After a year I finally made some time today n try to cast some bullets, fo my HP condor..many have wrinkles..does the mold was cold..or I think since a use mostly pellets maybe it needs some tin ..?.... thanks for the inputs n advice. 
.223 cast bullets
- Thread starter mercado
- Start date
Shoot44 .. cast are for a condor with a 1-12 twist. 223 barrel..almost al my molds are gas checks ..when I look them it seems like the lead cooled as it was filling the mold..since it was 100% lead because those were all pellets maybe need a 2% tin ..?
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You will need to swag those down to maybe .217". Since they are probably .226 now they may look a little squashed. (When you try them be sure to use full power as they may be hard to get out if they get stuck). For Air Gun use pure lead is a good choice. To prevent wrinkles your mold needs to be hot enough. Aluminum molds heat quick and are easy to use. If used in a PB, even with the wrinkles, they would probably be good plinker bullets.
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More heat in the melt and the mold. Tin will help, but the heat allow should take care of it.
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Mercado - you need more heat if you can preheat mold on hot plate if you no have hot plate
place mold on top of lead pot and heat it up there when your lead is coming to tempeture.
I cast that same mold an the hotter you get it the better.Some tin will help 1% should do better.
place mold on top of lead pot and heat it up there when your lead is coming to tempeture.
I cast that same mold an the hotter you get it the better.Some tin will help 1% should do better.
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Thanks a lot guys..will post the pics of my nex batch..when I have the time to try it again 
...I give this try in my shop n I could help to think in all the work I have ahead n there I was playing with lead...lead by the thermometer was at 800+ next time will heat more the mold..thanks
...I give this try in my shop n I could help to think in all the work I have ahead n there I was playing with lead...lead by the thermometer was at 800+ next time will heat more the mold..thanks Upvote 0
Except for the bullet molds I purchase for my cricket..the rest of my mold collection in .223 n .257 are use but in perfect condition from the old lyman charts some dating 1905.. n still like they live the factory yesterday...I have all molds I was interested to cast from the old charts ..now will start buying the new molds available for the 3 caliber..I have including 308 .. those 2 I started casting you open the molds n the bullets just drop..
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Mercado, I've cast thousands of slugs with the MP Molds 5.52 and 6.35 Boat Tail molds. I've learned a LOT about casting a quality slug. The are some important questions to ask. First of all, a cast slug will never have the consistency in weight and shape like a swagged slug will. I had an expert slug guy give me advice. Shout out to Dale from Varmint Knockers. Stand up guy and all around excellent human being!
1. Are you using pure lead, or an alloy mix. If it's an alloy mix, what is your lead/tin/antimony ratio? In my opinion, pure lead is always the best when casting slugs for an air rifle. It's just a personal preference. I understand that antimony and tin will allow the lead to flow better, but they also significantly increase the hardness. A little bit goes a long way.
2. What heat setting are you using on your Lee lead pot? If you're using pure lead, you don't want to go past 3. Alloy blends can take much hotter temps. But pure lead, NO WAY! It will crystallize on you when it gets too hot. You can tell pure lead because it gets this multicolored rainbow sheen on top when it melts. If it starts to slag up on the surface, and the slag doesn't seem like it's stopping, your pure lead is too hot. Back it down. The slag will not remelt. It's ruined.
3. How are you heating your mold? Buy a cheap electric hot plate from Amazon or Ebay to heat your mold. Regulate the temperature of the mold to come in a few degrees under the temperature that lead melts. Probably in the mid to high 500's (Fahrenheit). You can use a laser thermometer to check the temp. This will ensure wrinkle free castings.
4. Don't water quench your lead slugs. You change the BN hardness by doing this.
That's my advice on getting nice castings. If you have a properly heated mold, and you're using pure lead at the right temperature, there's no reason you can't have gorgeous slugs that come from it.
1. Are you using pure lead, or an alloy mix. If it's an alloy mix, what is your lead/tin/antimony ratio? In my opinion, pure lead is always the best when casting slugs for an air rifle. It's just a personal preference. I understand that antimony and tin will allow the lead to flow better, but they also significantly increase the hardness. A little bit goes a long way.
2. What heat setting are you using on your Lee lead pot? If you're using pure lead, you don't want to go past 3. Alloy blends can take much hotter temps. But pure lead, NO WAY! It will crystallize on you when it gets too hot. You can tell pure lead because it gets this multicolored rainbow sheen on top when it melts. If it starts to slag up on the surface, and the slag doesn't seem like it's stopping, your pure lead is too hot. Back it down. The slag will not remelt. It's ruined.
3. How are you heating your mold? Buy a cheap electric hot plate from Amazon or Ebay to heat your mold. Regulate the temperature of the mold to come in a few degrees under the temperature that lead melts. Probably in the mid to high 500's (Fahrenheit). You can use a laser thermometer to check the temp. This will ensure wrinkle free castings.
4. Don't water quench your lead slugs. You change the BN hardness by doing this.
That's my advice on getting nice castings. If you have a properly heated mold, and you're using pure lead at the right temperature, there's no reason you can't have gorgeous slugs that come from it.
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Trinitymaker...thanks a lot ..the mix was only pure "lead " because I used pellets and some old Nielsen huben slugs..
2 - the heat setting I use was 7 n the temperature keep rising in the 800++ could not find a way to keep it in 700 degrees ... what should be the ideal lead temperature...? Most places said between 700 to 800 ..?
3 - to heat the mold I use a heat blower
It seems that is not enough...will buy the electric hot plate tomorrow..and the laser thermometer..to..there was no place that tells me to heat the mold to as close to a specific temperature...I appreciate that tip a lot .
4 - Q when I size the bullet. 224 for the .223 barrel the slugs were so scraped the the GC was lost I will only keep the GC sized. 225 ...
5 - Q to slug the barrel shroud I used the bullet as cast -- or sized .225 --- or ---.224. ..? Thanks.
2 - the heat setting I use was 7 n the temperature keep rising in the 800++ could not find a way to keep it in 700 degrees ... what should be the ideal lead temperature...? Most places said between 700 to 800 ..?
3 - to heat the mold I use a heat blower
It seems that is not enough...will buy the electric hot plate tomorrow..and the laser thermometer..to..there was no place that tells me to heat the mold to as close to a specific temperature...I appreciate that tip a lot .4 - Q when I size the bullet. 224 for the .223 barrel the slugs were so scraped the the GC was lost I will only keep the GC sized. 225 ...
5 - Q to slug the barrel shroud I used the bullet as cast -- or sized .225 --- or ---.224. ..? Thanks.
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Mercado,
1- What is the land/groove diameter of your barrel? I'm assuming the slug you're using is the 225-51-SP-BA5 mold from NOE bullet molds. I'm just guessing that from the shape of the slug you have pictured. According to the dimensions of the slug on their website, the outer drive bands have a diameter of .225 and an inner diameter of .190. I'm thinking that you shouldn't have to resize your slugs. Even if the groove diameter on your barrel is .223, your slugs will come in at .2248 at the gas check (drive bands). There will be some shrinkage as it cools. If you use pure lead, the lead is very soft. So you can easily seat the slug in the breech on your Condor and push it in with little resistance. Since the largest portion of the cast slug is the drive bands, the surface area is minimal compared to a cylindrical swagged slug. Also, the larger diameter is optimal as it will create a concentric seal in the grooves of the barrel. So there will be zero waster air, and the slug will be the first thing to exit the barrel and not high speed air escaping around it through the grooves which can destabilize it right out of the gate. Condors are POWER HOUSES, so your gun can EASILY push that slug through the barrel with the slug sealing in the grooves.
I bought pure lead ingots from roto metals on Amazon. It's not cheap, but you can cast a thousand slugs from 5 pounds of it. So to me it's worth it. It's VERY soft and perfect for pure lead castings.
2- Is your mold aluminum or brass? Brass is ALWAYS better for longevity and durability. It's much harder and has a higher melting temperature. But either type of metal your mold is made from, always cool it down slowly after you're done casting. When you're done, and you turn off your lead pot, take your hot mold and set it on top of the lead pot. Don't set it in the lead. Just on top. Let it cool down with the hot lead. It will take the lead an hour to cool to the touch. This very slow cooling will prevent any warping of the mold. This is another tip that Dale from Varmint Knockers gave me. This was after I noticed my 6.35 slugs from the MP Molds had noticeable seams where the mold halves came together. He told me I had warped my mold. It's an aluminum mold. Brass is WAY less susceptible to warping, but he told me he even slowly cools his brass molds.
After you get a decent slug from your mold, size it to your barrel. Put that thing in the breech, and get a fiberglass rod and push the slug through. Then you can check the integrity of the GC's. Remember, your lands are probably .218 or .219. So you will se the lead smeared into the GC's. It's ok. This is the nature of the slugs. But the true test will be to just take them out and shoot them. The first 15-20 shots, remove your moderator (if you're using one). That way clipping is a non-issue. If you look like you have tight groups, then put the moderator on and see if they stay tight. Your POI will definitely change with the moderator on. As long as it's not clipping, you're golden. But by shooting without the moderator initially, you can eliminate all doubt that the barrel likes or dislikes the slug.
I pray your barrel likes the slug. I'm also a fan of the AF rifles. I have a modified Condor in .25 with a custom barrel in it (1:15 twist). The barrel LOVES the 38gr cup base AVS slug in .254 diameter. I get sub MOA groups at 100 yards with it. But a barrel either likes a slug or it doesn't. Even if the speed of the slug isn't ideal for the projectile, you can tell if the barrel likes it or not. But those slugs you're casting are BEAUTIFUL and I'm excited for you to perfect the process of casting them. I hope and pray they work for you. I'd LOVE to see what those things do to small game at long range.
If you have any other questions, I'm an open book. I'm by no means an expert. But I've got some experience under my belt, and I've made enough mistakes to learn from them.
Lead: https://www.amazon.com/Whole-Lead-Ingot-99-9-Rotometals/dp/B001QV3JBO/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3MNDWMUEUAVW1&dchild=1&keywords=pure+lead+ingots&qid=1608653560&sprefix=pure+lead+ingfots%2Caps%2C224&sr=8-3
Make sure the lead is 99.9% pure. Just be patient when melting the lead. Clean out your lead pot very well before melting the pure lead. I get it super hot, drain all the lead out, and get a wire wheel attachment for my drill and get all the slag out of it. Then melt the pure lead in it. Just be patient with the melt time. Chop the lead bar up into manageable pieces and put them into the pot. Set the temperature level at 3 and just walk away for 30 minutes. It will be melted by the time you check on it again. Pure lead is very temperamental. So don't over heat it. It's like adding too much salt to a dish. You can always add more, but you can't remove it once it's in there.
I've real lots of your posts. You're a very smart and resourceful guy. I have no doubt you will perfect this process.
Forgot to mention, Nielsen slugs are not always pure lead. He buys his lead in alloy mix sometimes. Not sure if he’s gone back to pure lead wire, but there’s a good chance that his slugs contain some antimony and/or tin. The pellets should be pure lead. But the only way to ensure pure lead is to buy from a reputable source that advertises 99.9% pure lead. You can DEFINITELY tell when you’re using pure lead. Just by the way it looks and reacts when molten.
1- What is the land/groove diameter of your barrel? I'm assuming the slug you're using is the 225-51-SP-BA5 mold from NOE bullet molds. I'm just guessing that from the shape of the slug you have pictured. According to the dimensions of the slug on their website, the outer drive bands have a diameter of .225 and an inner diameter of .190. I'm thinking that you shouldn't have to resize your slugs. Even if the groove diameter on your barrel is .223, your slugs will come in at .2248 at the gas check (drive bands). There will be some shrinkage as it cools. If you use pure lead, the lead is very soft. So you can easily seat the slug in the breech on your Condor and push it in with little resistance. Since the largest portion of the cast slug is the drive bands, the surface area is minimal compared to a cylindrical swagged slug. Also, the larger diameter is optimal as it will create a concentric seal in the grooves of the barrel. So there will be zero waster air, and the slug will be the first thing to exit the barrel and not high speed air escaping around it through the grooves which can destabilize it right out of the gate. Condors are POWER HOUSES, so your gun can EASILY push that slug through the barrel with the slug sealing in the grooves.
I bought pure lead ingots from roto metals on Amazon. It's not cheap, but you can cast a thousand slugs from 5 pounds of it. So to me it's worth it. It's VERY soft and perfect for pure lead castings.
2- Is your mold aluminum or brass? Brass is ALWAYS better for longevity and durability. It's much harder and has a higher melting temperature. But either type of metal your mold is made from, always cool it down slowly after you're done casting. When you're done, and you turn off your lead pot, take your hot mold and set it on top of the lead pot. Don't set it in the lead. Just on top. Let it cool down with the hot lead. It will take the lead an hour to cool to the touch. This very slow cooling will prevent any warping of the mold. This is another tip that Dale from Varmint Knockers gave me. This was after I noticed my 6.35 slugs from the MP Molds had noticeable seams where the mold halves came together. He told me I had warped my mold. It's an aluminum mold. Brass is WAY less susceptible to warping, but he told me he even slowly cools his brass molds.
After you get a decent slug from your mold, size it to your barrel. Put that thing in the breech, and get a fiberglass rod and push the slug through. Then you can check the integrity of the GC's. Remember, your lands are probably .218 or .219. So you will se the lead smeared into the GC's. It's ok. This is the nature of the slugs. But the true test will be to just take them out and shoot them. The first 15-20 shots, remove your moderator (if you're using one). That way clipping is a non-issue. If you look like you have tight groups, then put the moderator on and see if they stay tight. Your POI will definitely change with the moderator on. As long as it's not clipping, you're golden. But by shooting without the moderator initially, you can eliminate all doubt that the barrel likes or dislikes the slug.
I pray your barrel likes the slug. I'm also a fan of the AF rifles. I have a modified Condor in .25 with a custom barrel in it (1:15 twist). The barrel LOVES the 38gr cup base AVS slug in .254 diameter. I get sub MOA groups at 100 yards with it. But a barrel either likes a slug or it doesn't. Even if the speed of the slug isn't ideal for the projectile, you can tell if the barrel likes it or not. But those slugs you're casting are BEAUTIFUL and I'm excited for you to perfect the process of casting them. I hope and pray they work for you. I'd LOVE to see what those things do to small game at long range.
If you have any other questions, I'm an open book. I'm by no means an expert. But I've got some experience under my belt, and I've made enough mistakes to learn from them.
Lead: https://www.amazon.com/Whole-Lead-Ingot-99-9-Rotometals/dp/B001QV3JBO/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3MNDWMUEUAVW1&dchild=1&keywords=pure+lead+ingots&qid=1608653560&sprefix=pure+lead+ingfots%2Caps%2C224&sr=8-3
Make sure the lead is 99.9% pure. Just be patient when melting the lead. Clean out your lead pot very well before melting the pure lead. I get it super hot, drain all the lead out, and get a wire wheel attachment for my drill and get all the slag out of it. Then melt the pure lead in it. Just be patient with the melt time. Chop the lead bar up into manageable pieces and put them into the pot. Set the temperature level at 3 and just walk away for 30 minutes. It will be melted by the time you check on it again. Pure lead is very temperamental. So don't over heat it. It's like adding too much salt to a dish. You can always add more, but you can't remove it once it's in there.
I've real lots of your posts. You're a very smart and resourceful guy. I have no doubt you will perfect this process.
Forgot to mention, Nielsen slugs are not always pure lead. He buys his lead in alloy mix sometimes. Not sure if he’s gone back to pure lead wire, but there’s a good chance that his slugs contain some antimony and/or tin. The pellets should be pure lead. But the only way to ensure pure lead is to buy from a reputable source that advertises 99.9% pure lead. You can DEFINITELY tell when you’re using pure lead. Just by the way it looks and reacts when molten.
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Thanks..for all the advice greatly appreciated... that condor has a tj 1-12 twist..bore 219 grove .223 -- 30" with a Doug valve , spring n hammer... all my 38 molds are iron except 1 brass n 1 aluminum .. most of them are .225 and .257 -- 5 or 6 in 308 -- all 30 years + old -- that Spitzer is a 4 cavity Lyman 225-450 .. in .225 I managed to collect molds from 35g to 61g all iron except a Lee battor mold .. I have another barrel in .224 but for that one looking for a magazine platform for a build....been working a lot will try tomorrow to cast another rare lyman Spitzer in 60g n will post the pics...thanks
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I work on this 2 today..I'm going to need a pid .. lead temperature is all over the place..the first is .257 from BBM-iron single cavity --- the second Lyman 228-367 
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They are getting better. Is that I was refusing to clean the molds with soap n water because of the rust since I live close to the sea . But I cleaned it the interior today and it made a great difference between this batch and the last one..the 60g still have some minor issues but the 55g came out great..I really enjoy casting n find new mold to use.
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This is how bidding at Ebay for .223 n .257 bullet molds .it goes..crazy..thanks God I purchase mine before..now to many people want vintage molds..n price skyrockets.
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