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.22 LDC bore clearance study print files

One of the many aspects worthy of an organized study is the effect of pellet to LDC bore clearance on muffling effectiveness. There is a common belief that baffle bore size matters a great deal, and that making the bores 1 mm larger than necessary is unacceptably wasteful of suppression capability. The idea with the attached set of LDCs is to enable anyone with a printer to test this premise for themselves.

The three LDCs shown below have a very generic baffle design, using 60 degree included angle cones. The OD is 1", and the overall length is just over 4". The STLs attached in the ZIP file are identical, except for the bore diameters. They should print with bores having 0.5 mm; 1 mm and 1.5 mm radial clearance with a 5.5 mm diameter pellet, respectively.

The actual bore diameters are expected to print at 6.5; 7.5 and 8.5 mm, respectively. All baffle bores are the same in any given LDC - there is no taper or step in diameter. The front end has the bore diameter embossed. Hopefully that will show well enough in the prints to distinguish them from each other.

These LDCs are intended for .22 caliber up to 30 FPE. The threads are 1/2-20, and should be usable off the printer.

I predict a spread of less than 4 dB, smallest to largest bore; for this set of LDCs. But I could be wrong, because by "predict" I mean guess or estimate; not calculate, guarantee or certify.

Some are adamant that a 2 dB difference is significant. I would agree, if their best muffler reduced their airgun report by only 6 dB; and the second best by only 4 dB.

My goal for my muffler designs is a 10 dB peak sound reduction, over bare muzzle. If I can achieve a 12 dB reduction, I am willing to give up 2 dB for a more pleasing sound: More thud and less crack. a 10 dB reduction is not always possible, if the customer insists on a very compact muffler. Obviously it also depends on the platform and tune, to a very large degree.

On, to the subject of this thread: Similar mufflers, that vary only with regard to the bore to projectile clearance. If every tenth of a mm extra clearance matters a great deal, then a full 2 mm of extra bore clearance should show a definite signal. But, how much? Lets find out:

These mufflers need to be printed standing vertical on the printer platen, with the threads uppermost.

View attachment LDC bore clearance study STL files.zip

Bore clearance study.PNG


Bore clearance study2.PNG


Bore clearance study3.PNG
 
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Changed your opinion from this thread eh? Nice, good work.


I suspect a perceptible change in DB of less than 3, although this highly depends on the guns tune relative to its barrel length.

-Matt
 
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I will change my opinion, when the evidence points that way. Until then, I predict a 4 dB spread between the tightest and most open bore.

I was congratulating you on already changing your opinion on the linked thread above as you originally stated you didn't think bore clearance would result in anything over 3 db, where as now you claim 4. Again, kudos.

-Matt
 
I stand by what I said before. I have not changed my opinion. I do everything for a reason. We have a larger span of sizes in this test, hence 4 dB.

I just figured that arguments are pointless, without comparative data. So, get your buddy to print these and try them on a .22. Your data counts too.

I've already concluded similar tests with results being closer to 1.X difference in DB (12-15%) to which I certainly attested perceptible to my aging ears. Plus my friend lives 30~ miles away and is often busy with his family, so it's best if someone who dabbles in both airguns and 3d printing themselves could test these for you.


-Matt
 
My opinion about no more than a 3 dB change was for shooting .22, using a .25 muffler. Very specific. Not just any size hole.

Also the claim that the human ear couldn't detect a *edit* UP TO 3db variance. I think a 8.5 mm exit diameter is similar to what you used for my .25 muffler, so still applies. To quote you. "I design mufflers with a 1 mm per side clearance on the projectile diameter". Which means if you think the 8.5mm muffler here on a .22 cal would make a difference of 4db, than that contradicts such earlier statements, including using a .25 muffler on .22...so thanks for proving my point here.

-Matt
 
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I most certainly was not relying on your participation. Just not excluding it. You seem to prefer argument that rely on quoting authoritative sources, rather than data. You were even trying to quote me to suggest I had changed my opinion. But you missed the context. I want data, not opinion.

I gave data above...you just don't accept it so why would I bother further tests? You want screenshots of my db meters results? I don't prefer argument, I prefer clearing the air.

"So, get your buddy to print these and try them on a .22. Your data counts" Sounds like a demand.

-Matt
 
No, Matt, if you are going to quote me, do it accurately. I said that 3dB is at the threshold where most people can detect a difference in sound level. Not that 3 dB is undetectable.

If you post nonsense on my thread one of two things is going to happen: The mods are going to run you off. Or the thread will disappear.

My apologies, UP to 3db variance.

Also do note "You may challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully."

-Matt
 
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I see no mention of the effects of DB, only clipping? I think no one is disagreeing with misalignment and clipping issues on tighter tolerances subscriber. He made a brief mention here..."Some air guns using small bores and tight tolerances have a high pitched report that irritates me whereas the larger bore gave more of a dull thud, something much more pleasing to the ear" which applies to his designs and his ears.

Also to quote Neil once more.... "Again I can only speak for my own designs and not those used in other LDC's."

I most certainly was not relying on your participation. Just not excluding it. You seem to prefer argument that rely on quoting authoritative sources, rather than data. You were even trying to quote me to suggest I had changed my opinion. But you missed the context. I want data, not opinion.

Plus I thought you wanted data, not opinion?
 
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First is almost done printing...

I have the ubiquitous $20 dB meters that everyone has... I can use that (care to suggest where I place the meter?)

Or I can record and do some analysis in Audacity using @OldSpook 's methodology. (I didn't see where he places the mic, but it shouldn't matter for relative differences. This route also removes the issue with the dB meter hearing the backstop too.

Actually, I'll try both and we'll see if the numbers tell us anything.
 
First is almost done printing...

I have the ubiquitous $20 dB meters that everyone has... I can use that (care to suggest where I place the meter?)

Or I can record and do some analysis in Audacity using @OldSpook 's methodology. (I didn't see where he places the mic, but it shouldn't matter for relative differences. This route also removes the issue with the dB meter hearing the backstop too.

Actually, I'll try both and we'll see if the numbers tell us anything.
3 meters from the muzzle, even and level with it at 3 o'clock. Record the audio or a video as a .wav or a .mov file.
 
One of the many aspects worthy of an organized study is the effect of pellet to LDC bore clearance on muffling effectiveness. There is a common belief that baffle bore size matters a great deal, and that making the bores 1 mm larger than necessary is unacceptably wasteful of suppression capability. The idea with the attached set of LDCs is to enable anyone with a printer to test this premise for themselves.
...
The actual bore diameters are expected to print at 6.5; 7.5 and 8.5 mm, respectively. All baffle bores are the same in any given LDC - there is no taper or step in diameter. The front end has the bore diameter embossed. Hopefully that will show well enough in the prints to distinguish them from each other.

These LDCs are intended for .22 caliber up to 30 FPE. The threads are 1/2-20, and should be usable off the printer.

I predict a spread of 4 dB, smallest to largest bore; for this set of LDCs. But I could be wrong...
...
You do realize that a 4 dB spread represents 251% gain compared to the lowest reading? That is to say if the output for the lowest was 1 watt the output for the highest would be 2.5+ watts.

That's not a significant difference in your eyes?

I don't know about others but my contention has always been that the muzzle port size is more important than the baffle bore size. I just figure if you can build them that tight and get them to shoot you should unless there is some other reason (eg: accuracy) not too.
 
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Matt,

I am no longer going to explain or justify anything to you. If you continue trolling, I will make a case to the mods why you should be banned again. Should be easy, as the basic reasons are the same, each time you have been banned. You annoy people, deliberately. Persistent pernicious trolling behavior.

Be useful, or be gone.

There is no trolling here, first I congratulated you, take the win! Secondly I am offering constructive criticism.
*** Condescending content removed***

-Matt
 
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I may be wrong, but I feel a 4" moderator may sell this test a little short, as moderator length increases to a more common length (6"), the deviation may increase and be more favorable towards the smaller bored version.

-Matt

You are right about this. The more baffles, the greater the effect of difference in bore diameter. My reason for the short length is the risk of clipping near the front with the tight bore. If that happens people may report the tightest version is the loudest.

Besides, believers in tight muffler bores assure us that there will be a significant difference. To be fair, I will make a longer version of this design, if anyone feels cheated; or just interested. The question is, how long? Double?
 
You are right about this. The more baffles, the greater the effect of difference in bore diameter. My reason for the short length is the risk of clipping near the front with the tight bore. If that happens people may report the tightest version is the loudest.

Besides, believers in tight muffler bores assure us that there will be a significant difference. To be fair, I will make a longer version of this design, if anyone feels cheated; or just interested. The question is, how long? Double?

I think 6-6.5"~ is more fair to the tests being a fairly common moderator length and shouldn't result in clipping provided the testers barrel is not out of alignment within its shroud.

-Matt
 
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