Well it depends on your "performance" computation. If you include price of ammo, then 457 slugs are near 10x as expensive as 22LR.
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.22 LR vs .22 slug
- Thread starter honeysuckle
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Well it depends on your "performance" computation. If you include price of ammo, then 457 slugs are near 10x as expensive as 22LR.
What if you cast the 457's? If I was shooting 457 I'd be casting them... I cast 22's as well. Pretty easy.
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It's around a 9:1 weight ratio between a 457 and 22 slug, and we basically pay for lead by weight.
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what was not mentioned is regulator in a PCP rifle can provide a significant accuracy advantage by ensuring consistent shot performance, which is something that rimfire rifles cannot achieve to the same extent due to their reliance on ammunition consistency.
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The combination of a quality regulator and easily adjusted hammer strike can result in very small MV extreme spreads and SD's. However, there is no universal cause and effect relationship in either PB's or AIrguns between the lowest ES and SD and best accuracy.
JackHughs
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So what. You can recover the lead, re-melt and cast again. If you miss a lot, well, that's a different story...
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Okay, but we're bringing in a lot of assumptions. The kind of hunting I do, the lead is almost never recoverable.
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same here , 500ft and anything 600 fps and above you can't shoot in your yard when living in a village.
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I feel the regulator when set at a certain psi will give you an advantage in acracy. I use an inline to help tune my big bores.
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I considered a PCP for months. My HW97k and HW95 are running out of gas past 70 yards and i want to shoot farther. I totaled up a budget and had a long talk with myself on the pros and cons of pellet rifles.
Instead of a PCP and a compressor (etc., etc.) I bought a CZ457 and a Tikka T1x. I couldn't decide on one so I bought both. I have a whopping $1800 bucks into the project and both rifles will land them within MOA with the CCI SV available at Wal Mart for ten cents a pop.
The Tikka is only 37" long and fully dressed with a bipod it's less than 7 lbs. It will smack a shotgun shell at 165 yards almost every time. It's the best darn thing since cookies and milk. The CZ is every bit as accurate and nearly as short and light. I'm not sure which one I like best.
I can carry them in the brush and strap them to a mule and not worry about it. I can go fishing for a week and never worry about air. I can get ammo in any town big enough to support a gas pump. The initial outlay is much less and the cost per shot is comparable to airgun slugs with the same ballistics.
The PCP rifles are cool and shoot lights out. But I just can't justify the cost and complexity. They bridge a very narrow gap between a springer and a centerfire and that gap (for me) is best filled with an accurate rimfire rifle.
Instead of a PCP and a compressor (etc., etc.) I bought a CZ457 and a Tikka T1x. I couldn't decide on one so I bought both. I have a whopping $1800 bucks into the project and both rifles will land them within MOA with the CCI SV available at Wal Mart for ten cents a pop.
The Tikka is only 37" long and fully dressed with a bipod it's less than 7 lbs. It will smack a shotgun shell at 165 yards almost every time. It's the best darn thing since cookies and milk. The CZ is every bit as accurate and nearly as short and light. I'm not sure which one I like best.
I can carry them in the brush and strap them to a mule and not worry about it. I can go fishing for a week and never worry about air. I can get ammo in any town big enough to support a gas pump. The initial outlay is much less and the cost per shot is comparable to airgun slugs with the same ballistics.
The PCP rifles are cool and shoot lights out. But I just can't justify the cost and complexity. They bridge a very narrow gap between a springer and a centerfire and that gap (for me) is best filled with an accurate rimfire rifle.
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The complexity level....or the perceived complexity level when viewed from the outside is also very likely a big reason that PCPs are not attractive to those steeped in Rimfire.
I tend to ignore the complexity of pcp because I'm so used to it. I suppose it can easily seem confusing and maybe overwhelming to someone not accustomed to it.
On that level....Rimfire is very simple.
Buy ammo. If it doesn't shoot well.... Get something different until you are happy.
Mike
I tend to ignore the complexity of pcp because I'm so used to it. I suppose it can easily seem confusing and maybe overwhelming to someone not accustomed to it.
On that level....Rimfire is very simple.
Buy ammo. If it doesn't shoot well.... Get something different until you are happy.
Mike
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If a guy is interested in shooting patterns, matches and precision shooting the PCP would certainly be the choice. If they lived in a suburban environment and/or shot on a range a PCP makes sense. For a hunter that kept it close to home or enjoyed short walks in the woods a PCP would be awesome. For many guys in today's world air rifles make perfect sense...if you can afford the cash outlay and intend to shoot as a hobby.
For a wilderness hunter a PCP is fragile. I couldn't imagine taking a fall with one strapped to a pack or pack animal. On unlimited acreage where a hunt can span several days in country a days drive from a paved road they would be very limited. Yes you could make it work. But the PCP is not ideally suited to most hunting situations.
Then, there are altitude concerns. In many areas a mountain is 500-1000 ft. altitude change. In my area there is a 5000 ft. altitude change between the valleys and the peaks. A simple day hike will account for a mile of altitude difference. That is a big deal with air power. Much less burning a propellant.
Guns are either the objective or a tool to reach your objective. If the gun is the objective a PCP really shines. But if hunting is the objective a PCP has many limitations. They can be easily overcome in developed areas where the shooting takes place within a couple miles of the truck. In areas where the camp is 10 miles from the trailhead they are simply not as efficient as a rimfire or centerfire rifle.
There is an ideal tool for every job. Some jobs the PCP is the best choice. For other jobs a trusty rifle is the better tool.
For a wilderness hunter a PCP is fragile. I couldn't imagine taking a fall with one strapped to a pack or pack animal. On unlimited acreage where a hunt can span several days in country a days drive from a paved road they would be very limited. Yes you could make it work. But the PCP is not ideally suited to most hunting situations.
Then, there are altitude concerns. In many areas a mountain is 500-1000 ft. altitude change. In my area there is a 5000 ft. altitude change between the valleys and the peaks. A simple day hike will account for a mile of altitude difference. That is a big deal with air power. Much less burning a propellant.
Guns are either the objective or a tool to reach your objective. If the gun is the objective a PCP really shines. But if hunting is the objective a PCP has many limitations. They can be easily overcome in developed areas where the shooting takes place within a couple miles of the truck. In areas where the camp is 10 miles from the trailhead they are simply not as efficient as a rimfire or centerfire rifle.
There is an ideal tool for every job. Some jobs the PCP is the best choice. For other jobs a trusty rifle is the better tool.
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I am 100% pro airgun. Haven't shot any of my powder burners in years. Still have em, just don't feel the desire to shoot em. I've also had the pleasure to shoot many of the finest airguns that money can buy, either owned, borrowed for review, or shared by airgun buddies.
Coming from that place of really enjoying airguns and having shot the best of what the airgun industry has to offer....if I had a legitimate need, or hell, even a "want" for a gun that was 75+ fpe and a BC of 0.12+, I'd buy myself a high end rimfire.
All the cool factors for airguns for me are gone when we're talking big fpe. Big fpe is harder to keep quite, less safe, less chill from the perspective of looking down the scope, more expensive ammo, etc. (Price of high BC slugs? Altaros anyone?
)
And then air....big fpe = big air expenditure. And procuring/maintaining HPA sucks. And that's even with the perspective of owning my own tanks and compressors.
Rimfire is simply the path of least resistance for 75+ fpe and BCs better than 0.12.
I'm also not a felon that's restricted to airguns. And I still choose airguns, at least in the arena of enjoying airguns for what they are and not trying to make them what they aren't.
90+ % of my shooting is in the 19-35fpe range. And that's airgunnings bread and butter.
Coming from that place of really enjoying airguns and having shot the best of what the airgun industry has to offer....if I had a legitimate need, or hell, even a "want" for a gun that was 75+ fpe and a BC of 0.12+, I'd buy myself a high end rimfire.
All the cool factors for airguns for me are gone when we're talking big fpe. Big fpe is harder to keep quite, less safe, less chill from the perspective of looking down the scope, more expensive ammo, etc. (Price of high BC slugs? Altaros anyone?
)And then air....big fpe = big air expenditure. And procuring/maintaining HPA sucks. And that's even with the perspective of owning my own tanks and compressors.
Rimfire is simply the path of least resistance for 75+ fpe and BCs better than 0.12.
I'm also not a felon that's restricted to airguns. And I still choose airguns, at least in the arena of enjoying airguns for what they are and not trying to make them what they aren't.
90+ % of my shooting is in the 19-35fpe range. And that's airgunnings bread and butter.
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I got into the higher end airguns at around 16 years old so I could target shoot in my parents backyard and not disturb anyone. I used a .177 FWB 124D for years hunting, pesting and target shooting. I still use airguns , mostly PCP's, for the lower power levels, quietness and ammo cost. I would never try to get 100 fpe out of a .22 cal airgun instead I would grab on of my many .22 rimfires that I can legally own and shoot in my backyard. If I had a Coyote causing problems I would drop it a .223 as long as it was a safe shot or maybe a .22 rimfire if I wanted less power and noise . I don't like wasting air or high ammo cost , so for raccoons and smaller so I stay under 50 fpe with my airguns and as low as 10 fpe for the smaller pests mostly using. 22 cal .
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Well put.
Within their intended purpose you can't beat an airgun. Whether a springer or a PCP they are excellent tools. Taken out of that context they quickly loose their shine.
I love to shoot. I'll shoot anything and enjoy it. As far as shooting is concerned an air rifle is dandy. I love my springers and shoot them daily. A PCP would be even more fun to shoot if I felt I needed more shooting fun.
If adventure is the objective they just don't make sense. I'll carry a rifle 20 miles and never shoot it. I always have a rifle with me in the truck or on the trail. The rifle is part of almost every outdoor activity. For me the PCP would be a burden.
I suppose some guys reasoning is they like to tinker and perfect the rifle. The PCP is ideal for guys who want to dive into that worm hole. Some guys like to dress their rifles up in accessories and gaze at them in the evenings. Others want to shoot giant airguns capable of killing a moose or tiny patterns you need special tools to measure. A PCP scratches those itches and that's simply groovy.
None of those reasons involve power, energy, or ballistic comparisons. I think the decision between an airgun and a rimfire often does not. Its more about legal issues, local laws, places to shoot, cost, utility, etc.
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In my neighborhood you can't shoot any type of air gun that breaks 600 fps and I live out in cow town,lol.
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Very well said, and I also love the challenge of shooting an air gun/ pcp over that of a PB.
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