200 yard first shot accuracy

[Centercut]

It's fun to shoot groups at 200 yards (even further) and get yourself all dialed in and then shoot your 3 or 5 or 10 shot group quickly while the wind is consistent. But ranging your ground squirrel at 192 yards, and taking the shot in a few seconds before the squirrel runs away is a totally different ball game... First shot accuracy is paramount for hunting or pesting, and an order of magnitude harder than shooting 200 yards (or further) groups. What's my point? Hell, I don't know, was just thinking of long-range airgun hunting.

 

[Solo1]

Well do you have such a weapon? I’ve never shot my m3 25 @ 200 but its pretty good @ 100 with nsa 34.9 and the 177 wolverine i used to have would hit a plastic soda bottle first shot @ 100 with nsa 12.5

 

[Ezana4CE]

It's fun to shoot groups at 200 yards (even further) and get yourself all dialed in and then shoot your 3 or 5 or 10 shot group quickly while the wind is consistent. But ranging your ground squirrel at 192 yards, and taking the shot in a few seconds before the squirrel runs away is a totally different ball game... First shot accuracy is paramount for hunting or pesting, and an order of magnitude harder than shooting 200 yards (or further) groups. What's my point? Hell, I don't know, was just thinking of long-range airgun hunting.

@Centercut First shot accuracy it key to hunting…period. At least for me. Albeit, I do get opportunities at second shots, the first shot is critical. It can mean the difference of prolonged suffering or a quick dispatch and getting a shot at a second animal in proximity. This is something I pay attention to when I shoot groups. I want the see where that first shot hit. I don’t shoot out as far as you do, if I did you might catch me staring unusually long at a first-shot bullseye or between the eye and ear shot. I do it 45-75 yards, but I’m often thinking about what I just did that caused that to occur so that I can replicate it. The first time I nicked a bullseye from 100 yards felt great! I haven’t shot out to 200 yards yet. When I hit the field, what I practice comes out. I’ve looked at photos of my POI on quarry and targets side by side and it is clear to me.
Something to think about.

Ground squirrel and prairie dog pesters make some pretty impressive shots. Some jack rabbit hunters too.

 

[beerthief]

i just shot my Morini .177 162IE 420 FPS and 7 grain wadcutter . and hit a 1 inch spinner @ 44 yards ,about fell over . two times aimed about 1.25 inches high ,hahahaha

 

[Centercut]

Well do you have such a weapon? I’ve never shot my m3 25 @ 200 but its pretty good @ 100 with nsa 34.9 and the 177 wolverine i used to have would hit a plastic soda bottle first shot @ 100 with nsa 12.5

Yes, I have two that'll do the trick. The .25 Impact shooting 41 grain Zan at 960 fps, and even better the .25 Panthera shooting 49.5 grain Altaros BT at 885 fps. I shoot 4-inch spinners at that range and can do first shot with the Panthera the majority of the time...
The difference between 100 and 200 yards is like night and day, not even close to comparable...

 

[Ezana4CE]

Yes, I have two that'll do the trick. The .25 Impact shooting 41 grain Zan at 960 fps, and even better the .25 Panthera shooting 49.5 grain Altaros BT at 885 fps. I shoot 4-inch spinners at that range and can do first shot with the Panthera the majority of the time...
The difference between 100 and 200 yards is like night and day, not even close to comparable...

@Centercut What are the main differences? And at what increments did you stretch out from 100 to 200 yards?

 

[Centercut]

@Centercut What are the main differences? And at what increments did you stretch out from 100 to 200 yards?

The main differences are getting the range exactly right, because if you're off by more than 2 or 3 yards you miss. Also, getting the wind dope correct, and knowing how the vertical is affected by quartering winds. Most of these factors, which are minor at 100 yards, are major at 200 yards. I shot at 100 after zeroing at 50 yards, then moved to 150 yards for a while before going out to 200 yards. Usually, I am prone with a bipod and my hand as a rear rest, but this can be as sturdy as a concrete bench one you get comfortable with it. It's hard to hold steady bucket and sticks at that range... I'm sure some guys can do it, but I'm not that good.
Also, your gun must have a very tight ES and especially SD, like under 6 or 7 ES and under 2 fps SD. Whereas at 100Y a 10 or 12 fps difference will still give you a hit, at 200 yards you're S.O.L.

 

[Ezana4CE]

@Centercut Wow! 50 yard increments are large jumps for me. I’m surprised you didn’t mention changing winds or winds blowing in different directions at various points between you and your target. Are you only using flags or do you use a Kestrel or similar devices as well? I still have an issue with cocking smoothly, even lying prone. I don’t have anything that cocks smoothly that can reach out that far that isn’t a semi-auto. How did you master advancing the next round without being thrown far off of your target at high magnification?

 

[Centercut]

Practice. Then Practice. Then more PRACTICE. The more I practice the luckier I get. Swirling winds are something that you just have to deal with. Plus, once you realize that the wind closest to you that you can see the best affect your flight the most, you don't worry so much about downrange wind. I shoot a slug with a very high BC (0.21) and that really helps. Never thought much about the cocking, I just did it... I've been shooting mostly prone for hunting since 2017, so its second nature to me. High mag isn't always your friend. Mostly at 100 yards I shoot at 15 or 16x, and at 200 yards at 20x, sometimes higher but mostly 20x.

 

[Gerry52]

Ruminating, huh Mike? Guess it goes without saying (but I'll say it anyway) that it's ESSENTIAL to have a quality gun that can RELIABLY, REPEATEDLY & CONSISTENTLY put the projectile where you want it. We BOTH have that . BTW, Frank (vineyard) found my FTS. Yay!

 

[qball]

First shot hit has been my obsession since I started to watch Matt Dubber’s videos 3 years ago. Many dismiss his videos as cherry picked but after applying his methodologies I was able to get pretty close to his results. Not to say it’s remotely easy and like you said 100 and 200 yards or farther is night and day different, BUT it is extremely satisfying when you get very thing right and connect on the fist shot on a random object at a random distance. IMHO the fist shot hits are the most fun and frustration I have with airguns! Biggest reason I really like the game of field target.

 

[Healthservices]

Knowing and changing distances is the biggest first step for me and strelok helps. Having a high bc is also essential as the flight path of our projectiles are extremely loopy so being off by a couple yards can make a big difference as to where the projectile will hit. I wish I could shoot more often but I still have a regular job. Then again without it I cannot buy any of the toys I have.


Allen

 

[qball]

@Centercut What are the main differences? And at what increments did you stretch out from 100 to 200 yards?

To put things into more realistic numbers or perspective of the difference between 100 & 200 yards, assuming your gun can shoot 1 MOA. I happen to shoot the same 34.9 grain slugs like @Centercut so numbers are fairly at hand, below is the "frame" or area slugs could land. Wind could and does switch so the table below is worse case when the 5 or 10 mph wind switch direction which does happen, this table is the approximate worse case if your vertical dope is dead on and aiming dead center with wind switching in every direction. If the wind is only 1 direction then the "frame" is half the width and height.

	No wind	5mph wind	10mph wind
100 yards 1 MOA	1 inch circle	5.4x2 inch oval	9.6x3.2 inch oval
200 yards 1 MOA	2 inch circle	19.4x6 inch oval	37x10 inch oval

So possible POI area due to wind at 200 yards is almost 4x as big or error is almost 4 times as big as 100 yards. And it gets exponentially bigger as the wind picks up because we are talking about an area, also don't forget other environmental variables that will shift POI by inches. Every yard ranged wrong and every 1 mph wind off can shift POI by inches. And then, assuming your elevation turret has less than 1% error at almost 8-10 mils or 80-100 click for 200 yards vs 2-3 mils or 23-30 clicks for 100 yards.

Hope this highlights the variables that all have to be right to score a first shot hit on a MOA or even 2 MOA sized target at distance.

 

[Miami Airgunner]

I mean, you can always dial in your Hatsan Blitz, and be very careful about doing the right ballistic calculations, then lock it down as firmly as you can and just send a full magazine. ;-)

 

[ghoststalker]

There's no way I ( my self) would attempt shooting an animal or bird at 100 yet alone 200 yards. I want a realy quick humane kill. With my air rifle I feel 40 yards is about as far as I can feel 100 % percent on a clean first shot kill, as long as wind and other conditions are good. 200 yards I feel confident with a number if my pb's. Paper, or other targets I really like trying long shots, and it only proves most the time that I have no business trying to kill something at those ranges. Most people I have shot with, I don't feel ( I know for a fact) should be trying it either, but alot of them do, and brag about the one in who knows how many times they pull it off.

 

[Centercut]

To put things into more realistic numbers or perspective of the difference between 100 & 200 yards, assuming your gun can shoot 1 MOA. I happen to shoot the same 34.9 grain slugs like @Centercut so numbers are fairly at hand, below is the "frame" or area slugs could land. Wind could and does switch so the table below is worse case when the 5 or 10 mph wind switch direction which does happen, this table is the approximate worse case if your vertical dope is dead on and aiming dead center with wind switching in every direction. If the wind is only 1 direction then the "frame" is half the width and height.

	No wind	5mph wind	10mph wind
100 yards 1 MOA	1 inch circle	5.4x2 inch oval	9.6x3.2 inch oval
200 yards 1 MOA	2 inch circle	19.4x6 inch oval	37x10 inch oval

So the hold over for wind at 200 yards is almost 4x as difficult or error is almost 4 times as big as 100 yards. And it gets exponentially bigger as the wind picks up because we are talking about an area, also don't forget other environmental variables that will shift POI by inches. Every yard ranged wrong and every 1 mph wind off can shift POI by inches. And then, assuming your elevation turret has less than 1% error at almost 8-10 mils or 80-100 click for 200 yards vs 2-3 mils or 23-30 clicks for 100 yards.

Hope this highlights the variables that all have to be right to score a first shot hit on a MOA sized target at distance.

Good info. Although I’ve been using ammo with double the BC of the one you used for your calculations, the areas are about 1/2, but it still illustrates the point.

 

[qball]

Good info. Although I’ve been using ammo with double the BC of the one you used for your calculations, the areas are about 1/2, but it still illustrates the point.

Those slugs are very tempting but I’m too cheap to try them. LOL

 

[Long_Shot]

Your still not talking about one of the first things needed for an accuate long range cold shot.
The range finder. A $200.00 - $300.00 model isn't going to cut it. Think Nikon Black X 4k, for 200+ yards on a Ground squirrel.
Then your slug only gun and it's slug come in. Obviously sub MOA, or forget it.
Then a quality scope setup properly with some form of "cold shot" type of base makes things come together.
Now your ready to start reading the wind. With everything setup properly the wind is the biggest variable for sure.
I'm not like Ghoststalker. This isn't big game hunting here. But, I respect his thoughts about it.
My airgunning buddy and I have sat for hours shooting over the heads of Groung squirrels @ point blank - 120 yards. The no shoot zone.
To me just trying to give a "pest" half a chance of me missing using way to much technoligy, while still giving me a chance to think it's "sporting" sort of.
I'm sure Mr. squirrel would rather me take one shot @ say 250 yards, than murder him @ 50 yards.

 

[Centercut]

Your still not talking about one of the first things needed for an accuate long range cold shot.
The range finder. A $200.00 - $300.00 model isn't going to cut it. Think Nikon Black X 4k, for 200+ yards on a Ground squirrel.
Then your slug only gun and it's slug come in. Obviously sub MOA, or forget it.
Then a quality scope setup properly with some form of "cold shot" type of base makes things come together.
Now your ready to start reading the wind. With everything setup properly the wind is the biggest variable for sure.
I'm not like Ghoststalker. This isn't big game hunting here. But, I respect his thoughts about it.
My airgunning buddy and I have sat for hours shooting over the heads of Groung squirrels @ point blank - 120 yards. The no shoot zone.
To me just trying to give a "pest" half a chance of me missing using way to much technoligy, while still giving me a chance to think it's "sporting" sort of.
I'm sure Mr. squirrel would rather me take one shot @ say 250 yards, than murder him @ 50 yards.

Yeah, it's fun to try, especially pesting. Then we see and read about the "head shot" on a ground squirrel at 200+ yards. Did it happen? Maybe. Was the head shot intentional? Hell no... At 200 yards center mass is about all you'll be aiming at if you're honest with yourself.

 

[Healthservices]

I'm sure Mr. squirrel would rather me take one shot @ say 250 yards, than murder him @ 50 yards.

"Is that someone with a airgun 250 yards away?" Says one squirrel to another...



Allen