipping around between SSW and NNW. I’m shooting WNW. So you never know whether right, right and high, low or left/left and high… as long as the wind isn’t shifting WHILE I am shooting a specific group I get them tight (like maybe 3/8 - 1/2 of an inch, including a bunch of one ragged hole groups). But the moment wind changes direction or speed it’s a 1in group

That's still not bad.

 

[Peashooter]

Hehe yeah .177 will teach you humility, and i suppose sooner or later wind reading abilities.
In the fall last year shooting tree branches over ( 2 - 3 " ones ) at 120 yards, well i did get desperate but then BAM and the damn thing fell to the ground ( a almost vertical growing branch )
It if course took a while and quite a few shots ( predominantly 10 grain ) but in a couple of range outings it was a done deal.

Branch propped up for more long range pruning,

 

[greenbeans]

Hehe yeah .177 will teach you humility, and i suppose sooner or later wind reading abilities.
In the fall last year shooting tree branches over ( 2 - 3 " ones ) at 120 yards, well i did get desperate but then BAM and the damn thing fell to the ground ( a almost vertical growing branch )
It if course took a while and quite a few shots ( predominantly 10 grain ) but in a couple of range outings it was a done deal.

Branch propped up for more long range pruning,

Hahaha true… I guess I need a wind flag now that I have one of the little guys as well

15gr in .22 gets blown around as well but if feel like more predictable… and I mostly shoot 22gr and up anyway. It’s fun though and nice in the branch!!!! Pruning with 10gr, must have taken a ton or two )

 

[greenbeans]

Adjust away! I'm telling ya, 13.43gr may not expand, but at 1030fps in 10-15mph winds they still hold their own extremely well. As long as the wind is consistent, just make sure to do your holds.

Done, now shooting 16gr HN at around 975 and NSA 15gr at around 965 (lol… 1gr less and 10fps slower ). ES/SD suck but maybe the reg needs to settle a bit. Accuracy though?!? Could only shoot at 15y so not really telling too much but at least it didn’t suck

HN:

NSA:

 

[JaceSpace1369]

Done, now shooting 16gr HN at around 975 and NSA 15gr at around 965 (lol… 1gr less and 10fps slower ). ES/SD suck but maybe the reg needs to settle a bit. Accuracy though?!? Could only shoot at 15y so not really telling too much but at least it didn’t suck

HN:

View attachment 546388

View attachment 546391

NSA:
View attachment 546392
View attachment 546393

The results could be worse! I believe I remember @Vetmx saying that when tuning balanced valve guns it takes them about a day to acclimate. Regardless though even at 16yds most people can't get groups like that with slugs. Try cleaning your barrel though, that may bring up the speed of your nielsens. My 16gr griffing go 970, while 15gr NSA go 980-990 and 16.5gr VK go 980fps

 

[greenbeans]

The results could be worse! I believe I remember @Vetmx saying that when tuning balanced valve guns it takes them about a day to acclimate. Regardless though even at 16yds most people can't get groups like that with slugs. Try cleaning your barrel though, that may bring up the speed of your nielsens. My 16gr griffing go 970, while 15gr NSA go 980-990 and 16.5gr VK go 980fps

I cleaned the barrel when I adjusted the reg so was clean when shooting… not sure what’s going on with the NSA… they always went slower than the HN (also with the previous tune before I adjusted for the 10gr…). May actually be the chrony, pocket v2 misses a lot of the shots with them… but it’s too consistent for that I guess. I think you’re onto something with the idea of the lead. The NSA chamber very rough for me, HN slide right in with almost no resistance.

 

[Sicumj]

I noticed when I was shooting several slugs lately. The NSA slugs chambered harder. I think they may be a bit larger and a bit harder.

There is one thousands difference between NSA .1755 and H&N .1745