.22 LR vs .22 slug

The down sides of 22lr are expense of ammo, noise, and the safe distance behind the target you need to safely use them. The advantages are better accuracy at longer range and normally greater power. The advantages of airguns are cheaper to shoot, quieter, and great accuracy at short range. I use what fits the situation best. I also consider maximum range when choosing which pcp to use. My Caiman X can carry 1200 yards so it doesn't get shot up into trees. I've been using my P35-177 which will only go 400 yards and when that little 10 grain pellet comes down it has lower energy. My PCPs are safer to shoot than my 22lr but there is still a wide range of how far away they might do damage.
 
I think its worth mentioning that a 40gr pellet or 'slug' going 1085ft/s and has a BC of 0.112, will go (the 38 grain Heavy Slugs by H&N in 5.5 mm (.217) feature a ballistic coefficient of 0.112) are going to go the same distance with the same weight so really, stop with the whole "Miles Away" nonsense.
 
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I think its worth mentioning that a 40gr pellet or 'slug' going 1085ft/s and has a BC of 0.112, will go (the 38 grain Heavy Slugs by H&N in 5.5 mm (.217) feature a ballistic coefficient of 0.112) are going to go the same distance with the same weight so really, stop with the whole "Miles Away" nonsense.
What? I dont think the pellet will travel as far as the slug
 
I recently moved out of NY because of many reasons. One of them is constitutional encroachments like that. So many regular tax paying people are moving out of NY they'll only be left with non taxpaying sponges, rich elite and the poor that can't afford to leave. When I moved out of NY, U haul wouldn't rent one way because there was such a disparity in return trips they couldn't get their equipment back. Look I was born, on Long Island, raised a family there and spent all but my last year and half there. I loved the place as a kid and young adult. At 59 all I can say is it's terrible what's happened there. I'm so so glad I'm out. New Yorkers get out if you can.
Sorry you feel that way but, everyone has choices in life and understand. I live very close to the VT boarder in farmland county's that actually spreads out far into Rutland VT to Saratoga County N.Y with lots of woodland, mountains and streams. That means lots of animals to hunt. I am no where's rich just had good opportunity's I took advantage of.
 
I think another way to make firewalkers point is if you hop up a 22 pcp to shoot a slug with the same bc as a 22 LR bullet at the same speed it is going to travel equally far. It is not the propellant that matters it is the bc and velocity. That is 100% true. I don't think it's very practical to make a pcp do this (you won't get many shots) but it has been done. You might also be able to get a LR down to the noise level of an airgun but it would take a monster moderator so I don't see the practicality of that either. Inherently I still think LRs tend to shoot further and noisier but those pushing their pcps up a lot need to remember they can overcome the general tendencies.
 
Sorry you feel that way but, everyone has choices in life and understand. I live very close to the VT boarder in farmland county's that actually spreads out far into Rutland VT to Saratoga County N.Y with lots of woodland, mountains and streams. That means lots of animals to hunt. I am no where's rich just had good opportunity's I took advantage of.
I have a good friend with a 275 acre ranch in Windsor NY. My aunt and cousins live upstate as well. Upstate NY is gorgeous. I love it there. Downstate on the other hand is a toilet. Unfortunately their overwhelming policies ruin the rest of the state. You're still under their unconstitutional laws and you really don't want to compare tax bills.

IMO upstate NY should succeed from downstate NY because they pass laws that aren't considerate of the needs of upstate people. People in Nassau and Suffolk have talked about succession for economic reasons for decades. Upstate people have too for better reasons.

I'm glad you like where you are. I didn't, so I left. If you lived where I lived you'd probably feel the same way. If your happy where you are and the accompanying policies, God bless you. Enjoy.
 
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You might also be able to get a LR down to the noise level of an airgun but it would take a monster moderator so I don't see the practicality of that either. Inherently I still think LRs tend to shoot further and noisier but those pushing their pcps up a lot need to remember they can overcome the general tendencies.

CCI Quiet, Auto Quiet, Suppressor and SV ammo are all very quiet and of course the CCI Quiet ammo is less than most any air rifle when shot from a rifle (not a pistol). Unfortunately CCI Quiet is not the most accurate of their products. I also find CCI Short CB to be plenty quiet. No suppresor needed. The CCI Quiet Segmented ammo is just a pffft and to about 30 yards has plenty of knockdown for rabbits and pests. It is really silent. It is not MOA ammo but it is accurate enough for who and what it was intended for. Actually, for what ever reason, CCI Quiet Segmented shoots accurately from my ancient pre-war Remington Target single shot and with it's long barrel, the old Remington is nearly silent, no clack of the action as in my 1022, just a little pffft. Maybe it is some sort of mind meld but I have shot the Remington so much over my life that I just seem to know where the bullet will go before I pull the trigger as if I will it to be so.

Cost, I dunno. For a feller just starting out, a CZ and a brick of CCI SV is going to be much less than any air rifle that could come close to matching it, much lighter, more power range. And, once we average out the costs of the two, by the time we factor in the pumps, bottles, hoses and the cost of slugs, well, a lot of good .22 ammo could be burned up before drawing even.
 
I had never heard of CCI Quiet ammo or the other ones mentioned so I googled them. Tom Gaylord did a review for Pyramyd Air. He measured 105db for the "Quiet" using a phone app. The other ones were a little noisier. He used a target rifle with a 24 inch barrel. They were similar in noise to a pcp pistol without a moderator. Velocity of the Quiet was a little over 700 fps.

My moderated pcps measure about 85db using my phone app. There are some uncertainties but it appears the "Quiet" ammo can make a 22LR about as Quiet as an unmoderated pcp rifle but it also makes the fpe similar. The ease of moderating pcps still gives them a noise edge in my opinion.
 
I had never heard of CCI Quiet ammo or the other ones mentioned so I googled them. Tom Gaylord did a review for Pyramyd Air. He measured 105db for the "Quiet" using a phone app. The other ones were a little noisier. He used a target rifle with a 24 inch barrel. They were similar in noise to a pcp pistol without a moderator. Velocity of the Quiet was a little over 700 fps.

My moderated pcps measure about 85db using my phone app. There are some uncertainties but it appears the "Quiet" ammo can make a 22LR about as Quiet as an unmoderated pcp rifle but it also makes the fpe similar. The ease of moderating pcps still gives them a noise edge in my opinion.
Phone apps are notoriously inaccurate and not apples to apples. I do not need an app to shoot CCI Quiet right next to my M-Rod to see which is quieter. I will save the suspense, it is the CCI Quiet, at least for me :). Even with a DFL Tanto on my M-Rod the CCI Quiet wins.

Speaking of apples to apples or not. I am shooting the Quiet from a Remington Target Master single shot which has a generous 24 inches of barrel. The energy is around 45 fpe for the 40 grain bullet. The M-Rod .25 is shooting a JSB 34 at around 56 fpe in current tune, so of course it is louder. If I were to back it down to 45 fpe it might be quieter than the Target Master with CCI Quiet or CB caps. However, air rifles make a lot of noise aside from the pellet leaving the barrel, there is also all of the clanking and banging of mechanical hammers running into exhaust valves and springs going boing and what not. So it is a hard comparison to make. The total noise footprint is about equal but very different in nature. Different ears might find one more acceptable than the other. But it would not be fair to compare Quiet at 45 fpe to a .22 air rifle at 28 fpe. Foot pounds to foot pounds is more appropriate.

As to accuracy, Quiet is not benchrest ammo, it is for practical use, pesting, hunting, plinking. It is good enough for who and what it is for. When I see a HOSP out at 50 yards, it is the M-Rod I grab for! It wins the noise vs accuracy Delta with a knockout!
 
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The down sides of 22lr are expense of ammo, noise, and the safe distance behind the target you need to safely use them
A note about 22LR ammo: if I had a dollar for every new 22LR precision or benchrest shooter and finds out you can’t just place an order for a $200 brick of ammo and shoot tiny groups, … well yeah … I could buy a brick of ammo.

Shooting very accurately with either system is expensive and challenging. With rimfire you are endlessly trying to keep good ammo coming and lot testing and sorting the best stuff from the rest. I have not had much experience with slugs but it seems like if you’re working from your own dies and you get it working, you have a much more manageable situation.
 
Phone apps are notoriously inaccurate and not apples to apples. I do not need an app to shoot CCI Quiet right next to my M-Rod to see which is quieter. I will save you the suspense, it is the CCI Quiet. Even with a DFL Tanto on my M-Rod the CCI Quiet wins.
^^^ What he said. Phone apps do not check to see if they overload the front end. Once that happens, you can't compare results because your data is clipped. Clipped data means the information has been removed from the signal. This means you don't know how loud it is anymore, because the loudness information was thrown away by the clipping. The information is irretrievably lost. The app can't have any true idea how loud it was, in the presence of clipping.

It's hard to truly measure airgun (or PB) reports with any fidelity. A simple app can't do it. Not saying a sophisticated app won't work, but good apps involve very special signal processing or expensive data capture equipment or both. I've tried monitoring close range reports with a calibrated audio microphone, and 99.9% of the time, the recorded signal was clipped. You have to move the microphone quite a long distance away, or you have to greatly attenuate the microphone output before data capture. All those things dramatically increase your measurement uncertainty, making it tough to compare calibrated results. You need to religiously follow a lab check list, with zero deviations, to get any hope of repeatable data. Most people won't (or can't) do that, which basically makes their data set incomparable to other collected data.

It's a tough problem to faithfully digitize impulsive sound. The sound has a high dynamic range, which means expensive components are required to capture it with full fidelity. I looked into it, for the purpose of measuring moderator performance, and rapidly found out, it's an expensive proposition, requiring a bit of gear that I just couldn't justify the investment. Even with the equipment, it's really tough to do indoors, with echos off walls, and ceilings, and not all that easy outside either. (Echos off houses, fences, target backstops, whatever.) It requires time gating, and intimate knowledge of your local environment (echo removal). Not saying an ordinary Joe couldn't attempt it, but they'd have to have extraordinary technique to get valid data.

I fully believe @3Crows assessment of the CCI Quiets. Hmm, maybe I should get some for myself, you know for the sake of experimentation.

The human ear is darned good at telling moderate differences between sounds, especially if done in rapid succession.
 
@ JimD “ It is not the propellant that matters it is the bc and velocity”. I beg to differ with you Sir - tell us why then are competitive shooters selecting the highest grade .22 ammo? I will tell you and so will every competitive bench rest shooter; it is the consistency of the rimfire rounds primer which drastically affects the fps resulting a win or loss granted the gun is capable. Regardless of your chosen brand of competition .22lr from lot to lot you will not repetitively achieve the consistency of an outstanding regulator of an airgun! This is not my opinion but a fact that has been proven time and time again. You have absolutely zero control of the amount of priming agent involved in any rimfire round and that Sir is an undeniable fact.

I will go one step further, fully expecting an absolute ton of backlash and I’m good with that, bc is not the “be all end all”. It can most definitely play a part however, bc is not everything.

AirGun Nation is a wealth of information and a venue for like interests to share there experiences with each other & I am doing just that.

My previous post was intentionally cryptic - perhaps too cryptic. Forgive me for not spelling it out and clarifying its specifics and intended meaning.

Not here to pick a fight - simply stating fact. Hopefully we can agree to disagree.
 
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@ JimD “ It is not the propellant that matters it is the bc and velocity”. I beg to differ with you Sir - tell us why then are competitive shooters selecting the highest grade .22 ammo? I will tell you and so will every competitive bench rest shooter; it is the consistency of the rimfire rounds primer which drastically affects the fps resulting a win or loss granted the gun is capable. Regardless of your chosen brand of competition .22lr from lot to lot you will not repetitively achieve the consistency of an outstanding regulator of an airgun! This is not my opinion but a fact that has been proven time and time again. You have absolutely zero control of the amount of priming agent involved in any rimfire round and that Sir is an undeniable fact.

I will go one step further, fully expecting an absolute ton of backlash and I’m good with that, bc is not the “be all end all”. It can most definitely play a part however, bc is not everything.

AirGun Nation is a wealth of information and a venue for like interests to share there experiences with each other & I am doing just that.

My previous post was intentionally cryptic - perhaps too cryptic. Forgive me for not spelling it out and clarifying its specifics and intended meaning.

Not here to pick a fight - simply stating fact. Hopefully we can agree to disagree.
I have no dog in the fight. I think you may have missed JimD's point. In general what propels the projectile doesn't matter. However, that assumes a uniformity in the propellant, which you are pointing out matters a lot to competitive shooters. If you look from 10000 ft it doesn't matter, but if you are looking at a microscopic scale, heck yeah, it matters a lot. Bench rest shooters are looking at every single detail to get an edge, both in PB and air. But what's important may differ for the different "disciplines".

You are both right, but only using your own definitions. I don't really think you are differing that much. But I don't mind being schooled on the subject. At your service.
 
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