200 plus yrds?
- Thread starter Bigfish
- Start date
Well I shot my Impact at 200 yards quite a bit when I had the 700mm slug A liner on it and it was a treat at 228yards shooting paint cans.
I hear the .30 caliber guns are even better.
There are several other guns that are good at that range but probly none as well known for it.
I hear the .30 caliber guns are even better.
There are several other guns that are good at that range but probly none as well known for it.
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.223 does pretty good eveb offhand to 250 or so, but for a pellet gun, none really .. im sure most of the 3k$+ offerings in larger caliber are capable of hitting the paper at that distance but with no real practical purpose other than bragging rights on an airgun board lol ... the trajectory and energy at that distance make them about worthless other than to the most battle hardened of trolling pellet wasters lol ..
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I’m going to have to beg to differ on that one with you Mr. dizzums. Probably won’t surprise either of us.
When the world was only pellets, what you said above was true. That rule has been bent a little bit though, with the introduction of the 34 grain 25 caliber pellet… I’ve shot groups with them out to 200+.
However, inexpensive slugs have changed the world.
That said, if you’re looking at slugs, an impact or a red wolf in 25 or 22 caliber would probably be your best shot. And I’m sure there’s others out there, I just know those two are both good. Make sure you get the high power version. They have a longer barrel.
I’m a big fan of the red wolf as you’ve probably noticed. One of the nicest features is you don’t have to cock a spring each time. It’s amazing after you have shot 100 rounds down- range…without having to caulk the spring. The trigger is delightful. And they look good, they’re nice looking rifles.
I did a post a while back of a video shooting tin cans at 190 yards. I also did one shooting at a target, it was not a screamer group, but it gives you an idea of what it looks like to shoot at long distance.
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/requested-long-range-video-190-yard-moa-group/?referrer=1 The video is a link within the post. I just watched it again it’s fun to watch. And it short. I made the video because I think some guys weren’t believing it was happening for real.
Link to post with the video shooting three cans at 190 yards. Medium conditions https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/exploding-cans-with-the-red-%f0%9f%90%ba-at-194-pellets-real-world-conditions-video/
I know there’s others that Have shot out past where I’m shooting. On prairie dogs and different types of varmints. Being able to shoot at this distance with accuracy is all brand new. The result of the brand new high end rifles, and slugs.
As far as retaining energy is concerned, I did another post on digging up my target bank, and showed what the slugs look like after hitting the dirt and each other at 200 yards. There’s plenty of juice in the tank.
Check out the retained energy at 240 yards of a 17 caliber slug. It completely embedded itself in a solid oak chair leg. https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/going-out-to-240-with-a-couple-of-wolves-a-25-with-pellets-and-a-17-with-slugs/
The recovered slugs I dug out of my target mound backstop, at 190 yards. https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/chunks-of-lead-found-in-a-mound-approximately-190-yards-from-my-bench/
I shot a chipmunk at 190 yards this year, it entered above his head and traversed through his entire body…I hit A squirrel 🐿 with the 22 DRT, It looked like it been hit with a lightning bolt. It was a one shot kill (A little bit of luck there). Dead chipmunk post, GRAPHIC Below
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/1-shot-one-kill-at-190-yds-with-a-177-rw/
I’m getting very excited that there are others interested in shooting long range. I want to see more targets more groups!
You might be holding 8 inches, or 2 feet off your target.
Let’s go back to Mr. dizzums point. I don’t really disagree with him. The 223 would be a better choice. Actually a 22-250 would be an even better choice… it is also no real challenge with either of the above depending on conditions out to about 400 yards. I’ve done three PDs in a row at 400+ numerous times. Interestingly enough, shooting at 500+ yards, we were holding approximately 3 feet high and 3 feet to the right. We had good nightforce and leupold scopes, with reticles that allowed us to hold on hashmarks. That 500 + was with a 25 ought six. With hand loads And a portable bench rest that we brought out in the field. We only shot one at a time, so the other could spot.
all right, so let’s veer back to the rest of the conversation. Quite often at 200 yards or 240 for that matter, you could have a foot of wind, which is nothing. You just have to play the wind. It’s no different than Playing the wind at 500 with a center fire. To be clear, I’m not talking hunting here, I’m talking varmint elimination.
In those conditions your groups are going to look more like baseball or softball. Consistency at 190 post.https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/a-10-and-20-shot-group-with-the-22-red-wolf-at-190-yards/
There is lots to explore out past 100 yards! Even 200.
We have just barely started to scratch the surface of what can be done here.
mike
When the world was only pellets, what you said above was true. That rule has been bent a little bit though, with the introduction of the 34 grain 25 caliber pellet… I’ve shot groups with them out to 200+.
However, inexpensive slugs have changed the world.
That said, if you’re looking at slugs, an impact or a red wolf in 25 or 22 caliber would probably be your best shot. And I’m sure there’s others out there, I just know those two are both good. Make sure you get the high power version. They have a longer barrel.
I’m a big fan of the red wolf as you’ve probably noticed. One of the nicest features is you don’t have to cock a spring each time. It’s amazing after you have shot 100 rounds down- range…without having to caulk the spring. The trigger is delightful. And they look good, they’re nice looking rifles.
I did a post a while back of a video shooting tin cans at 190 yards. I also did one shooting at a target, it was not a screamer group, but it gives you an idea of what it looks like to shoot at long distance.
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/requested-long-range-video-190-yard-moa-group/?referrer=1 The video is a link within the post. I just watched it again it’s fun to watch. And it short. I made the video because I think some guys weren’t believing it was happening for real.
Link to post with the video shooting three cans at 190 yards. Medium conditions https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/exploding-cans-with-the-red-%f0%9f%90%ba-at-194-pellets-real-world-conditions-video/
I know there’s others that Have shot out past where I’m shooting. On prairie dogs and different types of varmints. Being able to shoot at this distance with accuracy is all brand new. The result of the brand new high end rifles, and slugs.
As far as retaining energy is concerned, I did another post on digging up my target bank, and showed what the slugs look like after hitting the dirt and each other at 200 yards. There’s plenty of juice in the tank.
Check out the retained energy at 240 yards of a 17 caliber slug. It completely embedded itself in a solid oak chair leg. https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/going-out-to-240-with-a-couple-of-wolves-a-25-with-pellets-and-a-17-with-slugs/
The recovered slugs I dug out of my target mound backstop, at 190 yards. https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/chunks-of-lead-found-in-a-mound-approximately-190-yards-from-my-bench/
I shot a chipmunk at 190 yards this year, it entered above his head and traversed through his entire body…I hit A squirrel 🐿 with the 22 DRT, It looked like it been hit with a lightning bolt. It was a one shot kill (A little bit of luck there). Dead chipmunk post, GRAPHIC Below
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/1-shot-one-kill-at-190-yds-with-a-177-rw/
I’m getting very excited that there are others interested in shooting long range. I want to see more targets more groups!
You might be holding 8 inches, or 2 feet off your target.
Let’s go back to Mr. dizzums point. I don’t really disagree with him. The 223 would be a better choice. Actually a 22-250 would be an even better choice… it is also no real challenge with either of the above depending on conditions out to about 400 yards. I’ve done three PDs in a row at 400+ numerous times. Interestingly enough, shooting at 500+ yards, we were holding approximately 3 feet high and 3 feet to the right. We had good nightforce and leupold scopes, with reticles that allowed us to hold on hashmarks. That 500 + was with a 25 ought six. With hand loads And a portable bench rest that we brought out in the field. We only shot one at a time, so the other could spot.
all right, so let’s veer back to the rest of the conversation. Quite often at 200 yards or 240 for that matter, you could have a foot of wind, which is nothing. You just have to play the wind. It’s no different than Playing the wind at 500 with a center fire. To be clear, I’m not talking hunting here, I’m talking varmint elimination.
In those conditions your groups are going to look more like baseball or softball. Consistency at 190 post.https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/a-10-and-20-shot-group-with-the-22-red-wolf-at-190-yards/
There is lots to explore out past 100 yards! Even 200.
We have just barely started to scratch the surface of what can be done here.
mike
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Mike, though I don't have the skills or interest to shoot at those long range distances. It's great that you and others are showing what a good shooter with a high quality, accurate HP PCP can do at 200 yards plus. Naysayers aside, shooting accurately, repeatedly at those distances is simply awesome.
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In a way I can see your point. Let’s take a look at a common slugs from a common gun at a common speed at 200 yards.
.22 JSB KO slug from DS Red Wolf HP at 990 FPS in a relatively “mild” 5 mph cross wind.
With a 50 yard zero the “drop” vertically is 64 inches. BC 0.084.
For each 5 yard change in distance the drop changes about +/- 4 inches.
The wind drift is about 9 inches for a 5 mph wind and changes 2 inches for every 1 mph change. Everything gets much larger in actual winds such as 10 mph +
I think the MOA or better groups at distance are awesome. They are at a known yardage and either very low/no wind or extremely consistent wind. And sighters are used.
I think Dizzums is thinking actual hunting for small game/varmints at 200 yards with just a quick laser distance and a wind speed guess.
Distance off 5 yards, miss. Wind guess off by 1 mph, miss. I’m assuming small targets like ground squirrels or chipmunks.
So the reality is that it’s lots of fun to shoot 200 yards, and tight groups are real, hitting small game first shot at 200 yards involves a great deal of skill… and luck. Slugs make this possible. Pellets…. not so much. The most recent EBR top 20 Pros could barely keep their pellet shots inside a 2 inch circle at only 100 yards. From a bench. With sighters. And known exactly yardage.
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@centercut, very insightful post. Good to know that even the top twenty pros where hard pressed to hold 2" at 100 yards. Helps to temper unrealistic expectations.
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Agreed, in any kind of wind at 100 yards it’s extremely difficult to keep 25 shots in a row under 2 inches shooting pellets, At times it seems pretty much impossible.
Last year when EBR was remote because of Covid, we all shot virtual with our own targets shipped to us by AoA. Great idea, and great distraction from Covid.
You were supposed to shoot one target or card at 75 yards, I guess to Kind of signify your qualifying round as if it were a live event. Again, very cool idea.
I ran into what I thought were perfect conditions one evening. I grabbed one of my cards which is actually a big 3’ x 5’ approximately sheet of paper. I decided to shoot my 100 yard target first and take advantage of these “great” conditions…I shot a 206, I had been waiting literally months for this great moment. To say I was crushed was an understatement.
So I had one more card, I sure as heck was not going to shoot it at 75 yards. I shot it again at 100, and shot a 216. Which I never entered, because I thought it was a horrible score and I didn’t have a 75 yard card. It turns out that would actually be a pretty good score during one of these events at 100 yards in tough conditions.
You can’t really compare pellets and slugs
.
mike
Last year when EBR was remote because of Covid, we all shot virtual with our own targets shipped to us by AoA. Great idea, and great distraction from Covid.
You were supposed to shoot one target or card at 75 yards, I guess to Kind of signify your qualifying round as if it were a live event. Again, very cool idea.
I ran into what I thought were perfect conditions one evening. I grabbed one of my cards which is actually a big 3’ x 5’ approximately sheet of paper. I decided to shoot my 100 yard target first and take advantage of these “great” conditions…I shot a 206, I had been waiting literally months for this great moment. To say I was crushed was an understatement.
So I had one more card, I sure as heck was not going to shoot it at 75 yards. I shot it again at 100, and shot a 216. Which I never entered, because I thought it was a horrible score and I didn’t have a 75 yard card. It turns out that would actually be a pretty good score during one of these events at 100 yards in tough conditions.
You can’t really compare pellets and slugs
.mike
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Very true Mike. And swirling light winds (like at the recent EBR final) are MUCH HARDER than stronger non swirling winds (like at the recent RMAC). Unlike the Covid cards last year, you don’t get to choose your conditions, plus you have 1/2 hour maximum to shoot the card. I shot a 229-8x in the first 100 yard qualifier at RMAC, and the next highest score in my 20 person Pro relay was 218. Compare that to my first qual card at 75 yards at EBR of 238, and there were four shooters ahead of me (out of 40). What I’m saying is the only true way to determine how good a score is is to compare it to others that shot at the same time under similar conditions. My 229 at RMAC 100 yards was a very very good score. My 238 at EBR 75 yards was…. Just OK.
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Comparing pellets with slugs at long distances/over 100 yards is a laughable preposition. Even at 200 yards the right slug and gun combo can definitely take down a small game IF the shooter is very skilled. Personally I have never tried hunting anything beyond 110 yards but with the right equipment and understanding of ballistic first shot hit is absolutely possible. Just a little over a year ago I would also thought landing a first shot hit even close to 100 yards is crazy talking but I've done it many times now. Also with slugs even at 200 yards there is plenty of energy left for small games, I shoot squirrels out to 30 yards with whopping 7FPE at the muzzle.
But due to the slow speed ever 10 yards the difficulty does increase significantly even with slugs.......however this is why I enjoy shooting slugs in airguns, it's like shooting long range but without the work of finding a place to shoot long range with center fire.
Back to OP's questions: if you are dead set on 200 yards then I would start with Impact/Crown 25 cal or a Texan 257 cal. Kinds of the sweet spot for better BC especially 257 but 257 is not cheap to shoot.
But due to the slow speed ever 10 yards the difficulty does increase significantly even with slugs.......however this is why I enjoy shooting slugs in airguns, it's like shooting long range but without the work of finding a place to shoot long range with center fire.
Back to OP's questions: if you are dead set on 200 yards then I would start with Impact/Crown 25 cal or a Texan 257 cal. Kinds of the sweet spot for better BC especially 257 but 257 is not cheap to shoot.
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I just reread the posters initial question, he’s not asking about hunting.
Also, nobody has talked about 30 caliber slugs, which I have never tried. I have shot 30 caliber cast bullets.
I do have a couple older single shot rifles, that were designed to shoot cast bullets.
I have an older acquaintance who was using a similar rifle to shoot coyotes out to 400 yards.
I think we need clarification from the poster, as to exactly what he’s trying to accomplish at 200+ yards.
mike
Also, nobody has talked about 30 caliber slugs, which I have never tried. I have shot 30 caliber cast bullets.
I do have a couple older single shot rifles, that were designed to shoot cast bullets.
I have an older acquaintance who was using a similar rifle to shoot coyotes out to 400 yards.
I think we need clarification from the poster, as to exactly what he’s trying to accomplish at 200+ yards.
mike
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I'll just throw some thoughts into your question.
Like mentioned, using pellets at your target distances is not worth doing except to experience what happens a few times for the heck of it, yeah you can hit stuff but it gets very infrequent and feels like a waist of time and ammo. Why?? it's a petcock shape that sheds velocity quickly and has a very low BC. Though for whatever reasons some pellets out of some barrels do better at extreme distances than others in spite of BC and velocities being similar???
The higher the BC of a projectile, (in this case what airgunners call a "slug", which is a cast or swaged lead bullet), the more success one will have at those distances, provided the velocities, the extreme spreads of those velocities, and the precision capability is equal. Half of this equation of success is wind drift, less being better, and providing the aforementioned characteristics are equal or almost so, the easier it will be to have a higher hit ratio.
Another consideration is how much air you are comfortable using and how accessible air is to you. Typically the heavier the projectile is, the more air needed to drive it to acceptable speeds.
I'm assuming you just want to plink on objects or maybe hunt small game because most wouldn't attempt taking large game animals at 200.
I have only a tiny bit of experience in using a pcp of reasonable power, which was a 9mm shooting 115gr bullets. It got 6 good shots before the velocity went too low and wasn't very precise. I also went through a lot of air which I was very much annoyed with. So I sold it asap. I played with a guys very powerful 45 caliber pcp which got 2 good shots. So far this isn't for me because I don't big game hunt. I'm not against it, its just that its not that much fun too me. Personally I'd go for a Air Force TexanSS in 257 because the BC of the slugs and shot count is decent. Though I'm not totally enthused with the platform.
FX brand has liners that have appropriate twist rates(very important) for slugs and there are plenty of slugs available and the Utah guys have these rifled dialed in well as proven by RMAC this year. The 22 cal heavier slugs also have a higher BC and can be driven fast.
I have a 25 cal Uragan King pcp that shoots 29gr NSA slugs well but these don't have a very high BC. If the wind is down it's pretty amazing how well they do to 200Y but by 300Y its getting dismal even in very light wind, like 4" of wind drift for 1 mph. I do like getting 100 shots per fill which is very convenient! By 100 shots I'm pretty much done shooting. I was told that NSA 34gr slugs shoot just as well in this rifle and I have room to adjust velocity above 900 fps but this remains to be tried. I'd like that extra BC in spite of less shots per fill.
Fantasy wise I'd like a stoutly built 6mm pcp shooting 110gr slugs with a BC of .5 at 1000 fps!!! I can always hope.
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Yup, when you hear or see MOA groups at 100 yards, you can bet your bottom dollar that there was no wind or a very consistent light wind. Think about it. Even the winner who shot 222 didn't average his shots inside the 9 ring, which is 1.2 inches plus the 0.30" plug. So all 9s would be 225, and you'd need to keep all shots inside 1.5 inches. Even the WINNER was outside 1.5 inch 25 shot group of all superimposed on one target. Just some perspective on how hard it is to shoot pellets at 100 yards in real world conditions...
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"Even at 200 yards the right slug and gun combo can definitely take down a small game IF the shooter is very skilled." Can definitely? I'd say not. Wind doesn't care how "skilled" a shooter is. Consistent hits at that range with even the lightest wind is questionable. Slugs or not.
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+1 Bingo. Most if not all of those long range shots you see are walked in to the target. In essence a few “sighters” and if the game doesn’t run maybe they’ll get a hit. First shot hits at 200+ are rare…. and lucky.
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Well guys, I shot out to 215 tonight with my sub 12 .177 Impact 8.4 grain pellet....Clean holes too.....Not got on a group yet but were does that sit?
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I have only recently gotten back in air rifles, PcP's from the beginning. I owned a Gen 1 Marauder and wasn't impressed.
I like the mention of a 25-06 as I'm the owner of two customs in this caliber.
Both are based off a three lug mauser action. 200 yards for this rifle; who cares about wind lol
My point is that unless you are in the class of a flintsack or centercut, don't expect same hole accuracy from more than 60 yards using pellets!!
Will
I like the mention of a 25-06 as I'm the owner of two customs in this caliber.
Both are based off a three lug mauser action. 200 yards for this rifle; who cares about wind lol
My point is that unless you are in the class of a flintsack or centercut, don't expect same hole accuracy from more than 60 yards using pellets!!
Will
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Top Choices for 200 yards
.25 Uragun with NSA 34 gr @ 880 fps
.25 vulcan with NSA 26 grain
impact 25 35 grain NSA 875 fps
uragan .22 H&N 20 grain 840 fps
all of these can shoot moa at 200 under goid conditions.
I find that many people will tell u slugs have to be shot from 950-1000 fps. do your own testing… it’s not true with my guns.
Brad
.25 Uragun with NSA 34 gr @ 880 fps
.25 vulcan with NSA 26 grain
impact 25 35 grain NSA 875 fps
uragan .22 H&N 20 grain 840 fps
all of these can shoot moa at 200 under goid conditions.
I find that many people will tell u slugs have to be shot from 950-1000 fps. do your own testing… it’s not true with my guns.
Brad
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Is it just me missing something, or is the Texan not in the discussion? I own a .308 Texan and I get very consistent results at 200 yards and am able to be on 12x12 steel out to 400 yards with no scope tilt. My best groups when everything is perfect (wind/ammo/air pressure/tune) are right around 2" but I would say an honest average for 200 yards/5 shots is about 3.5". Other than a MadDog stock, the gun is factory. The .257 Texan might be even better.
When it comes to 200+ yards you need horsepower. I've gone head to head with a Slayer on the range, but even that gun falls off at distance.
I will say that it took a long time for me to get those good results. Lots of bullet molds, shooting, more shooting, etc. But make no mistake, long range air rifle shooting is a slug-dominated arena. Skirted pellets are not made for that.
When it comes to 200+ yards you need horsepower. I've gone head to head with a Slayer on the range, but even that gun falls off at distance.
I will say that it took a long time for me to get those good results. Lots of bullet molds, shooting, more shooting, etc. But make no mistake, long range air rifle shooting is a slug-dominated arena. Skirted pellets are not made for that.
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"all of these can shoot moa at 200 under goid conditions."
"Can" and "under good condition" being combined is the issue. Many airguns might do that, in a vise indoors. Maybe even with excellent pellets. Take them out of the vise and outdoors and not so much. As to "where does that sit" from the poster above, I'd say as a one off and not reliably repeatable.
In the late 70's I killed a whtetail buck at what was measured as just over 700 yards. Today, using the same caliber in a better rifle with better optics and better ammunition, I could not repeatably do the same. Sometimes things just happen.
"Can" and "under good condition" being combined is the issue. Many airguns might do that, in a vise indoors. Maybe even with excellent pellets. Take them out of the vise and outdoors and not so much. As to "where does that sit" from the poster above, I'd say as a one off and not reliably repeatable.
In the late 70's I killed a whtetail buck at what was measured as just over 700 yards. Today, using the same caliber in a better rifle with better optics and better ammunition, I could not repeatably do the same. Sometimes things just happen.
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