HW/Weihrauch .20 HW97KT Pellet Performance Comparison Test

[.20calguy]

I'd like to see what you get between the 13s and 11s with H&Ns, with my 95 with peep sights its a wash.

I shot an assortment of pellets and must have fouled the barrel because the my last two shoots with the 97 shot all over the target. It was difficult to find where it was hitting. A very frustrating waist of pellets. I had just opened one of the ten tins of FTT that I just got for testing when this happened. I went back to the JSB's and still no logic to the patterns. So time to scrub some lands and groves.

 

[.20calguy]

I'd like to see what you get between the 13s and 11s with H&Ns, with my 95 with peep sights its a wash.

Enough of me!
What do you mean it's a wash?
They're equal in accuracy?

 

[coastal drifter]

Enough of me!
What do you mean it's a wash?
They're equal in accuracy?

Yes, with peep sights its hard to determine the diference in accuracy as aiming isn't as precise as a scoped rifle so to me they are about the same.
I have been resisting putting a scope on this rifle. Out to 30 yards I can group 1-1.5 with most 5 shot groups if I have something to lean against for support.

 

[Mycapt65]

I shot an assortment of pellets and must have fouled the barrel because the my last two shoots with the 97 shot all over the target. It was difficult to find where it was hitting. A very frustrating waist of pellets. I had just opened one of the ten tins of FTT that I just got for testing when this happened. I went back to the JSB's and still no logic to the patterns. So time to scrub some lands and groves.

Don't scrub the barrel. If you're only shooting H&Ns and JSBs they won't ever negatively foul the barrel long term unless its a poorly cut barrel. That's not happening on a Weihrauch 20. Different manufacturers use different alloys of lead, tin and antimony. One brand can affect the other when switching to another brand. Sometimes a lot. Sometimes it's positive, sometimes it's negative. I never put any value on the first two or three five shot groups after a brand switch. When testing it's best to run three or four Fouling groups after a brand change..

If your groups suddenly went south after a lot of shooting its probably shooter fatigue or piston seal thermal expansion issues. The latter happens during extended sessions or there's dieseling. This is where the seal expands, gets loose on the piston anvil and drag increases. You'll see if you were running a chronograph that your velocity dips 15-20fps and the ES will double.

 

[Mycapt65]

Furthermore scrubbing the barrel removes all the leading that helps accuracy. All but the finest custom hand lapped barrels require some fouling to shoot better. If the term fouling is negative to you use the term seasoning. After scrubbing a barrel aggressively it can take a hundred or more shots to season a barrel again. Most airguns will lose accuracy and velocity when scrubbed to bare steel. By scrubbing I mean using a bronze wire brush and or polishing compound. Anything less doesn't remove all deposits. That means dry patching or patching with mild solvents doesn't count as "scrubbing". They also dont really fully clean a bore either.

As long as you run soft lead pellets through a decent quality barrel you never need to clean a barrel. Almost all my airguns havent been scrubbed after I switched away from hard lead pellets. The one's that have were for mysterious accuracy problems the same as yours. Scrubbing might have seemed to fix the problem because it gave me or the gun a break. It actually never fixed the problem but in reality it temporarily degraded overall accuracy.

If you don't believe me take a seasoned gun with thousands of shots when everything is working well, chronograph it, scrub the barrel and watch both the accuracy and velocity decrease noticeably. I guarantee it. If it don't it wasn't fully scrubbed clean.

This is why I only scrub and polish new, new to me used guns and tunes. Never as part of a maintenance routine.

Airguns have no propellents or carbon to warrant routine cleaning. They also dont reach velocities that melt lead in the barrel.

Now hard lead like Crosman and some other companies use to prevent shipping damages has a higher percentage of antimony which can build up. Softer lead can't clear previous hard lead fouling so a scrubbing becomes occasionally required when hard lead pellets are used. Since switching to soft lead some of my rifle barrels haven't been cleaned in 30k shots. I challenge you to shoot them and tell me the accuracy is sub standard.

Anyways that's it. A dirty barrel aint your problem. A good scrubbing might seem like it helps but it was something else. The scrubbing actually temporarily degrades velocity and accuracy because it removes beneficial fouling or seasoning if you prefer.

I hope I explained this in a way that makes sense. Its counterintuitive based on traditional firearm cleaning practices. But these ain't firearms by a longshot.

Be well
Ron

 

[.20calguy]

Furthermore scrubbing the barrel removes all the leading that helps accuracy. All but the finest custom hand lapped barrels require some fouling to shoot better. If the term fouling is negative to you use the term seasoning. After scrubbing a barrel aggressively it can take a hundred or more shots to season a barrel again. Most airguns will lose accuracy and velocity when scrubbed to bare steel. By scrubbing I mean using a bronze wire brush and or polishing compound. Anything less doesn't remove all deposits. That means dry patching or patching with mild solvents doesn't count as "scrubbing". They also dont really fully clean a bore either.

As long as you run soft lead pellets through a decent quality barrel you never need to clean a barrel. Almost all my airguns havent been scrubbed after I switched away from hard lead pellets. The one's that have were for mysterious accuracy problems the same as yours. Scrubbing might have seemed to fix the problem because it gave me or the gun a break. It actually never fixed the problem but it degraded overall accuracy.

If you don't believe me take a seasoned gun with thousands of shots when everything is working well, chronograph it, scrub the barrel and watch both the accuracy and velocity decrease noticeably. I guarantee it. If it don't it wasn't fully scrubbed clean.

This is why I only scrub and polish new, new to me used guns and tunes. Never as part of a maintenance routine.

Airguns have no propellents or carbon to warrant routine cleaning. They also dont reach velocities that melt lead in the barrel.

Now hard lead like Crosman and some other companies use to prevent shipping damages has a higher percentage of antimony which can build up. Softer lead can't clear previous hard lead fouling so a scrubbing becomes occasionally required when hard lead pellets are used. Since switching to soft lead some of my rifle barrels haven't been cleaned in 30k shots. I challenge you to shoot them and tell me the accuracy is sub standard.

Anyways that's it. A dirty barrel aint your problem. A good scrubbing might seem like it helps but it was something else. Plus it actually degrades velocity and accuracy because it removes beneficial fouling or seasoning if you prefer.

I hope I explained this in a way that makes sense. Its counterintuitive based on traditional firearm cleaning practices. But these ain't firearms by a longshot.

Be well
Ron

I won't get a chance to fool with this weekend, but when I said scrub the barrel I only meant give it a bath. Which is to pull a few patches through it with a Patch Worm, with some of that smelly oil who's name escapes me at the moment.

I have a barrel on my Gauntlet2 that didn't get the leade in the chamber chamfered, and it cuts chunks off the pellets and inserts them in the lands and grooves ruining the accuracy. I am able to pull those chunks of pellets out of the barrel with tight patches and that nameless oil. Lol
I was stunned at the accuracy after the cleaning as well as shocked at the chunks that came out and how many pulls it took before I started getting clean patches.

That hasn't happed on any of my other guns so far. The patches typicaly just change color.

 

[Mycapt65]

[

I won't get a chance to fool with this weekend, but when I said scrub the barrel I only meant give it a bath. Which is to pull a few patches through it with a Patch Worm, with some of that smelly oil who's name escapes me at the moment.

I have a barrel on my Gauntlet2 that didn't get the leade in the chamber chamfered, and it cuts chunks off the pellets and inserts them in the lands and grooves ruining the accuracy. I am able to pull those chunks of pellets out of the barrel with tight patches and that nameless oil. Lol
I was stunned at the accuracy after the cleaning as well as shocked at the chunks that came out and how many pulls it took before I started getting clean patches.

That hasn't happed on any of my other guns so far. The patches typicaly just change color.

The smelly oil is likely Ballistol. Another German engineering military marvel. Great stuff. Still either you're a monster of a man or lead chunks were loose to begin with. The leading I'm talking about is smeared into the metal's grain. Picture rubbing a fishing sinking on new smooth concrete or a pencil on paper.

Rough cut barrels will foul badly as they hook lots of lead. Honestly they're usually associated with low quality rifles. Those barrels do need to be scrubbed. Sometimes often. An aggressive lapping compound like like clover 400 goes a long way to smooth bad barrels. It will increase accuracy and reduce the frequency of scrubbing. Barrels like these don't come on 20 cal Weihrauchs.

Anytime you want to talk more in detail about this. You have my number.
Be well
Ron

 

[Star7]

Being this is my first .20 I don’t know, however I’m wondering if their FTT’s are offered like .22 head size.
The 5.50-5.51-5.52-5.53-5.54.
Does anyone carry 5.0-5.01-5.05? Their dies most likely are numbered and someone probably knows what is what.

01/24 I purchased (sadly, I do not have the vendor written down) several pellet tins of JSB "Match diablo exact" 13.73gr) pellets labeled Cal .20 5.1mm M45/08 (week and year??) and they be tight! They are the deal in sheridans.

Other tins with same mfg date and weight are labelled 5.0mm and they are indeed looser fits.

 

[Star7]

SORRY! 'just noticed you specified FTT. Reading difficulties set in when I passed 70yo.

 

[.20calguy]

[

The smelly oil is likely Ballistol. Another German engineering military marvel. Great stuff. Still either you're a monster of a man or lead chunks were loose to begin with. The leading I'm talking about is smeared into the metal's grain. Picture rubbing a fishing sinking on new smooth concrete or a pencil on paper.

Rough cut barrels will foul badly as they hook lots of lead. Honestly they're usually associated with low quality rifles. Those barrels do need to be scrubbed. Sometimes often. An aggressive lapping compound like like clover 400 goes a long way to smooth bad barrels. It will increase accuracy and reduce the frequency of scrubbing. Barrels like these don't come on 20 cal Weihrauchs.

Anytime you want to talk more in detail about this. You have my number.
Be well
Ron

I posted the pics here but deleted them from my phone. They could have saved me a thousand words.
They're here somewhere I don't remember the thread name.

 

[JamesD.]

SORRY! 'just noticed you specified FTT. Reading difficulties set in when I passed 70yo.

Oh that’s okay. It’s just that FTT were ones I knew definitely available in different head size for .22.
I think all brands & calibers are but you gotta call a smaller dealer like Trenier, The Pellet Shop, Oberle Enterprises & specify. I think the big suppliers that monopolize just send out whatever they need to if guys don’t ask specifically.

 

[.20calguy]

Furthermore scrubbing the barrel removes all the leading that helps accuracy. All but the finest custom hand lapped barrels require some fouling to shoot better. If the term fouling is negative to you use the term seasoning. After scrubbing a barrel aggressively it can take a hundred or more shots to season a barrel again. Most airguns will lose accuracy and velocity when scrubbed to bare steel. By scrubbing I mean using a bronze wire brush and or polishing compound. Anything less doesn't remove all deposits. That means dry patching or patching with mild solvents doesn't count as "scrubbing". They also dont really fully clean a bore either.

As long as you run soft lead pellets through a decent quality barrel you never need to clean a barrel. Almost all my airguns havent been scrubbed after I switched away from hard lead pellets. The one's that have were for mysterious accuracy problems the same as yours. Scrubbing might have seemed to fix the problem because it gave me or the gun a break. It actually never fixed the problem but in reality it temporarily degraded overall accuracy.

If you don't believe me take a seasoned gun with thousands of shots when everything is working well, chronograph it, scrub the barrel and watch both the accuracy and velocity decrease noticeably. I guarantee it. If it don't it wasn't fully scrubbed clean.

This is why I only scrub and polish new, new to me used guns and tunes. Never as part of a maintenance routine.

Airguns have no propellents or carbon to warrant routine cleaning. They also dont reach velocities that melt lead in the barrel.

Now hard lead like Crosman and some other companies use to prevent shipping damages has a higher percentage of antimony which can build up. Softer lead can't clear previous hard lead fouling so a scrubbing becomes occasionally required when hard lead pellets are used. Since switching to soft lead some of my rifle barrels haven't been cleaned in 30k shots. I challenge you to shoot them and tell me the accuracy is sub standard.

Anyways that's it. A dirty barrel aint your problem. A good scrubbing might seem like it helps but it was something else. The scrubbing actually temporarily degrades velocity and accuracy because it removes beneficial fouling or seasoning if you prefer.

I hope I explained this in a way that makes sense. Its counterintuitive based on traditional firearm cleaning practices. But these ain't firearms by a longshot.

Be well
Ron

Hi Ron
I looked that article up and read it. I had shot Barracuda Greens in the Gauntlet2 prior to that issue and resolution. The G2 is the rifle with the sharp leade. It damages the pellets eventually fouling, which is unrelated to my HW barrels.